It’s always handy when one of the MGTOW brethren sums up one of the tribe’s beliefs in a handy little post. The following is what every single MRTOWer out there (not to mention many MRAs and PUAs and even some non-acronymified misogynists) seems to believe about how women live their lives today. When I say “every single MGTOWer” I’m not really exaggerating for impact – well, maybe a teensy bit. But I don’t think I’ve ever run across an MGTOWer who doesn’t take all of the following on faith.
Like many manosphere beliefs about women – like the whole “women only fuck the top 20% of men” thing – there is of course not a shred of evidence for any of this. It’s an essentially religious belief, accepted on faith. MGTOWers are like monks in the douchiest religion ever.
Anyway, fresh from a post by “Rogue” on NiceGuy’s MGTOW forum, here’s how all you ladies are living your lives:
The modern woman’s life plan goes like this:
Step 1) From first sexual awakening throughout her twenties, fuck as many Alpha Asshole men (hereafter referred to as AA) as she can in a quest of sheer narcissistic hedonism. May give birth to an AA spawn during this time; party lifestyle and general female educative path (elementary teacher, social worker) results in shaky finances.
[citation needed]
Step 2) Oops, getting close to or past age 30? Find a Nice Guy Beta (hereafter referred to as NGB), dupe him into marriage with sex (he’s generally grateful for the attention, having had less than stellar success with women throughout his twenties), use his money to stabilize shaky finances. Strong likelihood of having another child or two; may again be AA spawn due to affairs. Pack on 30 pounds of fat (at least!). Cut off sex with NGB since she now has him over a barrel and was never really attracted to him in the first place. Get steadily angrier and more dissatisfied.
[citation needed]
Step 3) Divorce at or slightly before age 40; attempt to remount AA cock carousel, this time as a cougar. Fail miserably because no AA wants an old, fat female body and a loose pussy that looks like a hunk of roast beef that’s been worked over with a dozen ball-peen hammers for a month. Said failure twists her mind until her only remaining pleasure in life is to fuck with ex-NGB in various ways such as taking him back to court to raise CS payments, or denying him visitation rights to his children.
[citation needed]
Step 4) Accept that she’s past her time for the AA cock carousel; become a companion to many cats.
[citation needed]
And what’s with all the cat-hatred, anyway? Cats are adorable, endlessly fascinating little monsters who do no harm to anyone, unless you count all the times my cat has attacked me without provocation and the fact that she just threw up her dinner and is now insistently demanding a second dinner. To paraphrase Samuel L. Jackson’s character in Jackie Brown, you can trust cats to be cats.
Anyway, back to the sermon:
The marriage strike is just an attempt to short-circuit steps 2 and 3, and force women to ride step 1 as long as they can, then transition directly to step 4. Will women like the result if, instead of rushing to save them at age 30, men just shake their heads and walk away? I think it’s an experiment worth trying.
Once again: please, please, please walk away. Walk far away. Become monks in your douchy religion. Just remember that most monks who take a vow of chastity don’t spend the rest of their lives whining about how women are a bunch of filthy bitches.
Oh, and before anyone pops in with a “why do you pick on the outliers, this guy doesn’t represent bla bla bla,” the post (which naturally got nothing but huzzahs on NiceGuy’s forum) was also highlighted on the MRA blog What Men Are Saying About Women as an example of “superb” discussion of the Woman Question. This bullshit is Manosphere-Approved bullshit.
So what exactly is your point, Marc?
I’ve combed through your comments, and your arguments seem as insubstantial and formless as half-done Jell-O. The most I can tell is that you somehow object to the existence of this blog, because you feel that MRA/MGTOW/PUA should be immune from mockery… but beyond that, even as to why they should be so immune, I’m stumped.
what would you do if all the MRAs would suddenly heavily moderate their forums and comment sections? Commit suicide because your life has no meaning anymore?
I don’t know about moderation, but if all the MRAs would suddenly stop talking like women were a malevolent alien species and mean it, I would throw a goddamn party. I would like people to stop hating and misunderstanding us–but I’m not going to shut up about it until they do.
what would you do if all the MRAs would suddenly heavily moderate their forums and comment sections? Commit suicide because your life has no meaning anymore?
I can’t speak for everyone else on this blog, but I’d probably play more Star Trek: Online.
You followed with The world certainly doesn’t look that way. And the argument that this is only because there are more “successful” (in the sense of rich) men than women is just to weak. Then only the proportions should be different, like there are more women chasing rich men than men chasing rich women.So, yeah, you are arguing that women are hot for “status” as a class. You never said it was irresistable but you sure as hell said it was widespread.
No, I didn’t say that. I said, at a first glance, it looks women on the average value status more than men, but I don’t know for sure.
No, I didn’t say that. I said, at a first glance, it looks women on the average value status more than men, but I don’t know for sure.
I’d say that, on average, more people are killed per year in garden gnome attacks than die from falling frozen blocks of urine.
But I don’t know for sure.
Here’s a hint: If you don’t know for sure, then do some research before spouting off in public. You’ll learn something, and will likely save yourself from looking like a jackass.
Marc: “Lol, just one questions: what would you do if all the MRAs would suddenly heavily moderate their forums and comment sections? Commit suicide because your life has no meaning anymore?”
Lol, that’s not something you should worry about, Marc. In any event, it’s not like MRA’s sit there all day spewing misogyny and rationalizing it as a favor to us, girls, to give us a reason to live. They give us plenty of giggles, though.
“So where are the worthwhile examples that we’re missing, Marc? You can link us.”
Lol, just one questions: what would you do if all the MRAs would suddenly heavily moderate their forums and comment sections? Commit suicide because your life has no meaning anymore?
Translation: I can’t prove my point, so I’ll try a weak insult instead.
Thank god you’re not a guy who gets bothered by what people say on the internet, Marc.
Damn, this thread moves fast.
Marc | June 22, 2011 at 12:29 pm
And goodbye for now, you’re all posting way too fast.
Marc | June 22, 2011 at 1:04 pm
I never ever said such a thing and I really don’t have any time for such games.
(time gap… 35 minutes)
Marc | June 22, 2011 at 1:08 pm
Time gap… four minutes
Marc | June 22, 2011 at 1:41 pm
Time gap 33 minutes
So now we know that 35 minutes = a gap long enough to need an announced exit…. that, or maybe it’s four minutes.
Marc: Occams razor isn’t a logical rule, it’s a logical principle. Have some pointers: How Stuff Works: Occam’s Razor and Princpia Cybernetica
The PC piece is on point:
For example, through two data points in a diagram you can always draw a straight line, and induce that all further observations will lie on that line. However, you could also draw an infinite variety of the most complicated curves passing through those same two points, and these curves would fit the empirical data just as well. Only Occam’s razor would in this case guide you in choosing the “straight” (i.e. linear) relation as best candidate model. A similar reasoning can be made for n data points lying in any kind of distribution.
So… do as is done with other (provably valid statistical models) and toss the outliers, or…throw up one’s hands and say.. there are so many ways to interpret the data that it can’t be done…. (and this is where the MGTOWs, and you, screw up) so the really complicated special pleadings are probably right.
So yeah, the authors of that (peer reviewed) study applied Occam’s Razor, and I correctly referenced it.
(care to show me… with math the errors in statistical methodology in that paper? I’ll settle for some symbolic logic showing errors in underlying structure too. I’ll accept a logical fallacy as disproving it too).
*yawns* Wow the comments rly moved xD We have a new a new blog fertilizer xD
And now he’s become a concern troll who flounces, then realizes ppl are still talking about him and just has to come back cuz he can’t let it go XD
Also guyz, we’re the WORST MOST UNIQUE SNARK SITE ON THE INTERNET? xD rly? I think we need that on the blog now: #1 SITE OF ASSHOLES, DIFFERENT THAN EVERYTHING ELSE!!!
Ah <3
Hey Holly! You're around! Yay! I was trying to make your card last night and I came up w/ 4 pictures but you weren't on to look at them and ppl are split on what they are… so I'll leave it up to you! 😀 (will split the links into 2 parts b/c otherwise it gets caught int he spam filter)
http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/home/images/armiesofWAR/darkelves/Sorceress/sorceress-concept-03.jpg
http://www.clydecaldwell.com/jpgs/large_images/elsbeth.jpg
@Holly
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs51/f/2009/278/0/7/Sorceress_by_Leevitron.jpg
http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs13/f/2007/036/b/7/sorceress_by_kir_tat.jpg
These are the other 2 😀
http://s749.photobucket.com/albums/xx134/ami_angelwings/Magyc%20Cards/
And here’s the album for the whole set so far :3 (if nebody missed it last night)
The second one has a dragon! I want the second one!
And those cards are awesome, Ami.
Marc: Why should I do that? That’s absolutely not my intention. I just wanted to HELP you, see that as a compliment, I still hope that you can be cured.
But Marc… I’m asking for your help. I’ve not found any of these non-cherry picked sites. I’ve been looking at MRA/PUA sites for a long time. I’ve followed there links, I’ve read their manifestos. I’ve seen the comments they leave on my blog when I make comments about stupid shit.
Help a guy out here, show me some who aren’t batshit stupid and misogynistic
To help you doing something more productive with your life than bothering what some people somewhere on the Internet writes.
Well, yes, Someone iS WRONG on the internet. But you know what, this isn’t the be all and end all of my existence. This is what I do to relax. I’m a cook, a photographer, an instructor. I garden, ride motorcycles, hike, camp, write the odd poem, play the pennywhistle.
I’m a retired army interrogator, I’ve been a machinist, an actor (and I still dabble in that), modeled for video game covers, bred snakes and mice and chickens and guinea pigs.
So you aren’t actually likely to be able, from writing the sorts of weak-tea arguments you’ve been showing here, to help me do anything more meaningful, and productive than that, certainly not with my spare time.
What you think of me is based on what you see here. It hurts me, wounds me to the very soul, that you think me mean-spirited and small-minded because people who think women aren’t people, are dirtbags and morons.
For hero cards: David Futrelle, Eoghan, MRAL, Plymouth all got cards xD David’s card helped me clarify the story and the design to me. xD Feminists will be evil and represented by black, MRAs are good and are represented by white :] I’m making the feminists here kinda like the forsaken in WoT, w/ them being fallen former upstanding citizens who joined the Darknyss (I considered calling it the Pinkness/Pinknyss xD) for petty reasons (or in Plymouth’s case cuz she was experimenting on humans xD )
@Pecunium speak for yourself, this is actually all I do xD I am actually a sentient computer virus! (an incredibly cute one :3 ) XD
@Holly ty! :3 And the Dragon one was the first one I saw to pick for you but then I got indecisive xD But the dragon one is rly great :3
“Lol, just one questions: what would you do if all the MRAs would suddenly heavily moderate their forums and comment sections? Commit suicide because your life has no meaning anymore?”
There’s always Tumblr. And Failbook. And Cute Overload. And Everyday Cute. And…
Marc: Own your words. You said we can make assumptions, “a priori”, then when we pointed out what your a priori assumptions mean… you try to weasel, and say, “Well, it could be, but we don’t know”.
Mind you, “it could be, we don’t know’ is how you try to discount the stats in that study, then you try to say, “it could be (that men are afraid in an anonymous survey of saying they are virgins… a vast number, who then make up just the right numbers to make it all work if the Alphas are getting all the sex; in different countriess) and say we ought to accept that as a real possibility.
So… who needs the help here?
“I am actually a sentient computer virus! (an incredibly cute one :3 )”
If only all viruses were so adorable. You could come shut down my PC anytime. 😛
So what exactly is your point, Marc?
I’ve combed through your comments, and your arguments seem as insubstantial and formless as half-done Jell-O. The most I can tell is that you somehow object to the existence of this blog, because you feel that MRA/MGTOW/PUA should be immune from mockery… but beyond that, even as to why they should be so immune, I’m stumped.
They shouldn’t be immune, of course not!
Honestly, I am jealous of David’s success… there are so many good blogs, entertaining, intelligent, well-written where the bloggers really make an effort to deliver high quality content and they don’t get a fraction of attention he gets.
All he does is to browse the internet, the bottom of the pile, cherry-picks the worst of the worst, posts that here mocks it and tries to depict himself as the defender of common sense.
He only argues against something, not against the reasonable stuff MRAs write, he’s only into mocking, of course we’re not allowed to complain, that’s the purpose of this site. He himself has no standpoint, never revealing his standpoint, never arguing for something.
So to argue against him would mean to defend the ridiculous stuff he mocks, which is clearly impossible. He has made himself pretty immune from any critique and that’s always a good recipe to be boring.
Also the stuff from the MRAs may be funny for a while but it’s getting old so soon, it just repeats itself again and again and again…
I am not against this blog per se, but the attention he gets makes me a cultural pessimist.
Marc: If they were to moderate the fora to eliminate the comments… We’d just have to do what this post did: Most the top posts.
It’s not like comments are all that get mocked… hell, it’s not even half of what Dave mocks. The subject matter is right there for everyone to see.
What the comments show is the broad sweep of the “movement”. They make it possible to do a sounding of the depths. Places like AVM and the Spearhead are kind enough to have up/down votes so one can measure the way the community as a whole views things.
But the comments… not needed to engage in mockery. The big-boys on the top of the bill are capable of providing more than enough red meat to keep us busy.
Most of David’s success is because, as Ami pointed out, the trolls that come here are like comment fertilizer. The posts are one thing, but if you actually read what goes on in this comment section, it’s that a troll will show up and instigate a massive derailing. Then the rest of us will make fun of that troll in real-time, for things they are saying in the moment. Without the trolls to feed, this blog would be like a sparsely stocked petting zoo. People would still show up to pet a goat or lamb, but it’s the drama llamas that make it really fun.
And David argues for quite a bit – rape is wrong, women should not be harassed, women should not be made to feel inferior to men because of their gender, women are not psychotic sperm-stealers. And men who think that women are inferior, psychotic sperm-stealers are worthy of mockery.
And please, where are these reasonable, non-misogynist, non-sexist MRA blogs and articles? Because I occasionally read some of the stuff on the Boob Roll, and it’s pretty much guaranteed to be way more hateful than anything David posts here – in large part because David is pointing to an individual person, and those posters and commentors want to condemn whole swathes of people they’ve never met or encounters.
Did you ever think that maybe some of the attention that David gets is because some of us are sick to death of MRAs whining about how they can’t have what they want just for the asking anymore, and we like this place as a way to escape all that?
Marc: not against the reasonable stuff MRAs write,
Where is it? You (and all the rest of the MRA apologists) keep talking about it. But you don’t have the time to show it to us. You are trying to help us, but how? By telling us we’re wrong, but we have to find the answers ourselves? What sort of help is that?
And, contra your posistion, Dave is arguing for something. He’s arguing that the people who spew crap like the stuff he highlights, deserve to be mocked. That what they believe ought to be laughed off the stage. I’m going to quote Jim Wright, of Stonekettle Station, and at length:
You’re sitting on a bench, reading a book, enjoying the sun, poisoning the pigeons in the park. Whatever it is that you do in the half hour when you’re not pestering me here. This strange old dude with a funny walk and bleached hair comes mooching up. He asks if he can sit down. He seems harmless enough, so you nod to the empty half of the bench, and raise your eyebrow so he knows not to start anything. He sits down in sort of a weird space alien sort of way, and after a minute says: “Say listen, after work a bunch of us are going down to Mexico for margaritas and to have our funberries hacked off by a drug lord’s plastic surgeon, then we’re going to dress up in purple capes and white sneakers and drink the strychnine Kool-Aid and put plastic bags over our faces. We’re doing this because Zombie-Jesus-who-lives-in-my-head says the Earth is about to be destroyed by aliens but we’re going to abandon our bodies and go live on the comet with the comet people. We’ve got an extra seat, you interested?”
To which you reply, (a) “Whoa Doggies, count me in!” or (b) “Piss off you creepy little eunuch or I will snatch you up by the top of your pointy bald grape and jam my Thick Tip Sharpie into your eye so deep that I’ll be able to write Fuck You on the inside of your skull in four inch high indelible ink.”
The correct answer seems obvious doesn’t it? (it also explains why I always carry a Sharpie, just in case you were wondering)
But, see, here’s the thing: thirty nine people chose option (a).
It wasn’t a secret. They told people. They put out movies. They had a website – they still have a website. And nobody said to them, listen here, you stupid silly bastards… Everybody just sort of said, well, they’re a little odd.
And it happens all of the time. Jonestown. The Branch Davidians. That bunch in France what burned themselves up along with their kids. Those obnoxious goofs who like to wave their bibles in your face while you’re waiting for the light to change. Creationists. Tom Cruise.
And people shake their heads and say “how could this happen?”
How could it happen?
It happens because nobody told these deluded idiots to shut up and stop acting like fucking retards – until it was too late (Note: about the use of the term “retards,” yes I know it’s offensive to some people. It is however an accurate description in certain cases. I don’t use it lightly. Further explanation in the comments section). It happens because we are far too indulgent when it comes to this kind of nonsense. It happens because when somebody looks you in the eye and says with a straight face, “I believe Jennifer Love Hewitt really does talk to ghosts, it’s totally true,” you don’t immediately break into gales of taunting laughter and follow them about for the rest of the day ridiculing their stupidity with sarcastic barbed wit in front of their friends and co-workers.
Look, if you tell people you hear voices in your head commanding you to kill the President because Jodie Foster will dig it and want to have your babies, we lock your silly ass up and make fun of you on TV. But if you tell people you hear a voice in your head and he’s telling you the president is a space alien in a rubber human suit, the TEA Party of Nevada will ask you to be their Senator – as long as you say the voice in your head sounds like Jesus.
Sure, Jim, OK, but that’s not the same as creationism, or holocaust denial, or moon landing hoaxers, or the Anti-LHC crowd, or Neo-conservatism.
Yes it is, it is exactly the same.
Look, I’m not talking about restricting the freedom of speech or freedom to worship – what I’m talking about is intervention. I’m talking about cranking the public bullshit filter up to 11.
If somebody tells you that that the magical science fiction power of L. Ron Hubbard gives them the ability to fly, are you denying them their 1st Amendment rights when you prevent them from stepping off the roof? Or, in my case, not. Because to be perfectly honest, personally, I don’t really give a fig if they jump off that roof or not. Stupid is a terminal disease, it’s going to get you sooner or later – hopefully before somebody convinces you to cut your balls off. And, hey, you know, if they do fly well maybe I’ll go pick up a copy of Dianetics, and if they go bounce bounce squish well that’s just one less moron in the gene pool as far as I’m concerned – speaking of Scientology, hopefully it’s Vinnie Barbarino, that way I don’t ever have to watch another one of his shitty movies, I’ve never forgiven that hammy bastard for Battlefield Earth.
But what about the people on the sidewalk below? Don’t we have a moral obligation to keep those poor bastards from getting crushed by falling idiots?
Yes. Damn it.
We do.
But you can’t do that by debate.
Debating them only rewards their bad behavior. Debating them only encourages them more. Having a real scientist like Plait engage them in debate automatically elevates their nonsense to legitimacy. When PZ Myers goes after creationists, he gives them equal footing with science. Again, don’t get me wrong here, those scientists are professionals and I have nothing but respect for people like Michael Shermer – but they should come with the same warning as those Mythbuster Guys, i.e. don’t try this at home. Ever.
And it wouldn’t be necessary if more people would tell these idiots to step off.
The proper response to crazy is: Shut the fuck up.
It’s not for the government to tell people their beliefs have jumped the sharktopus, it’s up to us. Each and every one of us.
That’s why I do it.