Good news, ladies and manginas: Apparently some MRAs don’t think it’s time to go out and start shooting people. At least not quite yet.
Some background: In recent days numerous MRAs have taken up the cause of a man named Thomas Ball – who burned himself to death outside a courthouse in Keane, New Hampshire in a protest against what he saw as unfair treatment in family court. Ferdinand Bardamu of In Male Fide has declared him “a martyr for the cause of men’s rights, a casualty of feminism’s stripping one half of the population of their humanity.”
Before killing himself, Ball wrote a long manifesto outlining his grievances and suggesting that the time had come for men “to start burning down police stations and courthouses,” describing the inhabitants of such buildings as “[c]ollaborators who are no different than the Vichy of France or the Quislings of Norway during the Second World War … So burn them out. “ (He offered specific advice on how best to do this, including tips on how to select the proper bottles to use for Molotov cocktails.)
All this has inspired some in the MRA to start talking ominously about violence. On The Spearhead, W.F. Price has responded to this talk with a piece suggesting that the time isn’t quite right for the MRAs of the world to take up armed struggle. Not just yet, anyway. As he puts it:
It is never a good idea to pick up a gun and start shooting to address some vaguely defined injustice — that is savagery. Before the American Revolution, for example, patriots took pains to spell out a long list of grievances that justified rebellion. …
We have to make our own lists, air our grievances, and give the state the opportunity to redress them. … Before anyone resorts to the same methods the state uses against us, we must put every reasonable effort into working with the law and the political system we have. Because this effort is still in its infancy, any calls for armed resistance are entirely premature and counterproductive, and shouldn’t be taken seriously.
Obviously, the flip side of this argument for delay is a justification for killing people if these “grievances” aren’t dealt with in the way that those in the MRA would like. Price’s reference to the American Revolution is an interesting one, because of course the central issue of that struggle was, you know, taxation without representation. The colonists couldn’t vote out the king if they didn’t like his policies. In case anyone has forgotten: we actually do have the vote now, which was kind of the whole point in the first place.
Of course, many of Price’s readers are a bit more impatient than he is. In a comment that drew (last I checked) more than 40 upvotes and only two dissenting downvote, Taqman took issue with Price’s call to delay the armed struggle:
Tell that to men who are facing imminent imprisonment for failure to pay child support.
They don’t have the luxury of time and can’t wait a couple of decades for the manginas of the world to wake up and decide that a gentlemanly form of armed resistance is now acceptable.
The ironically named Firepower, meanwhile, took a little swipe at Ball’s own actions, but didn’t challenge his advice for the rest of the men of the world:
What IS crazy is having to point out that setting YOURSELF on fire is a ridiculous way to “win” anything.
Set your enemies on fire. To even have to remind this questions the long term chances of victory for such a pathetic lot.
Jean Valjean suggested that political action was pointless — due to all those damned women who vote:
No amount of “stoic logic” will make politicians see our point of view.
Politicians are in the business of getting re-elected rather than the business of good governance. So long as women are the majority there will only be tyranny of the majority.
Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) — you knew we were getting to him, right? — expressed his profound disappointment that more Spearheaders weren’t willing to embrace a violent solution:
Gee you guys are whimps and tiptoe around the ‘use of force’ like freaking ballet dancers. Are you so scared to speak about this when it is CLEAR the guvment LOVES using force against you and lots of other people too?
And he made the argument personal, explicitly denouncing, by name, the judge he claimed had “criminally abused” him with his rulings:
Judge [name redacted’s] life is now in my hands. He lives by my consent and my consent alone. …
And, like Ball, he declared judges to be essentially treasonous:
These judges pretended to be your servants. They are evil, evil people who deserve the kind of treatment reserved for those who commit treason.
There is more to Nolan’s comment(s) than that, but to get into it would require going down the rabbit-hole into his particular brand of crackpottery, which seems to involve him setting up his own courts to try judges he doesn’t like. (I frankly don’t understand his belief system and don’t care to.)
Now, it should be noted that a few Spearheaders actually objected to Nolan’s violent talk. But the last I checked, the comment I just quoted had more upvotes than downvotes. W.F. Price took more flak for suggesting men wait a little longer before taking up arms than Nolan did for, well, you saw what he wrote. That tells you a lot about The Spearhead, I think.
EDIT: Added quote from Ferdinand Bardamu; removed similar quote from The Spearhead.
or it’s another study out of the prestigious Institute Of Things Found In My Ass.
Wait, you mean they’re not a fully accredited education institution? And I took out all those student loans for nothing!
“Eoghan – I made an allegation using the word “probably” about men who advocate for men’s rights and have been accused of abuse.
And I stand behind that “probably.” When someone’s response to accusations of abuse isn’t “I didn’t do that, and I can explain what did happen” but “everyone just hates me because I’m a man”… well, I won’t say definitely. But I’ll say probably.”
Ok mass false insinuation then? IDK, misandry? anyway something. The men’s movement is full of men that have been genuinly falsely accused, abused, kids stolen and generally fucked by the feminist state and it still doesn’t change the fact that feminists throw false allegations of abuse around as a retorical trick.
“Eoghan – Why is this suddenly all about women? Women do the abuse and women do the false allegations?”
I was just answering questions and responding to things that others had said.
False allegations of abuse and child abuse are dominated by women, its just a fact. It doesn’t have to be about women but I think that going by the comments here, some of the posters should should be mindful of these facts, if they lose site of the fact that bad behaviour and abuse is not gendered at all, they might devolop feeling of hate and mistrust of the group they are hanging all the bad behaviour on, and that would be a shame.
above post to perv, forgot to quote your name
@Eoghan:
“False allegations of abuse and child abuse are dominated by women, its just a fact.”
Actually, its exactly false, according to the obviously feminist-dominated American Bar Association. Do you have a more credible source that supports your case? No? Well, then, stop making claims that have been proven false.
I’m only a misandrist if “men who are MRAs and have also been accused of abuse” make up a large proportion of all men.
And believe me that I thank all the loving forces in this universe that they do not.
Eoghan/Middle of the road: how should the system proceed when an allegation of child abuse is made?
Kirby
I posted credible sources on the previous page and women do around 75% of the child abuse.
Holly
1 in 10
http://www.saveservices.org/false-allegations-awareness-month/survey-results/
I find it amusing that at this point, he’s just answering to Eoghan xD
David? xD
I should make cards of each of Eoghan’s personalities but the problem is that they’re all exactly the same so it’s hard to delineate them xD Maybe obsession of his that he’s focusing on? Last time was divorce, this time is on rape accusations (for some reason o_O )
I also love the “I forget your name” disingeniousness xD Most ppl would just remember and call her Holly xD (esp since she’s posting EVERYWHERE) xDD
@Spearhafoc
hey for once the video is kinda related to the topic although not to the thing you quoted. Ya know with the false abuse and joking about the killing of a woman because she “deserved it”. ha I bet plenty of mras would love ‘the room’ and think its a great narrative about the EVILZ OF WOMEN/FEMINSM.
“oh hey marc”
Wait, did he just say that the majority of the *false* allegations are against women? Because that’s certainly how I read it the first time. I mean, I know he’s not *trying* to say that, but he really didn’t think that sentence through very thoroughly.
@Eoghan:
I’d say a survey of actual cases beats out self reporting by far. The survey doesn’t even ask if the false accusation were recognized by the legal system, or whether it was just the person thinking it was false. How could that be an accurate sampling?
Kirby
Here, women do most child abuse, Im giving you this from Australia because Micheal flood comments on it, he is a feminist. These figures are replicated in the us too.
Mums dominate all forms of child abuse except sexual, but we as a society are still in denial about fem. pedos. so the jury is still out on that one.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/6089613/mum-not-dad-more-likely-to-neglect-kids/
Feminists at some point should stop covering up for female abusers and just accept reality.
Eoghan – Okay, so it’s self-reported, and it made no distinction between legal accusations and social ones.
But I’m going to echo, since you haven’t responded: how should the system proceed when an allegation of child abuse is made?
I feel like the implication of simply citing false-accusation claims and then walking away is that we should be less zealous in prosecuting abuse cases. And I don’t feel like this is a good idea at all. I think we should be zealous in investigating abuse cases, but if there is doubt, it should mean that investigations need to be more thorough, not that courts should be quicker to dismiss cases.
@Ami Angelwings:
I also love the “I forget your name” disingeniousness xD Most ppl would just remember and call her Holly xD (esp since she’s posting EVERYWHERE) xDD
Well, yeah, it’s not like he can’t, you know, copy and paste from this very website…like I just did with your name!
Yeah Kirby its a self reporting study.
There is plenty of evidence of false allegations, thee only sources denying the problem are feminist, I think because feminists tend to objectify women as some sort of moral betters or goddesses of some kind.
I like the slight of hand switch from who makes more false accusations (which was the original thing), to now who does more of the cases of abuse… xD
@Eoghan:
Also, the self reporting that actually was part of the statistics? Out of 1,108 “live respondants” from the initial 10,000. I wonder who would be most likely to take part in the survey, hmm? Perhaps the people who actually were falsely accused? The study even mentions that the non-reporting bias might be a problem.
“Due to the survey’s reliance on voter registration records and its response rate, it is necessary to exercise caution in generalizing the survey findings to the national population as a whole. The actual percentage may be higher or lower than the survey findings. Future surveys are needed to confirm the results of this study.”
In most credible studies of child abuse, abuse and neglect are usually combined in analysis. Sexual abuse is, generally, broken out. Women are the perpetrators in a majority of cases involving abuse and neglect. Men are the perpetrators in the majority of cases of sexual abuse.
What should the system do about allegations of child abuse?
Eoghan – I actually agree. Women do abuse children, and except for sexual abuse, they do it more often. I don’t doubt your sources there. And I agree that this is horrible, and that women who abuse children should definitely lose custody, if not go to jail.
…but I don’t see where anyone said anything to the contrary.
Women’s abuse of children doesn’t somehow negate what Ball did. It doesn’t make it fair.
Child abuse is horrible and inexcusable no matter who does it.
Im rejecting your source not because I dont like it Kirby, because I think its a feminist one and they tend to be unreliable, here are some better ones.
In many cases allegations of child sexual abuse occur in a nasty divorce made nastier by a custody fight. It is now so common that it has received scholarly attention and its own acronym, S.A.I.D. (Sexual Allegations in Divorce). The consensus is that in “S.A.I.D. syndrome” cases the number of such allegations increased so rapidly — up from 7 to 30% in the eighties — that one scholarly team called it an “explosion.” Others, noting how often the guilt of the accused was assumed, used the word “hysteria” and searched for analogies in the Salem and the McCarthy witch hunts (Stein, 1992).
Another consensus is being reached: that the majority of these allegations are false. Melvin Guyer, Professor of Psychology at the University of Michigan, reports that “in highly contested custody cases where the allegation is made, a number of researchers have found the allegations to be false or unsubstantiated in anywhere from 60 to 80% of those cases ” (Felten, 1991). Another investigative team stated that of 200 cases they studied” about three-fourths have ultimately been adjudicated as no abuse” (Felten, 1991). Some studies have come in with a lower but still significant estimate. For example, a 1988 study by the Association of Family and Conciliation Courts said that sexual molestation charges in divorces are probably false one-third of the time (Dvorchak, 1992).
Allegations of child abuse, both divorce related and in general, are flying out so frequently that those who believe themselves victimized by false charges have organized a nationwide support group, VOCAL (Victims Of Child Abuse Laws), which now includes 80 local chapters. This group refers its members to both informal and professional counsel, sends out a newsletter, and offers access to a rapidly expanding data base. In 1989, its summary of relevant statistics cited 23 studies which reported findings on both sexual and non-sexual child abuse. Among these, the lowest assessment of false allegation was 35%, the highest 82%, averaging at 66%.
http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume6/j6_2_4.htm
@Kirby no they’re not.. they have Eoghan… he’s alrdy confirmed it xD He should contact them and bring them his links and stuff, I thnk they’d be happy to have the work done for them alrdy xD
Save Services is pretty much an MRM organization, right?
And the survey pool appears to be around 1000, in a nation of what? 300 million?
And the survey results are … strange to say the least.
First percentage is people who answered “Yes,” second is “No.”
1. Have you ever heard of anyone falsely accused of abuse? 48.4% 51.6%
2. Has anyone you know ever been falsely accused of abuse? 15.5% 84.5%
3. Was this person falsely accused of child abuse?* 74.0% 26.0%
4. Was this person falsely accused of domestic violence?* 28.9% 71.1%
5. Was this person falsely accused of sexual abuse?* 48.5% 51.5%
6. Was this person falsely accused in the last year? 17.7% 82.3%
7. Was the falsely accused person a male? 81.0% 19.0%
8. Was the accuser a female? 69.9% 30.1%
9. Was the accusation made as part of a child custody dispute? 25.8% 74.2%
10. Have you been falsely accused? 11.0% 89.0%
So more than 50% of the 1000 people called said they had never even heard of someone who had been falsely accused. On the news, from their church — nothing.
But 81% of the 1000 people called said that the falsely accused person was a male.
Something is off. Unless I’m reading it wrong. Some table expert may feel free to correct me.
Kirby – I wonder who would be most likely to take part in the survey, hmm? Perhaps the people who actually were falsely accused?
Not even that. Also the people who *felt* that they had been falsely accused, and the people who wanted to get the word out that they had been falsely accused.
I also don’t see anything in the survey saying it was all men!
Im rejecting your source not because I dont like it Kirby, because I think its a feminist one and they tend to be unreliable,
I’ll just leave that there… xD
If we could, I’d say we should frame it and put it in the Hall of Fame David’s making xD