Today, a trip down memory lane to revisit an until-recently lost classic of modern misogyny: Jay Hammers’ “The Age of Consent is Misandry.” The piece, originally published on Jay Hammers’Men’s Rights blog, inspired some heated discussions amongst MRAs online, with some harshly criticizing the piece as an apologia for pedophilia and others hailing it as a “politically incorrect” masterpiece. Stung by the criticism, Hammers ultimately took his blog down. But the piece has since been resurrected on the Human-Stupidity blog – another blog that seems rather unhealthily obsessed with the supposed injustice of men not being allowed to fuck underage girls.
Here are some of its highlights (that is, lowlights); the headlines are mine.
ALL ABOUT THE MENZ
The arbitrary age of consent is not about protecting women/girls. It is about valuing females and their virtue over males and their freedom. The intent of the laws is to stop older men from having sex with younger women and that is how it is enforced. It was never intended to stop younger men from having sex with older women.
MORE BETA BLUES
Age of consent laws are designed to punish beta males. A beta male in his 20s, unsuccessful with women his own age who are infused with a sense of feminist entitlement and deride all but the top alpha males who take interest in them, who seeks companionship with a younger, sexually mature female who desires him, should not go to prison for acting on that which is normal male sexuality.
FEMINISTS WHO SUPPORT AGE OF CONSENT LAWS ARE TREATING WOMEN LIKE CHILDREN
If we are to treat women as children then we should be consistent. Young women who have sex with older men are as much victims as women who have sex with a pick-up artist after meeting at a club. In both cases, feminists are angry because the woman has been “fooled” into having sex with a less than ideal mate in terms of value. …
This is what makes feminists angry and this is why age of consent exists still today, because it is assumed women are not mentally mature enough to give consent AND because older women want to limit men’s options to increase their own value in the sexual marketplace.
BUT WOMEN ARE CHILDREN, BASICALLY
Older women … are generally not of a much higher intelligence level than teenage girls. The big difference between the two is that older women are less attractive and that is what makes them so damn angry. …
Females generally do not significantly mature mentally past puberty so it should always be illegal for any woman to have sex or it should never be illegal for any woman to have sex. There is no arbitrary age where females suddenly become self-aware, realizing the consequences of their actions, and stop seeking out alpha males. Thus there must not be an arbitrary age of consent for sex.
A MODEST PROPOSAL
If anything, it should be illegal for women to have sex with men until men have been educated on the truths of women, Marriage 2.0, Game, feminism, and men’s rights.
Discuss?
Holly, the reason a grown up with grown up expectations would want to fuck a 16 year old is this…
Because the 16 year old is NOT a grown up with grown up expectations, and will be blown over by the fact that a mature person is a) interested in them (“When they could be with someone their own age! They know that I’m super mature!”) b) has a car and/or doesn’t live with their parents c) can provide things that a peer lover can’t (“OMG, beer!”). The immature partner does not have the experience or expectations to ask questions, to make demands, or to look at the larger picture and think “wait, there’s something wrong here.” The immature partner cannot be an equal partner either intellectually or socially. Thats why the older party wants them. Partners in their own peer group are too challenging, expect too much, and they know they can’t meet those expectations.
NWO – It’s more like I presume to know what a 16-year-old is capable of. If a 30-year-old man really loves a girl, the kind of love that’s about “I want the best for you” rather than “I want to have you”, then he keeps his goddamn dick out of her.
“I love you so much that I have to fuck you,” is teenager logic, and thus is only honest when expressed between two teenagers.
hellkell….”Holly, I think the MRAs would like to fuck a teenager, because a teenager wouldn’t be able to point out their shortcomings in the bedroom. These guys have such stunted ideas about sex/sexuality/women, they’re almost bonsai trees. I can’t imagine they’d be any good in bed.”
@Holly Pervocracy…”Hellkell – I can’t imagine they know what “good in bed” even means. When sex is so wrapped up in status and power, the actual content of the sex itself is secondary. Who you stick it in is such an object of neurosis to these guys, that I assume they haven’t given ten seconds thought to how you stick it in.”
Hatred in, Hatred out.
“Lawyers do nothing but create problems. Engineering exists to fix problems.”
Your farther was right.
On topic: The age of consent is 14 in Germany and ,as far as I know, it works pretty well. The vast majority of adult men are simply not interested in dating 14 year old girls. (Personally I’m quite happy if I don’t have to deal with annoying teenagers at all.) Also teenage pregnancies are pretty rare here compared to the US, as well as new cases of STIs among teenagers and young adults. So I don’t think lowering the age of consent ,even as low as 14, necessarily results in abuse and unwanted pregnancies.
I don’t hate men, NWO. I hate MRAs.
World of difference, believe me.
NWO:
So, hatred is coming out of hellkell and holly because… MRAs are putting hate in? Or because you are putting hate in?
NWO, are you going to answer my question? When do you ask the 14 year old love of your life’s parents for permission to date and have sex with their daughter? Since the age of consent laws are arbitrary and their love is pure.
As for your beliefs about MAMMOGRAMS (Mammographies? Really?) let me just say this: One of my best friends is a Radiation Oncologist. I know, I know; even typing that seems crazy and like it can’t be true. Still, it is true. She’s one of my best friends, I’ve known her since she began Medical School and through her residency. In fact, I spent I did consulting work with her department.
NWO, you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. Mammograms do not create breast cancer. The idea that if every woman avoids mammograms then no women will get breast cancer is so unbelievably stupid…
NWO, did women get breast cancer before mammogram technology was available?
To be specific, I don’t even necessarily hate people who are in favor of men’s rights.
I hate people who are in favor of men’s rights to fuck high-schoolers.
Also, I’ve figured out NWO’s trick. He ignores questions he doesn’t have a nice easy answer to for as long as he can, while spitting out rhetorical or really dumb questions of his own. Finally, when people get fed up with him, he can point to all the questions he ignored and say “look how many questions you guys expect me to answer!” and then points to the really pointless ones he asks and says “look at how nobody seems to answer me!” It’s kinda clever, it its own twisted fashion.
See Holly, NWO is a middle-aged man who wants to have sex with 14 year olds. So he knows more about the subject than any of us possibly could.
Now I, on the other hand, was just a 14 year old girl once who was constantly getting propositioned by older men? Obviously, my own experiences count for nothing.
“The best preventative advice you can get is…….don’t get tested.”
Science (you know, the stuff that’s based in fact, data, and research–as opposed to your bizarre interpretation of it) suggests that the risk of developing cancer as a result of regularly getting a mammogram is extremely, extremely tiny in comparison to the benefits of mammography. That is, so long as one starts getting mammograms at an appropriate age. Unless a person is predisposed to being highly at risk of developing breast cancer, it’s generally recommended that people don’t start getting mammograms until a little later in life, when the radiation risk posed by the procedure is significantly outweighed by the positive impact that breast cancer screening can have.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9709287
http://www.annals.org/content/146/7/516.full
Don’t you just love empirical data?
NWOSlave – I am a good engineer. I have solved real problems and been praised on the merits of my work. I am not the best at everything, and I’ve fucked up on occasion too and been called on it, and nobody said “well it’s OK that you designed that tube wrong – you’re a girl” or even “of course you designed that tube wrong – you’re a girl”. I can be honest with myself and say I wasn’t very good as a design engineer, which is the first thing I went into out of school. I figured that out and became a test engineer instead and that is something my brain is WAY better suited to. And none of the companies I’ve worked for even HAVE quotes. So I know I didn’t get my job due to quotas.
Can I definitively say no boss of mine ever in the back of his mind said “if I hire her it will look good to our diversity team so I will”? Of course not. The same way I can’t definitively say that none of the people who chose not to hire me never thought “Girls can never be good at engineering so of course I won’t hire her”. I don’t know of a case where either of those things happened to me but it’s entirely possible they both have.
The point of affirmative action is to make it so that the former counteracts the latter and everyone gets a fair chance. Does it always balance out perfectly? No, of course not. But over time as attitudes change it gets better. But I know that’s way too subtle for you to understand because you’re such a black and white kinda guy.
Since MRA’s hate feminists, that would have to be the hate in part.
Nobinayamu – I was a 15-year-old girl who had sex with a guy in his 20s, and I regret it. At the time I saw him as a guy who had a car and could stay out as late as he wanted and could buy booze and porn; I didn’t see him as what he was–a person so lacking in boundaries, empathy, and responsibility that no woman in her 20s would come near him.
(Note, on a completely different topic, that even though I regretted the sex, I not only forgot to accuse him of rape, I actually refused to cooperate in prosecuting him for the statutory rape that he had actually committed. I kept a man out of jail even though I regretted the sex! WACKYPANTS!)
Oh but I do know that the last time my current boss interviewed candidates for a position in his group he interviewed two men and one woman. One of the men was the most qualified candidate and he offered the job to that man. We did it as a team interview and I was on the interview team and the boss took input from everyone on the team but ultimately it was his decision. If he had hired the less qualified woman I suppose I might wonder how I got my own job. But he didn’t.
Holly, I was a 14 and 15 year old girl who was constantly being propositioned by men in their mid to late twenties and thirties. And I also thought it would be cool to hang out with someone who had their own car, and a real job, their own apartment. Because I was a friggin’ teenager and an idiot.
Strangely enough, not one of those guys had the courage to pick me up at my house and stand, flat-footed in front of my father. Nearly every single one of them was only interested in having sex with me. We didn’t really have anything in common and, despite the perception of freedom, even as an idiot teenager I recognized that they were kind of losers. In fact it was at 16 that I realized just how dangerous it could be to be alone in a man’s house if he’d driven you there, and you decided that you wanted to leave, and he decided that he didn’t want you to leave. I was never so appreciative to have grown up in a city with good mass transit.
That was an important lesson. I went back to boys my own age for a long time.
Pure love, indeed.
Ozy’s comment has captured my imagination:
“David: I have had sex with six men. About six hundred people have seen me naked (two hundred of them in person).”
All at once? I feel like you must have had sex in a stadium. JUMBOTRON! 😀
I feel like I understand Kirby better now that I’ve read that the idea of arguing with a creationist makes him *gleeful*. I’d start pulling out my hair.
@Molly Ren:
Its more of a selfish thing than anything else. I know that there’s a very high chance that NWO wouldn’t learn a damn thing no matter how much evidence I provide for my case, and how little evidence or how much bad evidence he provides. But me being able to provide that evidence, and practicing in finding bad arguments or bad data, is something I would enjoy. As soon as it turns into me trying to convince NWO of anything, I would start to have much less fun. 😛
Kirbywarp – This page is more or less the Ultimate Smackdown of all creationist arguments:
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html
@Holly:
Heh, yeah, I’ve seen that before. Another part of it is that I’m actually interested in these sorts of things, including interest in the debate itself. *shrug* Well, it looks like NWO’s flounced away anyway, looks like I’ll have to find some other way to occupy my time.
True story: I was interviewing for a job as a QA tester, something I had done for a couple of years before moving 3000 miles. My former boss pretty much sputtered at me: “But you have EXPERIENCE!” And then while trying to compose himself added: “And you’re a girl!” And then went back to “And you have EXPERIENCE!” Most of my co-workers were male, down in the QA den there were about 20 of us, two female, most of my male co-workers had had no experience when they were hired. So there’s my affirmative action – having the boss be extra happy that he could hire someone with experience who also made it vaguely look like it wasn’t a sexist organization.
I’ve been on hiring committees also, as the token female, because when we needed a new GIS person, and our white male dudes who did the IT/GIS stuff realized they needed to diversify at least a little bit, they asked me to do it. And you know what? We all agreed to hire the white dude who seemed best qualified. There was a woman who came in and had a decently similar looking resume, but she was crap on the written test, plus gave us all a bad vibe.
Mr. Slave, maybe you should just watch Fast Times at Ridgemont High. Pure love indeed, I believe the ultra-Christian saying is “True Love Waits.”
No, Xtra, MRA’s hate feminISM….huge difference
I am so amused at this NWO creature
seriously have to keep coming back to the site to check on him
its like a daily game of numpty bingo!
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_kYu2r3RVPhY/S1zdh7u9e8I/AAAAAAAABSU/0Yq04H4svkc/s1600-h/fractal-wrong.jpg
There is an openly gay man running for president in Ireland and some of his views on classical pederasty have been brought up – he once said that he felt that the Greek situation had merit, and it was used against him recently, which I thought was a low blow.
I fully support using Germain Greer’s and Eva Ensler’s pro-statuary rape positions against them and feminism in general, but only to demonstrate the sexual hypocrisy.
I wager that the politically correct peanut gallery here hold people to different standards depending on their genetic code, sexuality and political affiliations. The correctness of an action depending on the gender and sexuality of the actor and the one supposedly acted upon.
Women it seems are threatened by younger women, often a man who is noticeably older than his adult female partner is labelled “pathetic” and a “pervert” and the younger woman will also be sexually shamed and given various labels… I think that there is merit in the mens movement theory that aspects of feminism are about older women looking after their own reproductive interests.
Bit rambely, but long story short – feminists and the PC are largely assholes that can’t see that they are, because of their programming. It doesn’t necessarily mean that they are bad people, they often don’t know any better, they have been told that their bigotry is good bigotry and they just go with that, free pass to be an asshole.
NWO – you aren’t really doing your cause any favours mixing popular conspiracy theories with your anti feminism or men’s rights or whatever you identify as.
NWO probably had to go work at his 28-hour-a-day job that nonetheless leaves him copious free time for leaving hundreds of Internet comments during all evenings and weekends in the Central time zone.