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Weekend Open Thread Dada Party!

Schampa wulla wussa olobo!

Welcome to the Weekend Open Thread Dada Party. Talk about whatever you want. And don’t worry if some of the words you use aren’t actual words. The Dadaists didn’t care about that sort of thing. Blago bung, blago bung. Bosso Fataka!

Click here or here to hear Kurt Schwitters read some of  his Dadaist poetry. For more on this poem, see here.

Enjoy! Or, as Hugo Ball might have put it, ba – umf.

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Pecunium
9 years ago

re tattoos, I know what I want, I just have to find someone who can do the art.

I want a PNW style of openwork abstracty black; or a Raven, which I want on my right shoulder, where I can just sort of see it, if I look.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Not or, “of” a raven.

Nobby
Nobby
9 years ago

@ithiliana Why did you loath it, may I ask? Sorry if I’m being annoying, just trying to understand my own feelings on the book 🙂

@Tabby No worries! And yeah, I agree with the sucked in feeling. The ending threw me, though, and part of that was having seen the musical first. I got the B&N nice leather-bound Wicked/Son of a Witch combo, though, so I’m going to start on ‘Son’ in a bit.

@amandajane If you liked the music it’s probably safe to assume you’d like the musical, I think. As I said that plot is pretty radically different from the book.

amandajane5
amandajane5
9 years ago

My question is which of our resident MRA trolls would be Ruggedo. NWOSlave because he keeps digging himself bigger and bigger holes? I kind of think of MRAL as Kiki Aru from The Magic of Oz, just a Munchkin who’s gotten into things over his head.

I’m trying to think of who David would be – I almost think post-getting brains Scarecrow, who rules his own country, though I don’t know how he’d feel about living in a giant golden corn cob.

It occurs to me that I can actually probably read the ones I couldn’t find as a child online nowadays – I know that the original Wizzar Gaboz is in the public domain now. Hmm.

katz
9 years ago

I have a triquetra tattoo on my left shoulder. If anyone is in the LA area, the people at Shogun Tattoo are really nice! Pete did mine.

(For real, people who do one less-conservative thing are likely to also do other less-conservative things, so yes, there will be an above-average intersection of feminism and tattoos.)

ithiliana
9 years ago

Nobby: Not in the least annoying–I love talking about books and why I like or love them–less often why I loathe them (meaning, that it’s rare that I totally loathe a book–I may get bored and stop reading becase I cannot care about the characters or even remember who they are from day to day, but true loathing? Comes seldom). But two warnings: it’s gonna be long!

And, it’s all about my response which means that I’m going to talk more about me than the book. I’m not making any judgements about the work’s quality (you talk about yoru response as well, so I know you’re thinking in the same way I am, but for anybody who wanders through and confused “what I feel about a book” with “quality of the book, because they’re two very different things).

And I’d love to hear you talk about your response!

I checked–it came out in 1995, and I bought it first thing, so that was sixteen years ago! I read it to the end, but I can actually remember few of the specifics. This is what I recall, hazily: Elphaba at school? Sister of Glinda? The Wizard as sort of totalitarian dictator, and a sort of Orwellian enforcement of the “happy” surface of Oz (which is sort of parallel to Braum’s version of it?) Elphaba becomes an activist–a revolutionary?

See, I first began reading the Oz books when I was 5–in 1960. It was hard to find copies of them in bookstores (and there were no bookstores in my hometown–we had to drive 90 miles to get to onel). The library had a shelf full–I can still remember them. Green buckram covers (no pictures), gold faded embossed letters for title and author. That wonderful OLD BOOK smell–the pages were slightly ‘tan’ from age. And during the 1950s/60s, there were concerted efforts by educators, and psychologsts, against Oz, and letting chldren read them. Fantasy was BAD for chldren. And Oz was a communist country.

I herad this from the bookstore clerks when we asked about them (we found some in used bookstores–I have some copies that have the original hard back covers and are antiques nowadays!), and from SOME of the librarians (remember this was decades ago when professional standards for librarians, especially those in small towns, were different).

Hey, there’s an Oz wiki–I found this while searching for some outside evidence of what I remembered:

http://thewizardofoz.info/wiki/About_the_Oz_Books#Have_the_Oz_books_ever_been_banned.2C_edited.2C_or_censored.3F

So there were adults arguing about the evils of Oz, and that really really pissed me off (and as little kid in era where children were supposed to be seen and not heard, I could not argue with them). Luckily my parents were all about the reading is good, and we’ll talk about books, and see what we think. For a while, when I was having really horrible medical procedures involving lots of pain and only local anaesthetic, my reward for getting through a session (we had to go 90 miles to get to better doctors as well as bookstores) was a new Oz book (when they started being reprinted in a sort of sturdy paperback version). Oz helped me through that misery. Oz, especially the female characters, the talking animals (I LOVE talking animal books), and the various fantastic beings, was where I escaped from the pain of chronic illness (some sort of weird compromised immune system plus other stuff) and from pain of bullying by classmates who didn’t like the weird sickly four eyed bookworm who compounted her sins by being a teacher’s pet (I loved my teachers–the ones who let me talk about books anyway).

Nowadays, as a more critical reader, I can see the racist imagery (some info on the wiki talks about some versions being edited especially through removing illustrations). And while I kept my Oz books, I didn’t read them much for some years–recently started rereading as i’m considering a sort of queer transofmrative work of my own, heh heh heh.

But Maguire’s book–all I can say is that I felt like something I loved was being hammered for no good reason–I felt the book used characters to make a point that could have been made many other ways–that he’d appropriated the Oz material beause he could, and because it would guarantee a certain audience and popularity (I feel the same way about the Jane Austin/zombie books by the way). I interpreted the tone of the book as mean spirited and nasty — more like scribbilng rude graffitts over someone else’s work.

Nowadays , as someone who has been immersed in online media fandom since 2003, I’d point out how there’s a pattern of men doing transformative works on material in the public domain for profit to great acclaim while women fans who do transformative works on a variety of texts (some in public domain, some not) for love rather than profit are routinely denigated in multiple ways. But that would not have applied in 1995 of course.

I read it to the end because it might have changed–but I felt no differently, and donated the book to our English honors group who raises money through book sales.

Does that make any sense (to anybody but me?)

ithiliana
9 years ago

We could probably cast all the gnomes as MRA/MGOTW because as far as I know, there are no female Gnomes (I never thought about that before); they’re presented as operating off sort of a group think, i.e. the leader says march against Oz, and they do!

Plus, think how handy it would be to get rid of them with just a dozen eggs!

(I love Billina! LOVE LOVE LOVE her. A queer chicken if ever ther was one).

Victoria von Syrus
Victoria von Syrus
9 years ago

@ Elizabeth:

Thank you kindly, though I have absolutely no idea when I will next be anywhere near Tempe. I go to Phoenix semi-often to visit extended family, though, and I sometimes need an escape from all the Mormons.

aMiRA
aMiRA
9 years ago

Stop jacking off about how excited you are that Scott Adams has finally noticed you.

amandajane5
amandajane5
9 years ago

I love Billina too! And Scraps. And Polychrome, the rainbow’s daughter. And Betsy. And Ozma. And Glinda. No wonder I loved these books so much as a kid – so many strong female characters! The racism is very blatant, but mostly just a sign of the times.

ithiliana
9 years ago

POLCHROME! OMG YES!

She’s Incredible.

And yes to the female characters – I admit to a sneaking fondness even for General Jiinjur who conquered Oz to get pretty jewellery, and get to eat chocolates adn lie around reading, while the men do all the housework.

heh heh heh

ithiliana
9 years ago

David: re Scott’s response. I’ve said it many times online, there should be laws against people misusing analogies when they do not understand how they are supposed to work rhetorically (and how a whole argument cannot in fact be supported by an analogy).

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
9 years ago

hit me up on LibraryThing next time you are out here.

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

I have my first therapy appointment Monday. I’m not trying to get people to talk about it, or make this thread all about me. But I wanted to share that.

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

I probably won’t be posting much the next few weeks, because therapy will eat up what little free time I had to comment here.

amandajane5
amandajane5
9 years ago

Just a word of advice, MRAL, therapy doesn’t work instantly, it will likely take a great deal of patience and trust-building before you start feeling results. Don’t let this discourage you.

Victoria von Syrus
Victoria von Syrus
9 years ago

I second what Amanda says.

I hope it helps.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx134/ami_angelwings/Magyc%20Cards/KristinMistressofHounds.jpg

There’s Kristin’s card 😀

I was gonna say KristinMH but I realized that Mistress of Hounds was alrdy MH so it worked out so great xD

Doctress Julia
9 years ago

Hody hody depravody.

dreamhouse
dreamhouse
9 years ago

Well it’s Sunday afternoon where I am and I’ve had a lovely weekend. I saw a fashion show put on by some fantastic trans women, played soccer and was generally kick-arse (except for an embarrassing own goal), had dinner with some girlfriends and got quite drunk, met up with my very handsome crush and took him back to my place for the first time, and had a delicious breakfast of scrambled eggs this morning! I wonder what the rest of the weekend will hold. The only bad point was that I didn’t get around to writing any job applications…

KristinMH
9 years ago

Ami: OMG OMG OMG OMG OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

Also XD about a million times! I love it!

Now if only it worked to get my actual hounds to obey me….

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Spearhafoc
9 years ago

Apropos of nothing:

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Re: Wicked–got about 50 pages in and just couldn’t do it, which is unusual because I can power through just about anything. It just didn’t engage me at all.

I’m not a feminist either. Just had my second sitting for the piece on my left bicep, which based off of one of Ando Hiroshige’s woodcuts. It’ll be finished in August, and I highly recommend Southside Tattoo in Austin. This is piece #6, and it may extend across my collarbone to the right bicep, I haven’t decided.

PFAE, was it you who wanted the raven in PNW style? Bart, the owner of Southside, specializes in that style.

darksidecat
darksidecat
9 years ago

Since you are all sadists and sexual deviants, here’s a few treats for you

Pecunium
9 years ago

MRAL: good luck. It’s hard. The hardest part (at first) is talking about stuff.

Pecunium
9 years ago

hellkell it was me, and I’m not travelling 2,500 miles to get a tattoo, not least because it would require several trips because of just what it is I want to have done.

Raven is an odd-duck in the display arts, and what I want is a somewhat synergistic/synthetic/syncretic piece, so the design is going to take some time/doing as well as the inking session.

Alex
9 years ago

My boyfriend of six years (a quarter of my life) just broke up with me last night, and I’m alone for the rest of the weekend with few, if any, people to talk to.

Much less depressing is that I’m raising black swallowtail caterpillars, and one of them has pupated. 😀

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

Alex! I’m so so so sorry. That sucks.

I’m happy about the caterpillar though! Will it be a pretty butterfly? I don’t know what a black swallowtail looks like. Or how one raises caterpillars. That sounds pretty interesting.

Breakups blow.

Snowy
Snowy
9 years ago

Oh no, Alex! That sucks. But great news about the caterpillars what will you do with them when they turn into butterflies? Can you keep them in the house? I’ve never had a pet caterpillar before.

Alex
9 years ago

The butterflies are big and mostly black. The females have more black and small yellow spots as well as blue around the edge of the wings and red eye-spots. The males have more yellow, almost stripes, and also have the blue and red parts; I think they’re slightly smaller too, but I haven’t seen them side by side. I always release them when they become butterflies, and I make sure to get photos before they take off. Actually, the butterfly shown on my blog is one of the females. Black swallowtail caterpillars eat the leaves and flowers of all members of the carrot family: dill, fennel, parsley, Queen Anne’s lace, coriander, etc.

Yeah, he wants to fix his self esteem issues, which I’ve been helping him with for the duration of our relationship. Oh well. I’m twenty-three, so I still have a chance to ride the legendary alpha cock carousel. I just hope he fixes his shit soon really.

Johnny Pez
9 years ago

Very sorry to hear that, Alex. I think the best way to deal with it is to find a feminist blog and post a series of long, angry rants about how women control the world and men are suffering terrible oppression at their hands. I’ve noticed that some people use this method to dull the pain of their existence.

Of course, you have resources they lack, such as a functioning brain, so you’ll have other options open to you.

Johnny Pez
9 years ago
Snowy
Snowy
9 years ago

Woah, pretty.

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

Oh! I’ve seen your blog before, Alex. That’s a gorgeous iridescent butterfly.

You’re young, and you deserve to be with someone who has his shit together, so I hope he figures things out quickly. Lord knows that one can spend one’s life working on one’s self esteem. I’ve spent the past million and a half years doing it, anyway, and I’m still not there. ANYWAY, good luck to the both of you, and may it work out for the best in every way. It hurts to have that unexpected emptiness thrust onto you.

Alex
9 years ago

Thanks, Bee. I mean it.

Johnny Pezz, lol Shouldn’t I actually go to an MRA blog and instead post a series of long angry rants about alpha men abusing their alpha powers and forcing women to invest in long term relationships where they help them with their shit and then those EVIL EVIL ALPHA ASSHOLE COCKS run off? lol (Note: that would be a very unfair characterization of what happened, but I suspect a lot of MRAs unfairly characterize a lot of their relationships.)

briget
briget
9 years ago

hey MRAL,
I’ve been in therapy since january. It’s a hellacious process and it often makes you feel worse before you start feeling better, but you’ll start noticing the changes fairly quickly. If you feel like you need some support and someone to unpack your therapy sessions to, my email is rmanning621@gmail.com. I’ve found that for me talking about what happened in therapy is helpful and gets me over the slump that it often leaves me in. Anyway good luck, I hope they go well

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
9 years ago

Since it is all about me this weekend…I got to my hotel here in Anaheim and the room number is 627…the same number of my birthday Monday. Plus 13 had flowers waiting for me. Yay!

Johnny Pez
9 years ago

Alex, that would make too much sense — way more than the MRAs make here. I think the proper way to troll an MRA blog would be to tell them that all their worst fears are absolutely 100% true. Women do control the world, 20% of the men do get all the action, yadda yadda yadda. That sounds like a lot more fun.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

*hug hug hug hug hug Alex* I’m so so so sry 🙁 I’m here if you need to talk… and if you need to find me on IM or something (leave me a msg on my blog w/ your IM and I’ll contact you :3 )

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

I just got back from a friend’s birthday bash and it was a ton of fun xD We went to 2 clubs, saw a drag show at one, and danced a ton xD I got up on the stage at one point! XD They were queer clubs… so it occurred to me during it, this is like NWO hell xD Gay ppl, gay ppl making out… lesbians.. trans ppl… drag shows! sacre bleu! xD

Some of them were prolly Jewish too >_>;; And feminists!

Johnny Pez
9 years ago

Some of them were prolly Jewish too

It has to be a certified Rothchilds or it doesn’t count.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

Well he’d have to ask them their direct lineage xD

Some might have been bankers also! Gay feminist drag bankers! xD

(sry I’m still on a massive high from tonight xD (figuratively, not actually xD )

Johnny Pez
9 years ago

Really, just being Canadian ought to be enough to blow Slavey’s fuses. After all, you guys are practically Commies. Gay feminist commie hosehead bankers in drag.

dreamhouse
dreamhouse
9 years ago

Alex, I’m really sorry to read about you break up. Break ups have a unique way of getting every part of your being and basically being soul crushing. Be really kind to yourself over the next few weeks and don’t worry or be hard on yourself if you find that you’re not really coping. I broke up with my partner of 5.5 years about 18 months ago (at the age of 22) and it was hard, but it got easier with time. What really helped was that I had some fantastic future plans and was forced to get out and do things because I was in a new town far from my family and friends. At the time I hated it, but looking back I think it was really good.

In other weekend news, I forgot to mention that I experienced probably the worst negging (if it even counts as that) in my life so far. A guy I’ve seen around a bit and I thought I might be interested in chatted to me and told me that I’m very pretty and lovely, but I should be careful because I’m too fat for my ankles and because I’m too heavy for them to support I’ll probably break an ankle one day. He also told me that I probably eat too much and sleep to much (he doesn’t even know my eating and sleeping habits) and that it’s a shame because I’m so pretty and nice. Then he asked me if I wanted to kiss him. I laughed and laughed at how stupid it was and left. He was confused about why I didn’t want to kiss him. Jerk.

Ion
Ion
9 years ago

That’s not negging, he was just an idiot.

A neghit is not supposed to be insulting. It’s a small tease of the kind you’d say to your kid sister or a good friend. It works on typically beautiful, popular girls who are used to men complimenting and fawning over them daily – with an all-too-obvious purpose. Personally I think being confident of yourself and not pedestalizing anyone is better, but it’s a useful stepping stone for socially awkward guys on the way there.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@Ion:

“It’s a small tease of the kind you’d say to your kid sister or a good friend.”

This small tease is supposed to make a woman interested in you sexually, yes? Why exactly would you use it on your kid sister?