Today, a trip down memory lane to revisit an until-recently lost classic of modern misogyny: Jay Hammers’ “The Age of Consent is Misandry.” The piece, originally published on Jay Hammers’Men’s Rights blog, inspired some heated discussions amongst MRAs online, with some harshly criticizing the piece as an apologia for pedophilia and others hailing it as a “politically incorrect” masterpiece. Stung by the criticism, Hammers ultimately took his blog down. But the piece has since been resurrected on the Human-Stupidity blog – another blog that seems rather unhealthily obsessed with the supposed injustice of men not being allowed to fuck underage girls.
Here are some of its highlights (that is, lowlights); the headlines are mine.
ALL ABOUT THE MENZ
The arbitrary age of consent is not about protecting women/girls. It is about valuing females and their virtue over males and their freedom. The intent of the laws is to stop older men from having sex with younger women and that is how it is enforced. It was never intended to stop younger men from having sex with older women.
MORE BETA BLUES
Age of consent laws are designed to punish beta males. A beta male in his 20s, unsuccessful with women his own age who are infused with a sense of feminist entitlement and deride all but the top alpha males who take interest in them, who seeks companionship with a younger, sexually mature female who desires him, should not go to prison for acting on that which is normal male sexuality.
FEMINISTS WHO SUPPORT AGE OF CONSENT LAWS ARE TREATING WOMEN LIKE CHILDREN
If we are to treat women as children then we should be consistent. Young women who have sex with older men are as much victims as women who have sex with a pick-up artist after meeting at a club. In both cases, feminists are angry because the woman has been “fooled” into having sex with a less than ideal mate in terms of value. …
This is what makes feminists angry and this is why age of consent exists still today, because it is assumed women are not mentally mature enough to give consent AND because older women want to limit men’s options to increase their own value in the sexual marketplace.
BUT WOMEN ARE CHILDREN, BASICALLY
Older women … are generally not of a much higher intelligence level than teenage girls. The big difference between the two is that older women are less attractive and that is what makes them so damn angry. …
Females generally do not significantly mature mentally past puberty so it should always be illegal for any woman to have sex or it should never be illegal for any woman to have sex. There is no arbitrary age where females suddenly become self-aware, realizing the consequences of their actions, and stop seeking out alpha males. Thus there must not be an arbitrary age of consent for sex.
A MODEST PROPOSAL
If anything, it should be illegal for women to have sex with men until men have been educated on the truths of women, Marriage 2.0, Game, feminism, and men’s rights.
Discuss?
NWOS
Thanks for your response. I was a bit thrown by your assessment that death by disease is an unnatural cause, but it now occurs to me that you’re coming from a literalist pre-lapsarian position, that Adam and Eve, who in their innocence knew neither pain nor disease, were immortal until the apple incident, and that at 965 Methuselah obviously had a far longer lifespan than we do.
Literalists: they can’t be reasoned with, they can’t be bargained with, they don’t understand evidence or logic, and they never ever stop until they’ve bored us all to death.
@sara who said –
“@Natasha, nice try but as I recall, the first quote you attribute to Holly was actually a follow up to the second quote, and clarified her position. If you can’t defend your position without twisting facts, fuck off”
I know she was clarifying, her words make that obvious….the fact remains that she clarified by saying that she hates mra’s….I didnt RE-accuse her of hating men you dumbass
ngz – I’m not actually Eve Ensler. It was a joke. I’m not about to justify or defend the opinions of “women in general,” because I am only a woman in specific, and I disapprove of older women having sex with younger boys.
… which you apparently don’t, so I don’t know why this is even one of your arguments.
I was posting with a man who dated a much younger woman recently and he said that she, if anyone was in control.
Sure, in the “ho ho, she really wears the pants” sense of making immediate decisions. But even being “controlled” by a much younger person is exploitative–it’s still a case of someone who should be capable of adult love taking advantage of the fact that young love is much more passionate and indiscriminate and ultimately foolish.
My current same age partner, likes to role play a 15 year old girl being taught by me, a man more than twice her age.
Yeah, and one of my friends likes to role play as a dog. Doesn’t give you a licence to fuck actual dogs.
@Natasha:
The first quote was a followup to the second. So, in effect, this is What Holly said:
“I don’t hate men, NWO. I hate MRAs.” ~Holly
“To be specific, I don’t even necessarily hate people who are in favor of men’s rights.” ~Holly
Is this really that hard to understand?
Natasha – I hate (the evil kind, which as far as I can tell is all of them, because for all the accusations of “cherry-picking” on Manboobz, I’ve never seen any counterevidence presented by the numerous MRAs who post here–they all seem far more invested in saying “but fucking teenagers is our right!” than in saying “we don’t all want to fuck teenagers!”) MRAs, but I don’t think it’s right for them to hate feminists.
This is not hypocrisy. This is because feminism is a worthwhile and ultimately pro-human ideology, and MRA is hateful fringe nonsense. I think that feminism is better than the MRM, not that we’re some sort of equal opposites who should treat each other just the same.
ngz3120, please show me a popular online site/forum/whatever devoted to MR that is NOT riddled with misogyny. A link or two. (I can think of only one or two, and they are basically ignored by the majority of MRAs online) .
I “cherry-pick” only in that I search our misogyny that is actually interesting to write about — that’s funny, that deals with interesting issues, that sort of thing. Were I to post every misogynistic comment I find on MRA sites, I would have to post dozens if not hundeds of them a day.
There’s no need to “cherry pick” to find misogyny on, say, The Spearhead; it’s sort of hard to find posts or comments there that are NOT pretty explicitly misogynistic.
@Natasha: I’m not a dumbass, actually. Ad hominem attacks are a logical fallacy, and those are generally used by individuals unable to form a coherent argument.
You attributed to quotes to Holly. You used them out of order. The second quote was actually used first, and the first was said later to clarify her position. It’s clear that you posted them in that order in attempt to prove a point, and you failed utterly to do so.
Yes Sarahejones
Lolita was fictional, and there was a man in the control of a younger woman and a predator, the point being despite feminist stereotypes, older man does not automatically equal controlling predator, younger woman does not automatically equal helpless victim.
@Holly Pervocracy … “And you know, it’s possible to want to fuck someone, and yet not do it, if you understand that it would be unfair to them. If you love someone and you’re horny for them, but you know that they can’t give free and mature consent to sex, or that they are likely to feel hurt or cheapened by having sex with you, or that they believe the sex indicates a commitment you are not actually making, then you should love them enough to not fuck them.”
Fuck, fuck, fuck, such a vulgar term, why not intimacy or love making. Be that as it may. Can a 16 year old girl give consent to a 16 year old boy? Why do you treat a 16 year old girl like a pre-adolescent when it come to dealing with a man, but any other time she’s a strong independent women with a mind of her own? Why is the starting point always women need protection from men and their evil desires? Why, if a 16 year old girl who desires a 25 or 30 year old man misguided? Now she’s a child again in need of protection from her self.
Humbert Humbert is a predator. That’s what I actually said. In the book, he is portrayed as a predator. Reading comprehension is fun!
So, to recap, noogz, it seems your examples of it being always cool and never manipulative for middle-aged men to date underage girls are:
1. A work of fiction.
2. A guy who claims that his underage girlfriend is the one who’s “in charge” in the relationship. (Gee, that must be totally unbiased, objective fact, since he said it and all.)
3. Your girlfriend’s sexual fantasy.
Got anything else?
NWO – A 16-year-old boy is just as naive as a 16-year-old girl. They may be neither of them entirely right about how love works, but there’s no element of exploitation; they make their mistakes together and with (hopefully) honest intentions.
They may both be dumb, but at least neither one of them knows something the other doesn’t.
Also, no, I don’t think a 16-year-old girl is a full adult woman, and never said so.
“ngz3120, please show me a popular online site/forum/whatever devoted to MR that is NOT riddled with misogyny. A link or two. (I can think of only one or two, and they are basically ignored by the majority of MRAs online) .”
No because I know that you know that they are there and you are just trotting out the same old response that you make when any one calls you out on the nature of your profession. You show me a popular feminist site that is not riddled with misandry. Oh I forgot, it not the same thing, because the genders are reversed, how silly of me.
ngz – Okay, how about Feministing, Feministe, Jezebel, Ms. Magazine, Geek Feminism, Finally Feminism 101, or (ahem) The Pervocracy?
Your move.
@NWO:
I know you have a history of blissfully steam-rolling over nuance, but here goes. Two 16 year olds having sex is not the same thing as a 16 year old and a 30 year old. It doesn’t matter what the genders are, the two are absolutely different. There is no inherent age-related power dynamic in a relationship where the participants are very close in age. Stop equivocating the two.
“A 16-year-old boy is just as naive as a 16-year-old girl.”
On average, a 16 year old girl is a two or three years ahead of the 16 year old boy, or so I have been told.
“On average, a 16 year old girl is a two or three years ahead of the 16 year old boy, or so I have been told.”
We’re clear on the fact that what you’ve been told is hardly proof of anything, correct?
I don’t know who told you that, but… great, then she can have sex with an 18 or 19 year old boy!
Not fuckin’ 30.
@dan…How you could possibly misconstrue my analysis of life expectancy false data with the rant you’ve posted is beyond me.
If say yellowstone park erupted and wiped out 25% of the US population the “official” life expectancy numbers in any google search would reflect that event. So if whatever the number is say 70 year life expectancy the numbers reflected for years to come would be 25% lower. This is how false numbers are reported.
If you went to Europe during the plague years the life expectancy is very low, because those deaths are rounded into the numbers. Yet in Japan which didn’t exerience the plague they “lived longer” according to the “official” numbers.
“Two 16 year olds having sex is not the same thing as a 16 year old and a 30 year old.”
What if the 16 year old with the 30 year old is very mature for their age, and the 30 year is old caring, paternal and the 16 year old cherished fond memories of the experiences or the 16 year old is manipulating the 30 year old and they come away damaged?
“You show me a popular feminist site that is not riddled with misandry.”
Am I missing something? I can’t think of ONE that is.
Possibly … IBTP? Is that “popular”?
Fuck, fuck, fuck, such a vulgar term, why not intimacy or love making.
Oh noes! Are the bad words hurting you? I mean, I’ve done all three of those things and consider them different. Sometimes I just want to fuck, sometimes I want love making, and sometimes just intimacy. Why is that a problem?
NWOfootslave, does the phrase “peer group” mean anything to you?
No, don’t tell me, let me guess. It’s all part of the vast feminist conspiracy, right?
ngz3120:
If I had wheels I’d be a wagon. (In other words, making up hypotheticals is not a way of proving a point about all relatinships. Just because you can find some relationships where the 16-year-old did not feel manipulated doesn’t say anything about such relationships in general, unless you want to show that most or all 16 year olds are mature for their age.)
Also, can you name even one example of a 16-year-old manipulating and damaging a 30 year old?
EVERY SINGLE ONE in my “antidotes to boobery” sidebar.