Good news, ladies and manginas: Apparently some MRAs don’t think it’s time to go out and start shooting people. At least not quite yet.
Some background: In recent days numerous MRAs have taken up the cause of a man named Thomas Ball – who burned himself to death outside a courthouse in Keane, New Hampshire in a protest against what he saw as unfair treatment in family court. Ferdinand Bardamu of In Male Fide has declared him “a martyr for the cause of men’s rights, a casualty of feminism’s stripping one half of the population of their humanity.”
Before killing himself, Ball wrote a long manifesto outlining his grievances and suggesting that the time had come for men “to start burning down police stations and courthouses,” describing the inhabitants of such buildings as “[c]ollaborators who are no different than the Vichy of France or the Quislings of Norway during the Second World War … So burn them out. “ (He offered specific advice on how best to do this, including tips on how to select the proper bottles to use for Molotov cocktails.)
All this has inspired some in the MRA to start talking ominously about violence. On The Spearhead, W.F. Price has responded to this talk with a piece suggesting that the time isn’t quite right for the MRAs of the world to take up armed struggle. Not just yet, anyway. As he puts it:
It is never a good idea to pick up a gun and start shooting to address some vaguely defined injustice — that is savagery. Before the American Revolution, for example, patriots took pains to spell out a long list of grievances that justified rebellion. …
We have to make our own lists, air our grievances, and give the state the opportunity to redress them. … Before anyone resorts to the same methods the state uses against us, we must put every reasonable effort into working with the law and the political system we have. Because this effort is still in its infancy, any calls for armed resistance are entirely premature and counterproductive, and shouldn’t be taken seriously.
Obviously, the flip side of this argument for delay is a justification for killing people if these “grievances” aren’t dealt with in the way that those in the MRA would like. Price’s reference to the American Revolution is an interesting one, because of course the central issue of that struggle was, you know, taxation without representation. The colonists couldn’t vote out the king if they didn’t like his policies. In case anyone has forgotten: we actually do have the vote now, which was kind of the whole point in the first place.
Of course, many of Price’s readers are a bit more impatient than he is. In a comment that drew (last I checked) more than 40 upvotes and only two dissenting downvote, Taqman took issue with Price’s call to delay the armed struggle:
Tell that to men who are facing imminent imprisonment for failure to pay child support.
They don’t have the luxury of time and can’t wait a couple of decades for the manginas of the world to wake up and decide that a gentlemanly form of armed resistance is now acceptable.
The ironically named Firepower, meanwhile, took a little swipe at Ball’s own actions, but didn’t challenge his advice for the rest of the men of the world:
What IS crazy is having to point out that setting YOURSELF on fire is a ridiculous way to “win” anything.
Set your enemies on fire. To even have to remind this questions the long term chances of victory for such a pathetic lot.
Jean Valjean suggested that political action was pointless — due to all those damned women who vote:
No amount of “stoic logic” will make politicians see our point of view.
Politicians are in the business of getting re-elected rather than the business of good governance. So long as women are the majority there will only be tyranny of the majority.
Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) — you knew we were getting to him, right? — expressed his profound disappointment that more Spearheaders weren’t willing to embrace a violent solution:
Gee you guys are whimps and tiptoe around the ‘use of force’ like freaking ballet dancers. Are you so scared to speak about this when it is CLEAR the guvment LOVES using force against you and lots of other people too?
And he made the argument personal, explicitly denouncing, by name, the judge he claimed had “criminally abused” him with his rulings:
Judge [name redacted’s] life is now in my hands. He lives by my consent and my consent alone. …
And, like Ball, he declared judges to be essentially treasonous:
These judges pretended to be your servants. They are evil, evil people who deserve the kind of treatment reserved for those who commit treason.
There is more to Nolan’s comment(s) than that, but to get into it would require going down the rabbit-hole into his particular brand of crackpottery, which seems to involve him setting up his own courts to try judges he doesn’t like. (I frankly don’t understand his belief system and don’t care to.)
Now, it should be noted that a few Spearheaders actually objected to Nolan’s violent talk. But the last I checked, the comment I just quoted had more upvotes than downvotes. W.F. Price took more flak for suggesting men wait a little longer before taking up arms than Nolan did for, well, you saw what he wrote. That tells you a lot about The Spearhead, I think.
EDIT: Added quote from Ferdinand Bardamu; removed similar quote from The Spearhead.
@Pecunium:
Oh, I know. He just tried to deflect the question about his behavior by bringing up his personal life. I see the evidence you bring up, and it doesn’t look good. I just don’t want to get wrapped up in this… You seem to be handling yourself just fine. 🙂
Well, let me side with him as well then, because he hasn’t made any such demand. He asked if it was your mother or your foster mother who, you claim, beat you as a child. I think this is a perfectly reasonable question. Why are you getting so bent out of shape about this? You’re the one who brought it up in the first place.
Hey, Snowy – if I referred to my foster mother as my mother (which is common for foster children to do, even if they have several) is it going to change anything? Does it change one stinking thing? Does it advance the story? Hurt the story? Anything at all?
No.
It’s just Pec’s smear campaign in high gear – which I nailed from the beginning – which is why I said I won’t help.
And, if you agree with such behavior, the my sources were correct:
You guys ARE evil.
If WE’RE evil, then for gods sake don’t go anywhere near 4chan.
Crack
Well, you got your prediction spectacularly wrong.
It’s one thing to say that X murdered three people, only to go down a spiral in which we find that, thus far, X’s partner was acquitted on a medical malpractise charge in October of last year.
it’s quite another to say “I believe that my ex and her partner are quack practitioners who are responsible for the deaths of 3 people.” That might have been the start of a really interesting conversation about new-age therapy cults and how pernicious they can be….
The Crack Emcee:
From the Union Leader: “The girl, now 14, reported to Jaffrey police at the time that Ball pushed her on her back, hit her a lot and she was bleeding.”
That’s where I got the “hit her several times” bit. “Hit her a lot,” perhaps I should have said, but I was going from memory.
I think you and I had very different upbringings and have had very different experiences. In no way would I challenge you on what you’ve seen, heard, felt, done, etc. I have a feeling I could learn a lot from you. Where my stance on a cycle of violence or a vicious circle of violence comes from is working with men in prison and working with rape victims. This is my own experience. It’s not something that I read in a feminist book; it’s hands-on real world observation. Different from your real world observation, it seems, but no less real.
When a guy tells me he molested his daughter after being molested himself as a young child by adults in his family, and he doesn’t know why he molested her except that he was raised in a home where that was acceptable — I believe him. When a guy tells me that he shot two people he didn’t even know, and incidentally was abused repeatedly and neglected by his parents, and ended up being cared for by a family that earned its living by committing small-time crimes, and this all led him to be filled with rage through most of his childhood and teenage years, and even now — I believe him. I don’t want to get too detailed because these really aren’t my stories to tell, but in my experiences, I’ve seen and talked to guys who committed violent crimes on a background of abuse. This doesn’t mean everyone with this kind of background goes on to commit violent crimes; and it doesn’t mean that everyone who commits violent crimes has been abused. But it does seem to point to at least a sometimes-relationship between being a victim, experiencing trauma, and then going on to victimize others.
So Crack… address the rest of the issues I brought up… or is it just going to be, “You are planning to smear me, so I won’t”, followed by another declaration of Victory.
Shall we get you a banner that says, “Mission Accomplished”?
Dan,
Here’s the thing, I’ve actually met, interviewed and filmed the families of people who were genuinely the victims of cult murders in France and Switzerland back in the 1990′s – you know, burned to death, with .22 bullets in the head type murders, including minors. No ambiguity, no doubts, no equivocation, no semantics, no malpractise. I met, interviewed and filmed some of the lucky ones that left the cult in time – some by the slenderest thread of good fortune. I also met, interviewed and avoided filming charlatans who claimed things that were not credible or just plain flat out mendacious.
I have a high bar for this sort of thing.
I’ve met all kinds. Since my experience – and especially since I started blogging about this stuff – I’ve seen everything from guilty parties who walked to innocent people smeared for murder. Cults are such a “gray area” in our society, they can get away with murder just because most people don’t understand the parameters. I have studied everything about them. I know their catch phrases, how brainwashing works, what’s the difference between “open” and “closed” – all that. And most times it breaks my heart that I’ve ever had to know it. On the other hand, I’m now the go-to guy for average people to get information, and that’s gratifying. I’ve saved a few lives, saved a few marriages, and got lots of people to stop doing yoga (the “gateway drug” of cultism.)
Anyway, thanks for the kind wishes, and please don’t feel there are any hard feelings. You didn’t do as Pec did, and, I know, anyone would want to know the basics.
kirbywarp,
We try to point out that you don’t have the right idea about child abuse, and you accuse us of being pansies or of lying about your personal life.
No, you said my mother abused me, and I am the only one here who could claim that. There were also lots of assumptions that she and I had something to come to terms with, which also never happened – that was the condescending part:
You just didn’t know anything and let your assumptions direct you – which, as I pointed out, is an absolutely terrible way to judge any situation – especially under the rigid framework you’re using.
No one could escape condemnation under that.
Pec, with the exception of this one thing, I’m done with you:
You on homeopathy and “New Age” and Yoga, and how your wife thinks she’s a god, and that she committed murder… that’s obsession.
No, Pec, that’s the fallout from cultism and murder. When your beautiful wife of 20 years falls for a charlatan, tells you she’s God, and there are dead people because she “over-estimated my powers,” you, too, are are probably going to want to know what happened to her. And, when you discover that what happened to her has gone mainstream, to the point where Oprah’s got Tom Cruise jumping on her couch, and she’s sending people to the sweatlodge guy, while Whole Foods is selling water as medicine for anywhere from $10-30 a vial, you’ll wake-the-fuck-up to the world around
you with new eyes.
There, goodbye. That was a shitty thing to do.
Crack
No hard feelings this side of the pond either…..
Just to let you know, Crack, though you don’t think much of me, I don’t have any hard feelings towards you either. These last couple posts are actually borderline reasonable, and I reiterate feeling sorry for your situation. But just so you know, your attitude has changed dramatically from where you started. Take a look at these two quotes for comparison:
“The ironically named Mr. Ball is, indeed, a martyr to a cause, and it’s a cause that is decent and just. Your mockery of that which you don’t understand – which is, ultimately, yourselves – is evident in your every word and will, eventually, be stopped. Feminism exists because generous men allowed it to be so, but how it gets stripped away will be determined by how selfish you are. We will not continue to suffer policies and actions that are designed to hurt and punish us. You can live in your evil dream world all you want, for the time being, but – with the suicide of Thomas Ball – you ARE being put on notice:
Reality is on it’s way.”
And this:
“I’ve met all kinds. Since my experience – and especially since I started blogging about this stuff – I’ve seen everything from guilty parties who walked to innocent people smeared for murder. Cults are such a “gray area” in our society, they can get away with murder just because most people don’t understand the parameters. I have studied everything about them. I know their catch phrases, how brainwashing works, what’s the difference between “open” and “closed” – all that. And most times it breaks my heart that I’ve ever had to know it. On the other hand, I’m now the go-to guy for average people to get information, and that’s gratifying. I’ve saved a few lives, saved a few marriages, and got lots of people to stop doing yoga (the “gateway drug” of cultism.)”
Why in goodness’s name couldn’t you have started with the second quote? A lot of turmoil and frustration could have easily been avoided, and you wouldn’t be locking horns with pecunium about every detail about your life.
So, who “won?”
@speedlines:
Nobody, speedlines. Everyone loses in a war. -_-
Dan,
Please, let’s drop the semantics argument. You don’t have all the information, but you do have distance, which allows for a more clinical outlook. I ‘m sure, if you spoke with families of the sweatlodge victims, involuntary homicide wouldn’t be the only result they would tell happened. I am no different, and my case isn’t over.
Pec (one more time, because this is too good),
Leave it to you to misunderstand everything – including the “Mission Accomplished” banner:
https://pubsecrets.wordpress.com/2011/05/13/bill-whittle-mythbusting-bush-bin-laden-and-obama/
Are you sure you served?
I’m back! :3 I got a business skirt! xD This business casual stuff is so new to me xD
I’m glad that he’s calmed down and seemed to have become civil and stuff :] It’s a little weird that when ppl are fair to him (as they are imo in general :3 well not me apparently, but 4 of 5 trolls prefer Ami Angelwings over the next leading jerkface brand xD ) he calls it a concession.. but I guess since he came in expecting a fight and then got ppl being nice to him, it seems like a concession :3
I also finally get his hatred of New Age stuff.. it’s from the issues involving his wife and I ttlly am sry for what happened there and I get why it’s so important to you now :] I am glad that you are trying to save ppl from cults (tho yoga as a gateway to cultism, is imo and ime kinda like DnD as a gateway to Satanism that used to be brought up a lot…), i hope you understand that magic cards aren’t related to cults and hopefully that reassures you that I’m not trying to do to ppl what you’ve seen done to others :] (that’s what I was trying to get you to explain, why you hate my magic cards so much but now I get it! 😀 )
But Kirby has a point… what WAS the point of your coming here? o_O Originally it seemed to be that you dun think children being beaten was abuse… then you mentioned your wife, then you threatened feminism and kinda hinted that horrible repercussions were coming our way, and you insulted the ppl here a lot o_o;; But now you are saying ttlly different things, and apparently THAT was what you wanted to tell us… so… yeah. xD
Neways! 😀 Am glad things are civil and peaceful now! :] (and no, not condescension, as I tried to point out earlier, I talk like this to everybody if you’ve read thru the threads… :] )
Yay! 😀
Also Pecunium, P.I. would ttlly be a tv show I’d watch XD
In the feminist justice system, the women are represented by two separate but equally important ppl: Pecunium who investigates posters, and Kirbywarp who prosecutes them. These are their stories.
xD
And Ami who bops around and everybody hates her! xD
I am kinda disappointed tho : All the hyperbole of “you’re so cruel, and there are ppl out there confirming to me how cruel you are” was making me amused and excited xD Ami: the cruelest queen bee borg teminatrix lady death shrike demon angel cat of doom evar was making me go wow rly? :O w00t! xD But alas XD
@Kirbywar except Ami :3 (but only in “war” not in actual war, just in internet “war” xD )
Also she has a skirt! 😀 I’m an office cat now XD or a consultant cat I guess 😀
Ami: Re. this skirt. Describe please. What are we talking here. A-line? Tweed? Navy? Heather? Is it suitable for Corporate Lesbianism and Corporate Blowjobs?
Oh cool, can I be Mariska Hargitay? Duuuuuuuude
It’s a black skirt actually… with a tie black belt thing… it looks v nice… I didn’t think it’d work, that it’d look too gothy or something ( everything solid black looks gothy to me xD I’m a pink, white and light blue girl xD ) but it worked rly well actually :3 I’ll take a pic for you if you want! (tho not atm, I’m about to go out for a bike ride 😀 )
It prolly is very suited for Corporate Lesbianism tho :3 I might need a white skirt for Corporate Blowjobs however.. to hide the stains and all xD
Aw Crack… there you go, doing what you said you wouldn’t and engaging in a back-handed accusation that I didn’t really spend sixteen years in uniform.
But yes, I am sure. The disability compensation I get reminds of it, every month.
But really… Bill Whittle? An NRO writer. A shill for the previous administration?
Here’s some of what I do know. The White House tried to say the banner had nothing to do with them. They actually claimed the ships crew put it up, all by themselves.
The Lincoln had to stay at sea for an extra 10 days so Bush could make his presser on the deck.
This quotation was in the speech, “In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.” Donald Rumsfeld says that when he saw the first draft of the speech it had the actual phrase, “mission accomplished” in it.
This is what was in the papers at the time:
After the controversy started the Bush Administration defended the banner as describing, “The end of combat operations” in Iraq… in other words Mission Accomplished.
The next day Richard Perle,(Chairman, 2001-2003, Defense Policy Board, U.S. Department of Defense) published an Op-Ed piece entitled, which ran in USAToday.
So, even if the banner was nothing but the crew’s doing (which doesn’t see to be the case) the Bush Administration used it to sell the idea the shooting war was over, and that it was easier sailing from here on out.
Which isn’t quite how its played out in the more than eight years since that little photo op.
@Snowy you ttlly can be!
Oh! Also yeah, my friend picked it out for me, cuz she’s an awesome fashiony person and I have no exp at business casual clothing xD
Thinking about what some of the trolls here’s thoughts would be on how pampered I must be, and how pampered SHE must be xD Since she has a photographer BF and they travel the world, and she’s a real estate agent but it’s all obv on him pampering her xD made me think of a game (no not another card game. just an imagination discussion game!) where we take relationships and careers of couples that we know, and make it so that obv the woman is playing at her job and the man’s job is super important and she’s just using her XD
Oooh, yeah, you should get a white one too. How else are you ever going to succeed without the blowjobs? Have a fun bike ride!
(Reminds self: Get white skirt for job interviews.)
Oh, looky what I found: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/the-child-cases/
Ami,
“tho yoga as a gateway to cultism, is imo and ime kinda like DnD as a gateway to Satanism that used to be brought up a lot…”
Please. Just don’t talk, O.K.? I have a serious resistance to stupidity – especially willful stupidity, like that statement and Pec’s about the “Mission Accomplished” banner.
If you want more information, ask, but don’t compare me to conspiracy theorists or cranks because I have to school both daily and I despise them. Yoga is involved in almost every major cult I’ve ever investigated, and almost every cult-related death. For instance, those sweatlodge deaths? They did yoga first. Had to – it’s used by cult leaders, gurus, and the Indians to make you stupid, to make you “open-minded” to stupid ideas, like paying someone to teach you how to put your head up your butt. Yoga serves few real purposes, and has many hidden dangers, as Carl Jung observed:
“One often hears and reads about the dangers of Yoga, particularly of the ill-reputed Kundalini Yoga. The deliberately induced psychotic state, which in certain unstable individuals might easily lead to a real psychosis, is a danger that needs to be taken very seriously indeed. These things really are dangerous and ought not to be meddled with in our typically Western way. It is a meddling with Fate, which strikes at the very roots of human existence and can let loose a flood of sufferings of which no sane person ever dreamed. These sufferings correspond to the hellish torments of the chönyid state…”
http://www.yogadangers.com/
But, “in our typically Western way,” fools rush in without looking at the dark-or-down side, while hiding the sick, crazy, and dead out of sight as fast as possible. Here’s one of my favorite descriptions of the fools who have happily fallen for this bullshit – and just think:
Jerry Brown is back as Governor of California and – even though these fools were pegged as far back as the ’80s, they think they’re original thinkers. They’re cult fodder. Especially someone as ditzy as Miss Angelwings:
I am Governor Jerry Brown
My aura smiles and never frowns
Soon I will be President
Carter power will soon go away
I will be fuhrer one day
I will command all of you
Your kids will meditate in school
Your kids will meditate in school
California Uber Alles
California Uber Alles
Uber Alles California
Uber Alles California
Zen fascists will control you 100% natural
You will jog for the master race
And always wear the happy face
Close your eyes, can’t happen here
Big Bro’ on the white horse is near
The hippies won’t come back, you say
Mellow out or you will pay
Mellow out or you will pay
California Uber Alles
California Uber Alles
Uber Alles California
Uber Alles California
Now it is 1984
Knock, knock at your front door
It’s the suede-denim secret police
They have come for your uncool niece
Come quietly to the camp
You’d look nice as a drawstring lamp
Don’t you worry, it’s only a shower
For your clothes, here’s a pretty flower
Die on organic poison gas
Serpent’s egg’s already hatched
You will croak, you little clown
When you mess with President Brown
When you mess with President Brown
California Uber Alles
California Uber Alles
Uber Alles California
Uber Alles California
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN-_UOvwNA8
So much for being civil XD Now he’s back to insults >_>;;
Tho yeah, I get the triggering thing : and I think his mind is set (again, I get it and where he’s coming from, I just dun agree xD ) and I dun want to trigger something that’s clearly emotionally raw (i get that too) so I’ll back off on the correlation != causality thing :3 (A CONCESSION! XD )
I am wondering though. Do you think yoga should be banned? :O What should we do about it? o:
I am a little amused that now I’m too ditzy to be cruel xD
Outside of the way I talk, what makes ditzy? 😀 what do you think I believe? 😮 or probably believe? :] I’m always curious about how I come off to ppl 😀 (it allows me to tinker w/ my Rodeo Catness 😀 )
Carl Jung isn’t really considered a viable source in psychology, is he? I thought he was more on par with Freud – historically important but outdated and mostly wrong.
I do not have numbers to back this up (I doubt they exist) but given the large amount of people who do Americanized hatha yoga, and the much smaller amount of people in cults, I’m thinking it might not be such a bad thing. I mean, it’s essentially just stretching and breath control…some people are “new-agey” about it (and I share your aversion to that) but for many people it’s a physically enjoyable and relaxing activity.
(again, I’m speaking about mainstream, Americanized hatha yoga – I know very little about the rest of it)
“Yoga is involved in almost every major cult I’ve ever investigated, and almost every cult-related death. ”
Do you have a source for that claim?