Good news, ladies and manginas: Apparently some MRAs don’t think it’s time to go out and start shooting people. At least not quite yet.
Some background: In recent days numerous MRAs have taken up the cause of a man named Thomas Ball – who burned himself to death outside a courthouse in Keane, New Hampshire in a protest against what he saw as unfair treatment in family court. Ferdinand Bardamu of In Male Fide has declared him “a martyr for the cause of men’s rights, a casualty of feminism’s stripping one half of the population of their humanity.”
Before killing himself, Ball wrote a long manifesto outlining his grievances and suggesting that the time had come for men “to start burning down police stations and courthouses,” describing the inhabitants of such buildings as “[c]ollaborators who are no different than the Vichy of France or the Quislings of Norway during the Second World War … So burn them out. “ (He offered specific advice on how best to do this, including tips on how to select the proper bottles to use for Molotov cocktails.)
All this has inspired some in the MRA to start talking ominously about violence. On The Spearhead, W.F. Price has responded to this talk with a piece suggesting that the time isn’t quite right for the MRAs of the world to take up armed struggle. Not just yet, anyway. As he puts it:
It is never a good idea to pick up a gun and start shooting to address some vaguely defined injustice — that is savagery. Before the American Revolution, for example, patriots took pains to spell out a long list of grievances that justified rebellion. …
We have to make our own lists, air our grievances, and give the state the opportunity to redress them. … Before anyone resorts to the same methods the state uses against us, we must put every reasonable effort into working with the law and the political system we have. Because this effort is still in its infancy, any calls for armed resistance are entirely premature and counterproductive, and shouldn’t be taken seriously.
Obviously, the flip side of this argument for delay is a justification for killing people if these “grievances” aren’t dealt with in the way that those in the MRA would like. Price’s reference to the American Revolution is an interesting one, because of course the central issue of that struggle was, you know, taxation without representation. The colonists couldn’t vote out the king if they didn’t like his policies. In case anyone has forgotten: we actually do have the vote now, which was kind of the whole point in the first place.
Of course, many of Price’s readers are a bit more impatient than he is. In a comment that drew (last I checked) more than 40 upvotes and only two dissenting downvote, Taqman took issue with Price’s call to delay the armed struggle:
Tell that to men who are facing imminent imprisonment for failure to pay child support.
They don’t have the luxury of time and can’t wait a couple of decades for the manginas of the world to wake up and decide that a gentlemanly form of armed resistance is now acceptable.
The ironically named Firepower, meanwhile, took a little swipe at Ball’s own actions, but didn’t challenge his advice for the rest of the men of the world:
What IS crazy is having to point out that setting YOURSELF on fire is a ridiculous way to “win” anything.
Set your enemies on fire. To even have to remind this questions the long term chances of victory for such a pathetic lot.
Jean Valjean suggested that political action was pointless — due to all those damned women who vote:
No amount of “stoic logic” will make politicians see our point of view.
Politicians are in the business of getting re-elected rather than the business of good governance. So long as women are the majority there will only be tyranny of the majority.
Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) — you knew we were getting to him, right? — expressed his profound disappointment that more Spearheaders weren’t willing to embrace a violent solution:
Gee you guys are whimps and tiptoe around the ‘use of force’ like freaking ballet dancers. Are you so scared to speak about this when it is CLEAR the guvment LOVES using force against you and lots of other people too?
And he made the argument personal, explicitly denouncing, by name, the judge he claimed had “criminally abused” him with his rulings:
Judge [name redacted’s] life is now in my hands. He lives by my consent and my consent alone. …
And, like Ball, he declared judges to be essentially treasonous:
These judges pretended to be your servants. They are evil, evil people who deserve the kind of treatment reserved for those who commit treason.
There is more to Nolan’s comment(s) than that, but to get into it would require going down the rabbit-hole into his particular brand of crackpottery, which seems to involve him setting up his own courts to try judges he doesn’t like. (I frankly don’t understand his belief system and don’t care to.)
Now, it should be noted that a few Spearheaders actually objected to Nolan’s violent talk. But the last I checked, the comment I just quoted had more upvotes than downvotes. W.F. Price took more flak for suggesting men wait a little longer before taking up arms than Nolan did for, well, you saw what he wrote. That tells you a lot about The Spearhead, I think.
EDIT: Added quote from Ferdinand Bardamu; removed similar quote from The Spearhead.
Heheh, Lyn, learning about the GST being on ladyproducts is what made me a feminist 🙂 so ridiculous.
Is some one from here trying to get Balls wiki entry deleted?
How was supporting Andrea Yeates, the woman that drowned her 5 children because according to various feminists ze patriarchy made her do it, different from supporting this guy?
What are some of the double standards in play there?
*starts crying pathetically in the middle of the street*
I WANT A CARD! I WANT A CARD! BOOHOOHOOHOOHOO!
*breaks down in even more pathetic sobs and is instantly given a BMW by a passing alpha*
I don’t know what my avatar would be, though…If you could make me some kind of badass Basset Hound, that would be the AWESOMEST EVAR. Except for Ghost Bees. Ghost Bees are cool.
Ymata and Lyn, I too remember when GST came in. I think I was 12 and, while I didn’t buy my own lady products yet, I was highly incensed that they were subject to the “luxury tax”.
I can’t remember who it was now, but some Dude politician was questioned about it by the media and said, “Well, razors are taxed too, and that’s something pretty much all men use.” Ignoring the fact that a) some men never grow enough facial hair to have to shave, b) women use fucking razors too and usually pay more for them because they’re specially designed for our delicate bodies, and c) if a man doesn’t want to pay extra for razors, he can always grow out his beard! What are ciswomen supposed to do, just bleed all over the place?
Ami;
i know i don’t comment a lot, but if you aren’t sick of the Magyc cards yet… can you do me? as a Sidhe, perhaps, like maybe the first Sidhe member of the Order of the Red Hood? or, actually, anything red 🙂 [red’s my favorite color!]
currently, i think David’s card is my fav, but both the Red Hood cards are VERY close seconds! these are just AWESOME!
[ps my hair is 4 ft 5 inches long. if that helps with ideas at all 🙂 ]
to be more specific on card request [if you decide to do it] i’m cis-female and would prefer to be depicted that way – with huge red wings dripping the blood of “The Light MRAs” or something 😀 and my 4.5 feet of hair [which is dark auburn].
[this is because i just ran across your request for more/better info. if you don’t want to do a card of me, that’s cool – but if you do do one, i want to give you what you want for it 🙂 ]
the actual topic of this post:
i can’t read anymore of that letter. but i’ve read all the way down to how money is split from VAWA between Health and Human services and someplace else.
here is what’s REALLY bugging me: how the HELL did that guy not realize that most people arrested for Domestic Violence are repeat offenders? he’s citing 36 million arrested over the last 30 years, but that should be 36 millions ARRESTS, not PEOPLE ARRESTED.
fix that simple piece of misunderstand, and most of the rest of what he says just falls apart.
also: dude, i’m a woman. i spent most of my life – from age 12 to age 30 – suffering a never-ending parade of assholes who saw that i have large breasts and decided A) i was stupid and B) i was “easy”, and then hated me because i was neither [well… “easy” is arguable – if i like you and i’m not in a relationship and there’s chemistry, i’m not opposed to fuck-buddies. with condoms. no condom, no sex. anyway…]
i’ve sat in a class and been told “you’re a girl, you CAN’T understand how the military works” after i gave a 98% [grade] speech on the Chechnyan war. i’ve walked down a street and had random strange men insist i give them my phone number, or “go for a ride”, or even just grab my breast or my ass. i’ve been NOT promoted because i don’t wear makeup or skirts. i’ve been fired because “the guys can’t handle you”. my stepfather started raping me when i was 12 – and the neighbors KNEW, and didn’t do anything but gossip about how i “seduced” him [he broke 3 of my ribs the first time, i fought until he knocked me unconsious. but i “seduced” him?!] they’d say “look at you, what else are you FOR?”. every quarter in junior high and high school, i got a 4.0 – and was accused of having sex with the teachers for the grade, EVEN WHEN it was obvious that i’d done all the work and aced all the tests.
i’ve spent my entire life trying to convince doctors that i’m not “hysterical” – and now i’m 34 and permenantly disabled, because a dozen doctors back when i was 9 got an XRay that CLEARLY SHOWED i had extreme displaysia of the right hip – but they were sick of dealing with me; my surgeon, who diagnosed it when i was 30, got those records. there’s a note from the radiologist about how there was displaysia. and a reply from the “lead” doctor “patient has been discharged; she is obviously hysterical because her mother wants attention.” the radiologist persisted “i don’t think it’s hysteria when there’s an actual problem. you should call her mother and schedule surgery to fix her hip” and the reply “NO, this patient is a FEMALE HYSTERIC. we don’t coddle girls here. this case is closed”
i got MRSA, because the male nurse and male doctor who discharged me after the hip surgery i FINALLY got at 31 [that i should have had at 9] refused to believe, for SIX WEEKS, that i had an infection. i finally went to the ER and said “could you please abort this alien fetus on my upper hip?” and had to go thru two MORE surgeries to fix it. and then the anti-biotics and anti-virals *destroyed* my teeth. not to mention all the muscle tissue that had to be removed, and all the nerve damage it caused.
because i’m a GIRL, and everyone KNOWS that girls just PRETEND to have something wrong with them, because they want attention…
but somehow, it’s MEN who are discriminated against? it’s MEN who are “endangered”?!
don’t get me wrong – i like being a woman. but there are times – like every time i leave my appt in that fucking wheelchair – when i wish i HAD been a boy. THEN my only problem would be the “lack of sex”!
none of this should have happened. and the worst bit – the absolute worst fucking bit – is that i mentor teens, and i’ve met and mentored 14-year-olds who’ve had WORSE in 14 years than i have in 34.
SallyStrange – wields knitting needles of logic & DOOM!
@Kristin I remember something like that razor thing -_-;;; It always bugs me how ppl always feel like EVERYTHING needs some comparable so they can either say “we suffer too!” or “you’re being treated like everybody else!” and the thing is sometimes there just ISN’T… and this is one of those times (or MRAL trying to compare joining the army w/ abortion in that other thread) -_-;;
And I’ll def make you a card! Do you want to be a basset hound or do you want to be like a person who controls hounds? And I can make hounds cards and make you as a Green legendary creature who can control animals or something? :3
@Denelian I’m so glad you like the cards! :3 I’ll def make you! I’m getting some ideas of what to do w/ you alrdy :] And also I’m so so so sry for all the s- you’ve had to put up w/ and that’s been done to you in your life 🙁 and I’m esp sry for your asshole of a stepfather >_<;; *big big big hugs if you want them*
Ami – i ADORE internet*hugs [they don’t hurt]
i’m trying to find “the good” – lots of therapy, because PTSD needs more than a pill [actually, it almost never DOES need a pill, unless there’s a co-morbidity]. but i wasn’t trying to say “oh pitiful me” – i was trying to say “look at all this absolute shit i had to deal with, because i’m a *girl* – people would RIOT if boys were treated like that by doctors! and etc. and i don’t even have the worst life i know of – i don’t even make the top 10!” because GODS sometimes just listening to all this BS from men who are crying because they don’t have the same amount of privelege their fathers had…
there are men who i feel terrible for – my friend who is the stay-at-home-parent and now can’t get hired because he hasn’t worked in 10 years, and when he says “i was the stay at home parent” people say “don’t you have a WIFE”, because somehow it’s BAD if men prioratize their kids? my guy friends who have been molested and/or raped, and who got even less in the way of “justice” than i did – i feel for men in prison, ESPECIALLY then men in prison for smoking pot and other non-violent offenses. i think jailing men for lack of child support, when they CAN’T pay, is BS [but refusal to pay DOES deserve jail. there *IS* a difference] and i know many guys paying child support, and… most of them pay, at MOST, $100/week. many pay less. i only know ONE guy who pays more than $200/week – and he has 7 kids by 5 women.
i feel bad because Patriarchy Hurts Men, Too, and i try to fix that [along with everything else] i mentor as many boys as i do girls. but i do NOT feel bad for a man who hit his child hard enough to split her lip, who refused the VERY leneint offer of counseling in leiu of jail, and so couldn’t see his children because he refused to even attempt to show that he wouldn’t abuse them again – who eventually set himself ON FIRE because he was too much of a damned coward to do THERAPY and figure out how to interact with children WITHOUT abuse. NONE. if he did it ONCE, and could show it was an aberation – and i don’t know any different – then he should have done the work to SHOW IT. because it’s been shown that if you let a “small” abuse slide, the next one is bigger, and bigger, and bigger. i mean, my stepfather didn’t just start raping me out of the blue – there was over 2 years of beatings and gropings leading up to it [he’s dead.]
so… that’s where that rant came from. YES, Patriarchy Hurts Men, Too – i GET that. but fuck me if i’m going to prioratize a man’s hurt PRIDE over his child’s hurt BODY, ya know?
sorry – child abuse gets to me, hard. sigh. but i don’t even UNDERSTAND MRA’s and MGTOWs, not really. this is, and has been, a man’s world, and what they’re bitching about is the attempt to make it a HUMAN’S world, regardless of gender[and gender presentation, orientation, race, religion, etc etc etc]. human rights are NOT a zero-sum game, but these guys ACT like it is, and they infuriate me because they are, quite literally, living in some other universe where women have all this power. if that were REALLY the case, why do i apparantly have NONE?!
ok. i need to stop ranting now 🙂
thank you for making me a card! i’m VERY excited about it 🙂 i’ll probably add it to my avatar list for LJ and etc [properly attributed!]
if you know Personal Failure and still have creative juice and aren’t bored, you should make her one, too – i bet she’d put it in as part of her header at her newly-moved blog 😀
*hugs bacK* if you want ’em!
Wow, denelian, that’s awful. I’m so sorry.
it is. and like i said, i’m not even the worst off…
but thank you. [i feel all weird now. like everyone is looking at me because i’m suddenly naked or something… don’t mind me; i’ve been awake over 24 hours so i’m being weird]
i know i know you from elsewhere – is it Pandagon?
denelian, that’s so shitty, so sorry.
I know a guy that has arrears in child support. He was not working and called child support enforcement(California) and told them. His child support is now $50 a month. If MRA’s are to be believed, he should have had to go through a bunch of court proceedings to get it lowered or be in jail because he had not been paying it for years. It does appear my friend believed the hype and that was why he never called before to have the support lowered.
Maybe we should call him EGOhan instead.
My 4 year old put my MP3 player in a cup of water. I sent her to her room. Guess I flunked out of the Thomas Ball memorial school of hands on parenting.
A good slapping must have been in order.
@Ami, considering a card for the cockcarousel and the hamster wheel? 😀
White Line;
what an… *odd* accusation. why would any of us CARE to delete his entry? some of us might try to edit for accuracy, but delete it?
also, i think you’re misunderstanding “having sympathy for a woman who was suffering extreme mental health issues with zero support from her husband, and was insane and said insanity led to her killing her children and we feel HORRIBLE that our society still ignores problems like that and we want it to never happen again” is not “supporting” her, in the sense that NO ONE thinks she should have killed her children. we just have sympathy.
the difference is, in this case, that Ball was offered an EASY way to have his children back, after he abused one of them, and he refused to do it and then blamed everyone ELSE when his refusal didn’t somehow get him his children back.
my youngest sister has 2 kids. she’s the worst mom on the planet – our MOTHER has custody of her kids. she never hurt them at all. but she has 100 hours of parenting classes, 100 hours of anger management classes, 300 hours of AA or similar [this one is BS, it’s her boyfriend who’s the addict, but whatever], 2 years residency at the SAME ADDRESS, and 2 years of emploment in a row that she MUST complete all of before she can even begin to be allowed to try and get her kids back. Ball was just asked to go to counseling, and in a few sessions [as per what the judge said] he’d be allowed to see them again and etc. he REFUSED. he got a damned light sentence and he REFUSED. and he apparantly NEEDED that therapy.
@Xtra Yup! I’ll def make a cock carousel one!
The Hamster Wheel is how they think women’s brains work right? o_O (I can’t keep track of these things)
Also why is my text so gigantic suddenly David!? :O
Oooh, I want a card too. But I don’t know what I’d put on it 🙁
I’ll add you to the ilst xD And think of something :] What’s your interests/likes/job/etc? nething you think represents “you” (also how do you think MRAs would see you)
Ami, I love the idea of being a legendary hound-wrangling creature! Woot woot!
denelian –
Word.
But that’s the perpetual MRA refrain, assuming they acknowledge women have any problems at all; that having a hard time in relationships or having to deal with the kind of bad luck that could happen to anyone – or with the consequences of your own bad actions – is JUST THE SAME OR WORSE than living with rape or DV or discrimination or street harrassment or sexist/transphobic medical malpractice.
Anyway, props to you for being so awesome after all the shit you’ve been through. I would be honoured to play your Magyc card if it winds up in my hand. (Assuming that’s how magic cards work…I’m relying on Ami to teach me at the next Manboobz Toronto meetup.)
@Denelian,
Others have said it already, but I’m so sorry you went through all that.
@Ami,
Should I? *ponders a bit* Yeah, I want a card, too! Make me a…nature witch! Dark shoulder-length curly hair, pale skin, dark eyes, slender, and can I have a corset? And a pentacle necklace? (Sorry if I’m asking too much. lol)
Denelian – I have total sympathy for what you went through and it’s really awful when doctors don’t believe you. i had that happen to me once but fortunately in my case a simple test revealed that I was not making shit up and he believed the test and I got treated. (it was a bladder infection, much less serious but still NOT FUN AT ALL).
The one other time I had a doctor not believe me it was actually because SHE was female – this was a gynecologist telling me I couldn’t possibly feel her taking a biopsy from my cervix because I don’t have nerves there “and I’m a woman – I would know”. Uh, yeah, and your experience is that of all women? I have seen ONLY MALE GYNECOLOGISTS ever since. It is the one act of sexism I allow myself.
The thing is… and I’m trying to figure out how to say this in a non-offensive way (and I’m not trying to imply you don’t know this) but… being female did not cause your disability. It contributed to it, absolutely, and that’s utterly unfair. But if being female caused disability then a) all females would be disabled and b) no males would be disabled. And I can just totally see MRAs reading that and saying “but males are disabled too!” and “but males experience medical malpractice too!” And they would be right.
i know i know you from elsewhere – is it Pandagon?
Yes, I used to frequent Pandagon. I’m there much less often these days. I find there’s less infighting here, as well as more entertaining trolls. 🙂 But I still read Pandagon probably every other day.
Xtra, I’m totally changing my Gravitar back to what it was after viewing your video.
David;
yeah. thank you [not being flippant – i just don’t know how else to respond?]
Kristin; well, that’s why i’m not an MRA [that, and my XX-breasts-and-a-vagina combo]. i can’t agree with them that their loss of entitlement is worse than my abuse. *shrug* but i don’t have to be an MRA to work for gender equality and justice for *everyone*
Alex; again… yeah. [i swear, i sometimes wish my computer would lock me out after i’ve been awake 20 hours or i’ve taken meds… i mean, none of what i wrote is SECRET, but i don’t generally bring it up, because it’s not the sort of attention i like. but i DID bring it up, so this is me continueing to be awkward and not knowing how else to respond…]
Plymouth; yes and no: during that year [the year i was in 3rd grade, i spent a total of 5 months in the hospital] i langushed with doctor after doctor telling me, my parents, and each other “there can’t be anything wrong with her, she’s just a girl, and she’s just hysterical” while boys came in with much simpler issues and were given better treatment. i’m NOT saying “men never suffer from medical malpractice” – i’m saying “men do not suffer from systemic discrimination within the medical community because medical personel aren’t taught “men are hysterical”.”
if i had been treated when i was 9, i WOULDN’T be disabled today. [or, at least, the chances are MUCH lower – especially because MRSA didn’t EXIST back then and i wouldn’t have gotten it and it wouldn’t have destroyed so many nerves…] and if i’d been MALE, they wouldn’t have dismissed me as “hysterical” when there were actual, provable things wrong with me.
that said – WTF! with that OB/GYN?!?! i’m going in tomorrow to get the other fallopian tube blocked with Essure – and she is going to [again!] numb my cervix, because a cervix DOES have nerve endings, and let me tell you, i’ve been in constant chronic pain for *25 YEARS* and i’ve NEVER had anything hurt as bad as the injections [PLURAL] to numb my cervix.
OB/GYNs [unless i was trying to get steralized – that’s been a long fight, since i turned 18 – because pregnancy will kill me. sigh] are the ONE set of medical people who i HAVEN’T had problems with. i’m sorry you got a horrible one. don’t knock how bad a bladder infection can be – like any other infection, if not treated it can kill you, and the pain SUCKS.
and Kristen – you seem to have a general grasp of the mechanics 🙂 the actual PLAY of Magic [and, thus, Magyc] is pretty simple 🙂 go ahead, play me! lol
Captain Bathrobe;
yay! i’m not losing my mind 🙂 i’m about the same w/ Pandagon – i read it 3 or so times a week, but almost never comment anymore…
and you’re right, it *IS* generally more fun here 🙂