Good news, ladies and manginas: Apparently some MRAs don’t think it’s time to go out and start shooting people. At least not quite yet.
Some background: In recent days numerous MRAs have taken up the cause of a man named Thomas Ball – who burned himself to death outside a courthouse in Keane, New Hampshire in a protest against what he saw as unfair treatment in family court. Ferdinand Bardamu of In Male Fide has declared him “a martyr for the cause of men’s rights, a casualty of feminism’s stripping one half of the population of their humanity.”
Before killing himself, Ball wrote a long manifesto outlining his grievances and suggesting that the time had come for men “to start burning down police stations and courthouses,” describing the inhabitants of such buildings as “[c]ollaborators who are no different than the Vichy of France or the Quislings of Norway during the Second World War … So burn them out. “ (He offered specific advice on how best to do this, including tips on how to select the proper bottles to use for Molotov cocktails.)
All this has inspired some in the MRA to start talking ominously about violence. On The Spearhead, W.F. Price has responded to this talk with a piece suggesting that the time isn’t quite right for the MRAs of the world to take up armed struggle. Not just yet, anyway. As he puts it:
It is never a good idea to pick up a gun and start shooting to address some vaguely defined injustice — that is savagery. Before the American Revolution, for example, patriots took pains to spell out a long list of grievances that justified rebellion. …
We have to make our own lists, air our grievances, and give the state the opportunity to redress them. … Before anyone resorts to the same methods the state uses against us, we must put every reasonable effort into working with the law and the political system we have. Because this effort is still in its infancy, any calls for armed resistance are entirely premature and counterproductive, and shouldn’t be taken seriously.
Obviously, the flip side of this argument for delay is a justification for killing people if these “grievances” aren’t dealt with in the way that those in the MRA would like. Price’s reference to the American Revolution is an interesting one, because of course the central issue of that struggle was, you know, taxation without representation. The colonists couldn’t vote out the king if they didn’t like his policies. In case anyone has forgotten: we actually do have the vote now, which was kind of the whole point in the first place.
Of course, many of Price’s readers are a bit more impatient than he is. In a comment that drew (last I checked) more than 40 upvotes and only two dissenting downvote, Taqman took issue with Price’s call to delay the armed struggle:
Tell that to men who are facing imminent imprisonment for failure to pay child support.
They don’t have the luxury of time and can’t wait a couple of decades for the manginas of the world to wake up and decide that a gentlemanly form of armed resistance is now acceptable.
The ironically named Firepower, meanwhile, took a little swipe at Ball’s own actions, but didn’t challenge his advice for the rest of the men of the world:
What IS crazy is having to point out that setting YOURSELF on fire is a ridiculous way to “win” anything.
Set your enemies on fire. To even have to remind this questions the long term chances of victory for such a pathetic lot.
Jean Valjean suggested that political action was pointless — due to all those damned women who vote:
No amount of “stoic logic” will make politicians see our point of view.
Politicians are in the business of getting re-elected rather than the business of good governance. So long as women are the majority there will only be tyranny of the majority.
Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) — you knew we were getting to him, right? — expressed his profound disappointment that more Spearheaders weren’t willing to embrace a violent solution:
Gee you guys are whimps and tiptoe around the ‘use of force’ like freaking ballet dancers. Are you so scared to speak about this when it is CLEAR the guvment LOVES using force against you and lots of other people too?
And he made the argument personal, explicitly denouncing, by name, the judge he claimed had “criminally abused” him with his rulings:
Judge [name redacted’s] life is now in my hands. He lives by my consent and my consent alone. …
And, like Ball, he declared judges to be essentially treasonous:
These judges pretended to be your servants. They are evil, evil people who deserve the kind of treatment reserved for those who commit treason.
There is more to Nolan’s comment(s) than that, but to get into it would require going down the rabbit-hole into his particular brand of crackpottery, which seems to involve him setting up his own courts to try judges he doesn’t like. (I frankly don’t understand his belief system and don’t care to.)
Now, it should be noted that a few Spearheaders actually objected to Nolan’s violent talk. But the last I checked, the comment I just quoted had more upvotes than downvotes. W.F. Price took more flak for suggesting men wait a little longer before taking up arms than Nolan did for, well, you saw what he wrote. That tells you a lot about The Spearhead, I think.
EDIT: Added quote from Ferdinand Bardamu; removed similar quote from The Spearhead.
Conchubar: Eugh. Chilling. You don’t normally see that kind of selfishness or cruelty outside of toddlers or psychopaths, but there it is… Thanks for sharing.
Long ago in ancient China there was a particularly vile regime that oppressed the people without mercy.
They believed they were perfect and all other’s must bow before them and entertain their every whim.
They adorned themselves with the finest silk clothing of every color.
They grew their nails long to show the were above manual labor.
They painted their fingernails, toenails and faces; constantly beautifying themselves.
They wore expensive jewelry so that they sparkled and glittlered.
They softened their bodies with oils and lotions, never deigning to even look at the rough, chapped skin of the peasant.
They perfumed themselves so everyone would know when they were near, to bow down before their superiors.
They wrote laws by the thousands. Each law more oppressive than the last. Every law reinforcing their privilege.
No one dared raise a voice in anger let alone raise a fist in defense, the law forbad even disagreement.
They engaged in every decadent behavior. They proclaimed every form of debauchery to be righteous and welcome. They raised the debauch up to a level of privilege near themselves and wrote laws that all must praise the vile.
Their wicked vanity knew no bounds. They would often steal the peasants children and force them to pay for those very children while forbidding the peasants to even visit them. Their vanity grew to such heights they believed themselves Gods, often killing the peasants unborn children and calling it their right.
After decades of their wages being garnished, laws wrongfully imprisoning them, having their children stolen, the peasants began to show great unrest.
Some of the peasants complained to the imperial guard to no avail. Some committed acts to draw attention to their plight. Sometimes the peasants turned to violence. Occasionally a peasant would commit an unfathomable act, like setting themself ablaze.
The heartless rulers would laugh and mock the peasants, while squelching the tale so other wouldn’t hear of the unrest.
No mercy was afforded the peasants as they would write ever more oppressive laws subjugating their serfs. Their greed and vanity, their thoughts of self worth consumed their every waking moment.
Eventually the peasants overthrew their vile overlords in a most vicious and violent manner.
Yes captain Bathrobe, false allegations are sometimes made by men too. I wasn’t suggesting that Bell was falsely accused, I have read his letter and he did hit that child, I was responding to this false allegation about false allegations of abuse by pervocracy “Well, sure… 10 out of 10 abusers report being falsely accused of some form of abuse.”
Perv – Of course some false allegations are true, but I think most are not, the latest news piece ive seen is a police officer in Australia saying that 4 out of 5 are false (that was for rape).
Here is some info on divorce related false allegations.
“In many cases allegations of child sexual abuse occur in a nasty divorce made nastier by a custody fight. It is now so common that it has received scholarly attention and its own acronym, S.A.I.D. (Sexual Allegations in Divorce). The consensus is that in “S.A.I.D. syndrome” cases the number of such allegations increased so rapidly — up from 7 to 30% in the eighties — that one scholarly team called it an “explosion.” Others, noting how often the guilt of the accused was assumed, used the word “hysteria” and searched for analogies in the Salem and the McCarthy witch hunts (Stein, 1992).
Another consensus is being reached: that the majority of these allegations are false. Melvin Guyer, Professor of Psychology at the University of Michigan, reports that “in highly contested custody cases where the allegation is made, a number of researchers have found the allegations to be false or unsubstantiated in anywhere from 60 to 80% of those cases ” (Felten, 1991). Another investigative team stated that of 200 cases they studied” about three-fourths have ultimately been adjudicated as no abuse” (Felten, 1991). Some studies have come in with a lower but still significant estimate. For example, a 1988 study by the Association of Family and Conciliation Courts said that sexual molestation charges in divorces are probably false one-third of the time (Dvorchak, 1992).
Allegations of child abuse, both divorce related and in general, are flying out so frequently that those who believe themselves victimized by false charges have organized a nationwide support group, VOCAL (Victims Of Child Abuse Laws), which now includes 80 local chapters. This group refers its members to both informal and professional counsel, sends out a newsletter, and offers access to a rapidly expanding data base. In 1989, its summary of relevant statistics cited 23 studies which reported findings on both sexual and non-sexual child abuse. Among these, the lowest assessment of false allegation was 35%, the highest 82%, averaging at 66%.
http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume6/j6_2_4.htm
I prolly descended from ALL of them XD
NWO – I take it your little fairytale is an endorsement of “vicious and violent” action against women and/or against the government?
Please, enlighten me if it’s anything else.
NWO:
Cool story, bro.
And in NWO, right on cue, with an indirect threat of violence.
Now it’s a party.
NWO:
So all women everywhere in the US are basically a ruthless regime of royalties?
You might be interested in the links between Abraham Lincoln and JFK’s assasinations as well. Pointing out a bunch of similarities, while ignoring the countless differences, is exactly how conspiracy theories work. But you don’t believe in conspiracy theories, do you?
Hey, I dance on graves! Literally! Not because I’m celebrating any one person’s death (I don’t even know the people) but I do celebrate the cycle of life and death. And I really love cemeteries 🙂
Proof:
http://funcrunch.zenfolio.com/christa-auros-engagement/h32ede5ee#h32ede5ee
(ok most of the time I don’t actually dance, but I do skip and jump and take photos and give my sweetie kisses :))
Middleoftheroad, what do you think we should do about allegations of child abuse?
@Holly that is something I have been thinking about for a while : Esp w/ somebody like MRAL. In another life, he might have been in a cult, or we’d be dealing with “White Heritage Pride Lieutenant” : just cuz you’re right that it does seem a lot of it is “unhappy w/ your lot in life? THEY’RE the ones to blame!”
(watch, this is gonna turn into “NO THAT’S FEMINISM!” xDDD *puts on the Rodeo cat hat* XDDDD)
@Holly he’s warning people about me and my family tree xD
Perv. Hang around with feminists for 5 mins and you’ll see how common false allegations are.
MacKinnons “rape culture” thing, which is a very popular delusion among your feminists these days, is a mass false allegation of rape.
The false allegation of some form of crimes against women, from the thought crime of mysogny (criticizing in anyway shape or form or disagreeing with feminism i some way) right up it psychopathic rapist and so on, we live in a false allegation culture.
David, I’m pretty sure you’re right, and middle of the road is noogz/Eoghan. Noogz also had a difficult time remembering the last name of the martyr he claimed. (See the Father’s Day thread.)
If false allegations are true… then aren’t not false.
The cop who says that 4 out of 5 allegations are false is in Austria, and it’s not for rape, but for “sexual assault”.
I suspect it’s a translation error, and he said something on the order of, “Non-substantiated/dismissed/not prosecutable” which was a form of, “not-true” which became “false”. Until I can see the original, I’m not really convinced.
@MotR:
Take a look at my comment towards you. In custody cases, fathers are more likely to make intentionally false claims of sexual abuse than mothers by 21% to 1.3%. (this is out of 6% where allegations are made). So not only isn’t it common, but it comes from the fathers rather than the mothers.
@Holly you’re now Perv! :3 It REALLY IS like wrestling xD Like how Rocky Maivia became The Rock xD
You are now The Perv! :3
(and yus, thanks to my imagination, we rly do live in 3 different worlds now.. there’s the real world, where we fight, laugh and love on a blog, the wrestling world, where our arguments are turned into wrestling matches… and the fantasy card game world! where our political beliefs are embodied! xD It’s like Sucker Punch! (or another show that just eludes my mind right now! >:O ) )
NOB
“Middleoftheroad, what do you think we should do about allegations of child abuse?”
I think that we should focus on women more as they are the main child abusers, as it stands female abusers have relative immunity from shame and responsibility, we should also stop covering up for females that make false allegations, because they clog the system up and genuine victims fall through the cracks.
If we stop child abuse at it source, we will have fewer abusive adults.
Why am I having this sinking feeling that “hang around feminists and you’ll see how common false rape allegations are” refers not to some sort of strange ritual where we hang around a coffee shop making false allegations are ppl xD but to how you will here ppl who are survivors occasionally share their experiences? -_-;;;
Eoghan – I have hung around with feminists for many, many minutes. And I know a lot who have been sexually assaulted and not reported it. Some who have been sexually assaulted, reported it, and not been believed or not gotten a conviction. (Which seems to go in the MRA books as a “false accusation,” regardless of the circumstances. I’m not saying we should convict without proof, but we shouldn’t call an accusation necessarily false just because it didn’t lead to a conviction.)
I have not personally known any women who falsely accused a man of rape, to my knowledge.
I have known one person who I’m fairly sure was falsely accused of child abuse, although:
A) This person still had visitation rights to her child and eventually regained partial custody as well
and
B) This person was a woman.
(Wait, why are we talking about rape accusations all of a sudden? No one accused Ball of raping anybody!)
@eoghan/MotR:
You are wrong, as I’ve said before.
*are = about
*here = hear
xD
Yep. Definitely Eogahn.
Please don’t shorten my name; it’s rude and condescending.
I also believe that we should work to prevent child abuse though I completely disagree that female abuse is ignored. My sister is a pediatrician and I have friends that are social workers. That’s simply not true.
I’m not asking what we should do about allegations that prove to be false. I’m not asking you how we should prevent abuse.
I’m asking you to tell me what we should do about allegations of child abuse. When allegation of child abuse is made how should the system proceed?
@Nobinayamu telling them that their things just aren’t true IRL doesn’t seem to work -_-;; I mean I actually WORK w/ men’s shelters (as I keep saying, which also means *gasp* they exist) and they still dun care… it’s rly like arguing with ppl if it’s raining outside, and they’ll read meteorological trends, and weather in the past for this date, and etc etc… but they refuse to just go out and see if it’s raining xD It’s all theory on theory on theory (which oddly is what feminists keep being accused of… and lately on this blog evolutionary scientists xD )
Also I think Eoghan should at least admit he’s Eoghan and we can give him his card! xD Show photo ID! :3