Good news, ladies and manginas: Apparently some MRAs don’t think it’s time to go out and start shooting people. At least not quite yet.
Some background: In recent days numerous MRAs have taken up the cause of a man named Thomas Ball – who burned himself to death outside a courthouse in Keane, New Hampshire in a protest against what he saw as unfair treatment in family court. Ferdinand Bardamu of In Male Fide has declared him “a martyr for the cause of men’s rights, a casualty of feminism’s stripping one half of the population of their humanity.”
Before killing himself, Ball wrote a long manifesto outlining his grievances and suggesting that the time had come for men “to start burning down police stations and courthouses,” describing the inhabitants of such buildings as “[c]ollaborators who are no different than the Vichy of France or the Quislings of Norway during the Second World War … So burn them out. “ (He offered specific advice on how best to do this, including tips on how to select the proper bottles to use for Molotov cocktails.)
All this has inspired some in the MRA to start talking ominously about violence. On The Spearhead, W.F. Price has responded to this talk with a piece suggesting that the time isn’t quite right for the MRAs of the world to take up armed struggle. Not just yet, anyway. As he puts it:
It is never a good idea to pick up a gun and start shooting to address some vaguely defined injustice — that is savagery. Before the American Revolution, for example, patriots took pains to spell out a long list of grievances that justified rebellion. …
We have to make our own lists, air our grievances, and give the state the opportunity to redress them. … Before anyone resorts to the same methods the state uses against us, we must put every reasonable effort into working with the law and the political system we have. Because this effort is still in its infancy, any calls for armed resistance are entirely premature and counterproductive, and shouldn’t be taken seriously.
Obviously, the flip side of this argument for delay is a justification for killing people if these “grievances” aren’t dealt with in the way that those in the MRA would like. Price’s reference to the American Revolution is an interesting one, because of course the central issue of that struggle was, you know, taxation without representation. The colonists couldn’t vote out the king if they didn’t like his policies. In case anyone has forgotten: we actually do have the vote now, which was kind of the whole point in the first place.
Of course, many of Price’s readers are a bit more impatient than he is. In a comment that drew (last I checked) more than 40 upvotes and only two dissenting downvote, Taqman took issue with Price’s call to delay the armed struggle:
Tell that to men who are facing imminent imprisonment for failure to pay child support.
They don’t have the luxury of time and can’t wait a couple of decades for the manginas of the world to wake up and decide that a gentlemanly form of armed resistance is now acceptable.
The ironically named Firepower, meanwhile, took a little swipe at Ball’s own actions, but didn’t challenge his advice for the rest of the men of the world:
What IS crazy is having to point out that setting YOURSELF on fire is a ridiculous way to “win” anything.
Set your enemies on fire. To even have to remind this questions the long term chances of victory for such a pathetic lot.
Jean Valjean suggested that political action was pointless — due to all those damned women who vote:
No amount of “stoic logic” will make politicians see our point of view.
Politicians are in the business of getting re-elected rather than the business of good governance. So long as women are the majority there will only be tyranny of the majority.
Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) — you knew we were getting to him, right? — expressed his profound disappointment that more Spearheaders weren’t willing to embrace a violent solution:
Gee you guys are whimps and tiptoe around the ‘use of force’ like freaking ballet dancers. Are you so scared to speak about this when it is CLEAR the guvment LOVES using force against you and lots of other people too?
And he made the argument personal, explicitly denouncing, by name, the judge he claimed had “criminally abused” him with his rulings:
Judge [name redacted’s] life is now in my hands. He lives by my consent and my consent alone. …
And, like Ball, he declared judges to be essentially treasonous:
These judges pretended to be your servants. They are evil, evil people who deserve the kind of treatment reserved for those who commit treason.
There is more to Nolan’s comment(s) than that, but to get into it would require going down the rabbit-hole into his particular brand of crackpottery, which seems to involve him setting up his own courts to try judges he doesn’t like. (I frankly don’t understand his belief system and don’t care to.)
Now, it should be noted that a few Spearheaders actually objected to Nolan’s violent talk. But the last I checked, the comment I just quoted had more upvotes than downvotes. W.F. Price took more flak for suggesting men wait a little longer before taking up arms than Nolan did for, well, you saw what he wrote. That tells you a lot about The Spearhead, I think.
EDIT: Added quote from Ferdinand Bardamu; removed similar quote from The Spearhead.
Bee – I think there’s an “if yes” omitted somewhere in the survey, so it’s 80% of people who answered yes to question 1 or 2.
Which means that it isn’t 1 in 10 Americans, nor even 1 in 10 survey respondents. It’s 1 in 10 of people who answered yes to question 2.
So that’s 1.5%, even before the obvious self-selection and dishonesty problems.
Perv “Women’s abuse of children doesn’t somehow negate what Ball did. It doesn’t make it fair.”
I never said it did and never would, I was asked what I thought we should do about child abuse earlier and I said that we should go after female child abusers because they are protected by various forces in society (see feminism for one of those forces) and I said that we should go after false accusing women more to free up the system for genuine victims, that’s all.
Why are feminists making all of this stuff up and lying again? o_O;;
@Eoghan,
(Sigh) Women are also more likely to be the primary caretaker for their kids. It’s hard to commit child abuse it you’re not with your kids. Now, if you had some stats on the prevalence of abuse as a function of time spent with the children, then that might carry some weight.
@Captain Bathrobe I’ll do it for him
http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx134/ami_angelwings/Magyc%20Cards/DenialofFacts.jpg
xD
Can someone remind me how we got to false-accusing women and abusive women from a single, solitary case of confessed child abuse by a man?
(Through the lens of “first, assume women are more evil and do more evil than men. second, find proof!” Oh, I’m NWOing again. Somebody stop me. Not you, Eoghan.)
Eoghan/Middle of the Road: You’re completely misrepresenting my question and being either obtuse or intentionally disingenuous. I didn’t ask what we should do about child abuse. I asked how the system should deal with allegations of child abuse.
How should our system deal with allegations of child abuse?
@Nobinayamu:
It’s Eoghan. He’s basically admitted it by responding to the name. As such, it isn’t surprising he is misrepresenting your question. He has a pet topic, one he is quite wrong about, and he’ll do anything to draw attention to it. That’s how, Holly (or should I say Perv ^__^ ).
Am I the only one who read the manifesto and thought, “She called the cops on your ass for BUSTING OPEN YOUR DAUGHTER’S LIP – good for her!”
But she licked him! LICKED him!
In all seriousness, these hyperbolic calls to violence sadden me. It doesn’t matter if 99% of these assholes are just talking big to pump their pathetic selves up; all it takes is one unbalanced, depression-prone guy who can’t tell reality from the online roleplaying game the rest of the MRAs are playing.
One of my best friends works in child support services. It is not a fun job. Last year his building was evacuated because some enraged father went in with a gun, threatening to kill the judge who wouldn’t give him custody. You know what’s not a good way to convince people you’d be a responsible childcare provider? Yeah.
And Eoghan’s idea of “hands-on parenting” is slapping a four-year-old until her face splits open because she briefly irritated you. That, plus all the threats of violence, more or less explains why the MRA guys haven’t made much headway on child custody.
I don’t know how the system should deal with child abuse, I just know that feminist and traditional ideologies can give women a free pass and that fewer alse allegations would free up more time to deal wth genuine victims. Two good suggestions there I think.
@Eoghan,
“(Sigh) Women are also more likely to be the primary caretaker for their kids. It’s hard to commit child abuse it you’re not with your kids. Now, if you had some stats on the prevalence of abuse as a function of time spent with the children, then that might carry some weight.”
Sigh, child abuse apologist hey?
I wasn’t playing the whos the bad gender game, thats a feminist game and you shouldn’t reduce child abuse to to that.
Women do the most child care and so the most abuse, therefore women have been breading the majority of future abusive adults into the system, therefore we should be targeting women instead of making excuses for them. See?
Eoghan – What does it mean to “target” women? I know you don’t mean “take up arms against them” (though that IS the original topic of the post!). Does it mean we should take children away from women and give them to men? (which would not actually be productive unless men are less abusive AS A PERCENTAGE OF TIME SPENT WITH THEIR CHILDREN, which is data that I at least don’t have).
If anybody, anywhere, is arguing that allegations of child abuse against women should be dismissed or not taken seriously: I totally disagree with and condemn this person, whoever the hell they are.
God, it’s REALLY too bad that “Highly Unreliable Survey Says As Many As 1.5 people out of 100 May Be Falsely Accused” doesn’t have the emotional kick of “1 out of 10 Falsely Accused!”
REALLY, REALLY too bad.
@Eoghan:
“I wasn’t playing the whos the bad gender game, thats a feminist game and you shouldn’t reduce child abuse to to that.”
“we should be targeting women instead of making excuses for them.”
I mean really.. Are you going to make it this easy?
Women do not receive a “free-pass” when it comes to child abuse. Anyone who has spent more than a casual conversation with a social worker or pediatrician knows this. The topic of false allegations is, in this case, a red herring. The system has to deal with allegations of child abuse even if they subsequently prove false. It’s a nice attempt at a diversionary tactic but has nothing to do with the question asked.
Women and men are capable of abusing children. Allegations of child abuse can stem from either parent, a relative, a doctor, a teacher, a social worker, etc.
Targeting women, or men, outside of documented allegations is an absurd and reductionist “solution” to the serious issue of child abuse. I’m presuming, of course, that you actually give a shit about abused children. And if you give a shit about abused children and you want more women to be actively prosecuted for being the majority of perpetrators in cases of abuse and neglect then, please, give the question some serious thought.
What should the system do with allegations of child abuse? The system made a decision in the case of Tom Ball and you seem to disagree with that decision. What would have been the better decision?
“And [Eoghan’s] idea of “hands-on parenting” is slapping a four-year-old until her face splits open because she briefly irritated you. That, plus all the threats of violence, more or less explains why the MRA guys haven’t made much headway on child custody.”
See the false allegation that she just made?
I said that the fact that he was putting her to bed indicated that he was involved in hands on parenting and the fact that the child was repeatedly licking him and would stop indicated that she wasn’t afraid of him, so going by those parts of the story, he doesnt look like a “monster” but rather someone that lost control. That said, we dont really know.
I did not say that slapping a child is hands on parenting.
And see how the false allegation was extended to every man that advocates for mens rights?
We live in a false accusation culture propagated by feminists, who run another abuse culture by constantly denying the existence of, playing down and excusing women that abuse.
Eoghan – Okay, not every time someone says “I’m suspicious of men who deny allegations of abuse” is, itself, an allegation.
I thought we were talking about formal, legal accusations here. Not every time someone says–in a nonbinding and anonymous social environment–that someone’s behavior is a little bit suspicious to them.
If that’s an allegation, I bet it has happened to 1 out of 10 Americans.
@Eoghan:
You really should read sources people give you before dismissing them…
“MYTH 10: If a child demonstrates no fear or aversion to a parent, then there is no reason not to award unsupervised contact or custody.
FACT: Children can experience “traumatic bonding” with a parent who abuses the child or their other parent, forming unusually strong but unhealthy ties to a batterer as a survival technique (often referred to as “Stockholm Syndrome”).”
source
Anyway, this is still besides the point. You still are making excuses for this guy, as if he was justified in slapping her down (lost control) because of her incessent licking (wouldn’t stop). We are making the allegation that you want to defend this guy for his actions, and are repeatedly bringing up the idea of false allegations in relation to this case. So tell me, was this guy falsely accused of child abuse?
Oh so THAT’S what he means about “false allegation” xD he doesn’t mean ones that actually make it to court or the police XD I get threatened on the internet by ppl who want to kill and rape me all the time (just read my vegetarian satire post xD there’s at least 20-30 ppl there threatening to rape me, and many more in my email box) we should ttlly add those to the stats to boost attempted rape stats! >_>;;
Does the loss of “control” indicated by slapping a 4 year old child, who one is trying to put to bed no less, hard enough to split her lip indicate that some form of counseling is in order? Was that the proper response to this documented allegation of child abuse?
(also notice, once his stats were not just debunked but proven to not even say what he thinks cuz he can’t do math xD he just ignored it and then switched arguments xDDD This is fun to unwind to after a bike ride XD )
NOBINYAMU
We have been conditioned to think of men when we think of child abuse, female child abusers are protected by this, they are not shamed in society about it despite the fact that its women doing the bulk of it. Female abusers have a certain amount of immunity because of this.
And just look at the child abuse apology going on here…. this is more of the same. Thats what I mean when I talk about female child abusers having protected status.
Its taboo to bring it up, as for female pedophiles thats still almost totally in the closet, society wont deal with it.
But that’s changing, expect kicking and screaming from feminists and women of all stripes when the veil on female pedophilia is lifted.
“Female pedophiles cause children more harm
Of ParStrom
Women who abuse sexually in children cause their victims more injuries than men. It writes the Norwegian newspaper Bergens time. They cite four researchers at the Psychology Faculty at the University of Bergen, who has written an article about it in the Journal of Norsk Psychologist Association.
Women abuse is similar to those of male sex offenders, writes Bergen’s time, but women’s abuse often occurs in close relationships, and therefore entails greater harm to the children.
For victims, it is also particularly great shame associated with abuse of the right women, says Nystad Haugland, researchers at the University of Bergen. She says that research even indicates that violence carried out by women are sometimes reported as abuse carried out by men.
Inge Nordhaug at the “Regional ressurssenter if vold, trauma og sjølvmord Vest” leading the evolution of research on family violence, and violence against children as a specialty. “The research has often said that 80 percent of the abuse comes from men,” he says, “but there is certainly a hidden here.”
He says there are several reasons to believe that the proportion of female offenders is higher than 20 percent. Nordhaug says:
“There is a double taboo on women as perpetrators. Women are mothers, and often a primary person for children to bond with. ”
He further says:
“The media is a female teacher who becomes pregnant by a 15-year-old boy described as a” tragedy “. But if a male teacher had done something similar, it will be spoken of as “grotesque”.
Inge Nordhaug says that men more often described as demons, but that other feelings and words used when women are abusive. “They become ‘victims’, while the man is the ‘perpetrator’ – one who is guilty.
Thanks for the tip, J, GenusNytts reports from Norway.” http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http://genusnytt.wordpress.com/2011/06/14/kvinnliga-pedofiler-orsakar-barn-storre-skada/
Quick feminists, deny deny deny!
And just look at the child abuse apology going on here…
I think you need to show (full in context) quotes for this xD I mean he says it’s going on HERE, so it’s not even like he has to go far to find all the proof right?
For fuck’s sake, Eoghan, NOBODY IS DEFENDING WOMEN WHO ABUSE CHILDREN. Nobody is saying women don’t abuse children!
beat that strawman harder
imagine it’s a woman
^^^^^yet another false allegation, add it to the pile
Kirbywarp, thanks for bringing up the link for traumatic bonding. It is simply not true that all abused children cower in fear and run from their abusers.