Good news, ladies and manginas: Apparently some MRAs don’t think it’s time to go out and start shooting people. At least not quite yet.
Some background: In recent days numerous MRAs have taken up the cause of a man named Thomas Ball – who burned himself to death outside a courthouse in Keane, New Hampshire in a protest against what he saw as unfair treatment in family court. Ferdinand Bardamu of In Male Fide has declared him “a martyr for the cause of men’s rights, a casualty of feminism’s stripping one half of the population of their humanity.”
Before killing himself, Ball wrote a long manifesto outlining his grievances and suggesting that the time had come for men “to start burning down police stations and courthouses,” describing the inhabitants of such buildings as “[c]ollaborators who are no different than the Vichy of France or the Quislings of Norway during the Second World War … So burn them out. “ (He offered specific advice on how best to do this, including tips on how to select the proper bottles to use for Molotov cocktails.)
All this has inspired some in the MRA to start talking ominously about violence. On The Spearhead, W.F. Price has responded to this talk with a piece suggesting that the time isn’t quite right for the MRAs of the world to take up armed struggle. Not just yet, anyway. As he puts it:
It is never a good idea to pick up a gun and start shooting to address some vaguely defined injustice — that is savagery. Before the American Revolution, for example, patriots took pains to spell out a long list of grievances that justified rebellion. …
We have to make our own lists, air our grievances, and give the state the opportunity to redress them. … Before anyone resorts to the same methods the state uses against us, we must put every reasonable effort into working with the law and the political system we have. Because this effort is still in its infancy, any calls for armed resistance are entirely premature and counterproductive, and shouldn’t be taken seriously.
Obviously, the flip side of this argument for delay is a justification for killing people if these “grievances” aren’t dealt with in the way that those in the MRA would like. Price’s reference to the American Revolution is an interesting one, because of course the central issue of that struggle was, you know, taxation without representation. The colonists couldn’t vote out the king if they didn’t like his policies. In case anyone has forgotten: we actually do have the vote now, which was kind of the whole point in the first place.
Of course, many of Price’s readers are a bit more impatient than he is. In a comment that drew (last I checked) more than 40 upvotes and only two dissenting downvote, Taqman took issue with Price’s call to delay the armed struggle:
Tell that to men who are facing imminent imprisonment for failure to pay child support.
They don’t have the luxury of time and can’t wait a couple of decades for the manginas of the world to wake up and decide that a gentlemanly form of armed resistance is now acceptable.
The ironically named Firepower, meanwhile, took a little swipe at Ball’s own actions, but didn’t challenge his advice for the rest of the men of the world:
What IS crazy is having to point out that setting YOURSELF on fire is a ridiculous way to “win” anything.
Set your enemies on fire. To even have to remind this questions the long term chances of victory for such a pathetic lot.
Jean Valjean suggested that political action was pointless — due to all those damned women who vote:
No amount of “stoic logic” will make politicians see our point of view.
Politicians are in the business of getting re-elected rather than the business of good governance. So long as women are the majority there will only be tyranny of the majority.
Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c) — you knew we were getting to him, right? — expressed his profound disappointment that more Spearheaders weren’t willing to embrace a violent solution:
Gee you guys are whimps and tiptoe around the ‘use of force’ like freaking ballet dancers. Are you so scared to speak about this when it is CLEAR the guvment LOVES using force against you and lots of other people too?
And he made the argument personal, explicitly denouncing, by name, the judge he claimed had “criminally abused” him with his rulings:
Judge [name redacted’s] life is now in my hands. He lives by my consent and my consent alone. …
And, like Ball, he declared judges to be essentially treasonous:
These judges pretended to be your servants. They are evil, evil people who deserve the kind of treatment reserved for those who commit treason.
There is more to Nolan’s comment(s) than that, but to get into it would require going down the rabbit-hole into his particular brand of crackpottery, which seems to involve him setting up his own courts to try judges he doesn’t like. (I frankly don’t understand his belief system and don’t care to.)
Now, it should be noted that a few Spearheaders actually objected to Nolan’s violent talk. But the last I checked, the comment I just quoted had more upvotes than downvotes. W.F. Price took more flak for suggesting men wait a little longer before taking up arms than Nolan did for, well, you saw what he wrote. That tells you a lot about The Spearhead, I think.
EDIT: Added quote from Ferdinand Bardamu; removed similar quote from The Spearhead.
Wo0t! I used blockqutes successfully for the first time! Do I win anything?
I do like how he’s slowly backing down on everything he said now tho :3 This is one of my first long exposures to Eoghan, so I am learning his ways xD
@Sarah:
You haven’t heard of this? (Skip to 1:50 for the quote)
Eoghan, you lie. Not as well as a rug, that’s a rug’s job. One poster said anything. At least one poster said that Ball got screwed by aspects of the system.
And you have the gall to insinuate that posts were deleted to hide the widespread glee at Ball’s death.
You are at worse than the person who said they were happy about Ball’s death. That person was honest, and didn’t impute false opinions to others.
You, you are a hypocritical worm, a liar, perjured in your own denials of fact, and willing to present an accusation of perfidy and cover up in your false allegations against those who disagree with you.
How are you any different from those you are telling us are so low?
“I do like how he’s slowly backing down on everything he said now tho :3 This is one of my first long exposures to Eoghan, so I am learning his ways xD”
Show me where I did that?
I already admitted to dancing on graves but I’m quite certain Tom Ball’s wasn’t one of them. Isn’t he in New Hampshire or something? I’ve never been to any cemeteries there and haven’t even been to New Hampshire since 2004, so, nope, definitely haven’t danced on his grave.
Sometimes I also sit by graves and peacefully contemplate:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/plymouths/5129571187/in/set-72157625156505509/
(that’s in Brooklyn, NY not NH. Also it is my most favorite picture of me ever in the history of everness.)
Slightly off-topic re. Nolan’s comment comparing men who aren’t thirsting for blood to “ballet dancers”: male ballet dancers epitomize the masculine aesthetic, as far as I am concerned. And they are awesomely fit. Your average male ballet dancer can snap your garden-variety Internet misogynist like a twig.
One. One poster celebrated the death of Tom Ball. Multiple posters, in fact the majority of posters, denounced that celebration. David explained in detail why he was not erasing the post. And the original post contains nothing that can be reasonably considered “celebrating” the death of Tom Ball.
Your statement is false.
Now, when allegations of child abuse are made and proven, the perpetrator should be ordered to counseling. What should the system do if the perpetrator refuses to undergo counseling? What should the other parent do?
“You are at worse than the person who said they were happy about Ball’s death. That person was honest, and didn’t impute false opinions to others.
You, you are a hypocritical worm, a liar, perjured in your own denials of fact, and willing to present an accusation of perfidy and cover up in your false allegations against those who disagree with you.”
That also needs a citation, I’m directing accusations at those that celebrated and exploited his death to engage in hatred of all fathers rights and men’s rights people, and those that tolerated it, only.
You just said “show me where I said that” so… first… you ARE Eoghan right? xD
You’re complaining about people exploiting Tom Ball’s death and you can’t even bother to remember his name.
The majority of posters on this thread have not engaged in any celebration of Tom Ball’s death. Your statement is erroneous.
Nobinayamu: “Erroneous” is putting it charitably. Ironic, isn’t it, that he is complaining about false allegations.
I neither celebrate nor grieve Tom Ball’s death. It is too disconnected from my life for me to be able to relate to it and form an emotional reaction.
I’m a solid T (90%) on the Meyers-Briggs scale of F-T though so that shouldn’t be too surprising.
Citation: “Multiple posters objected to celebrating Tom Ball’s death.”
Yeah, some celebrated it, the posts were not deleted last time I checked, it others objected, some were delighted to use him to slander the whole men’s movement.
That’s where you said it… the posts were not deleted, last time I checked” is the insinuation (because ever after… the niggling imputation that some might have been is now present).
So, were are these, ‘some’ who were, “delighted” to use him to slander the whole men’s movement? Because even FuckMRAs said she wasn’t tarring the MRA movement, with him… just that she was glad he was dead.
As you said… citation(s) needed (and I notice you haven’t defended the SAVE stuff I chased down. speaking of citations).
Hoo boy. yoga kicked my ass. I need to not take a 3 week break between sessions again. And I see that this thread is just gone now. I can’t even keep up! Keep it up, friends!
@Eoghan:
You know, I gotta second Ami’s question. You haven’t yet said anything about posters addressing you as Eoghan, so come clean. Are you him? If not, we probably shouldn’t continue addressing you as such, right? Its only polite to let people know who they are talking to.
@Kirby: No! I hadn’t seen that! Haha! It reminds me of ICP’s fucking magnets. THE MOON CONTROLS THE TIDE GUYS!
@Plymouth: That’s a lovely picture!
“Now, when allegations of child abuse are made and proven, the perpetrator should be ordered to counseling. What should the system do if the perpetrator refuses to undergo counseling? What should the other parent do?”
The mother as far as I know was forced to call the police under the threat of losing her child to the system, which would have been horrific for the child. So he was arrested at work and told not to go home and didn’t know that his wife’s hand had been forced and he turned his back on the whole situation..
“I could have made a phone call or two and borrowed the money. But I am done being bullied for being a man. I cannot believe these people in Washington are so stupid to think they can govern Americans with an iron fist. Twenty-five years ago, the federal government declared war on men. It is time now to see how committed they are to their cause. It is time, boys, to give them a taste of war.”
Look I’m not defending this guy at all really, he might be the wrong self immolation / suicide to have as a poster child for men’s rights, he did hit a child, he had PTSD, but he has left a story about the feminist state. Many that are caught up in that inhuman system just quietly kill themselves and the story never gets told. Bells story didn’t get further in the mainstream than the local paper it seems, the last guy was just a foot note too, that’s the thing, nobody cares about the guys that are destroyed by the feminist state, and they are mocked, mocking them is an internet game, isnt it?
Somebody is ignoring the question here xD
Is there a RIGHT self immolation / suicide to have as a poster child for men’s right?
And the guy’s name is BALL.
And I care very, very deeply about people with mental health issues. I don’t think it’s a feminism thing, and I do think they are underrepresented in the media and unfairly represented, and not sufficiently cared for. It’s not a feminist thing, it calls for reform in the mental health sector.
Kirby – He said he’d commented on my blog… but he hasn’t… Eoghan has commented on my blog.
The mother as far as I know was forced to call the police under the threat of losing her child to the system, which would have been horrific for the child. So he was arrested at work and told not to go home and didn’t know that his wife’s hand had been forced and he turned his back on the whole situation..
You make it sound like an atrocity that a case of child abuse was discovered against the parents’ will–like it should be a person’s decision when and where he’ll be arrested for child abuse?
he might be the wrong self immolation / suicide to have as a poster child for men’s rights,
Damn skippy, mister.
he did hit a child, he had PTSD, but he has left a story about the feminist state.
And that story is “we hold people responsible for abusing children and not complying with treatment.” Although the end was horrific in this case, I’m generally okay with that story.
@Eoghan (if that is really your name):
“Look I’m not defending this guy at all really, … but”
Aaaaaaand scene. And jesus effing mother mary and joseph you still can’t get Ball’s name right. After its been pointed out to you multiple times and after YOU EVEN RECOGNIZED THE ONES WHO DID. If you can’t get something simple like this right, how on earth do you expect us to treat you with any sort of respect in conversation?
And I know, very intimately, the problems with our health care system. It’s such a difficult problem. =[
A lot of people don’t even want to treat mental illness as a real illness, instead of just being weak. And a lot of insurance companies refuse to give the same coverage to mental illness as physical illness.
And let’s not even talk about the social stigma!
Ahhh, strawfeminism… Most feminists I know think that judging people on the basis of their sex, attributing abilities/thought processes etc. to one sex and a different set to another sex is sexism. Which is bad. And the whole ‘women should look after the children while men bring home money thing’ is, last I checked, a patriarchal thing and feminists have been fighting against it.
@Sarah no no no, it’s not any of that.. it’s the feminist state e_e
(and you know my history and that I agree w/ you … getting rid of the stigma around PTSD, depression, suicide, mental illness, and things that aren’t mental illnesses but are erroneously considered such by society and societal narratives and our medical and mental health practitioners : )