Today, a trip down memory lane to revisit an until-recently lost classic of modern misogyny: Jay Hammers’ “The Age of Consent is Misandry.” The piece, originally published on Jay Hammers’Men’s Rights blog, inspired some heated discussions amongst MRAs online, with some harshly criticizing the piece as an apologia for pedophilia and others hailing it as a “politically incorrect” masterpiece. Stung by the criticism, Hammers ultimately took his blog down. But the piece has since been resurrected on the Human-Stupidity blog – another blog that seems rather unhealthily obsessed with the supposed injustice of men not being allowed to fuck underage girls.
Here are some of its highlights (that is, lowlights); the headlines are mine.
ALL ABOUT THE MENZ
The arbitrary age of consent is not about protecting women/girls. It is about valuing females and their virtue over males and their freedom. The intent of the laws is to stop older men from having sex with younger women and that is how it is enforced. It was never intended to stop younger men from having sex with older women.
MORE BETA BLUES
Age of consent laws are designed to punish beta males. A beta male in his 20s, unsuccessful with women his own age who are infused with a sense of feminist entitlement and deride all but the top alpha males who take interest in them, who seeks companionship with a younger, sexually mature female who desires him, should not go to prison for acting on that which is normal male sexuality.
FEMINISTS WHO SUPPORT AGE OF CONSENT LAWS ARE TREATING WOMEN LIKE CHILDREN
If we are to treat women as children then we should be consistent. Young women who have sex with older men are as much victims as women who have sex with a pick-up artist after meeting at a club. In both cases, feminists are angry because the woman has been “fooled” into having sex with a less than ideal mate in terms of value. …
This is what makes feminists angry and this is why age of consent exists still today, because it is assumed women are not mentally mature enough to give consent AND because older women want to limit men’s options to increase their own value in the sexual marketplace.
BUT WOMEN ARE CHILDREN, BASICALLY
Older women … are generally not of a much higher intelligence level than teenage girls. The big difference between the two is that older women are less attractive and that is what makes them so damn angry. …
Females generally do not significantly mature mentally past puberty so it should always be illegal for any woman to have sex or it should never be illegal for any woman to have sex. There is no arbitrary age where females suddenly become self-aware, realizing the consequences of their actions, and stop seeking out alpha males. Thus there must not be an arbitrary age of consent for sex.
A MODEST PROPOSAL
If anything, it should be illegal for women to have sex with men until men have been educated on the truths of women, Marriage 2.0, Game, feminism, and men’s rights.
Discuss?
NWO, first of all it’s mammogram. Mammogram.
And no doctor recommends that any woman receive mammograms on a monthly basis.
Nobinayamu…Would that racist shit consist of talking about white male privilege?
I’m not getting into this “life expectancy” irrelevancy, but:
A) If a 14-year-old girl is just as mature as a 20-year-old woman, why not fuck 20-year-olds? This “women don’t mature anyway” bullshit, besides being ridiculous on its face, seems to coexist as doublethink with “but it’s best to get the very youngest ones!”
B) This kind of bullshit is why the MRA can’t do anything for men’s rights. As long as “men have the right to fuck teenagers!” is treated as a legitimate cause alongside “men have the right to fair prison sentences!”, by the same people and without internal criticism–it’s really, really hard to get anyone to take you seriously about the prison sentences or think that you’re serious political advocates.
Why no Nobinayamu? Is it because it’s radiation. Big Daddy wants to help, right? Poor black women get em for free. Is the early detection really the cause?
Holly Pervocracy…So if a man loves a woman who happens to be 16 and he is 30, you say his love is wrong?
Why must a man love who you dictate and at what age?
Oh, back to abortion.
Let’s try this, NWO.
Let’s say you fall in pure, pure love with a 14 year old girl -and you aren’t living in South Carolina, Idaho, or Utah- and she returns your feelings. You know, you were just hanging out by the Junior High School one afternoon, right around 3:30 pm. She came out of the building laughing and joking with her friends about Glee and texting her boyfriend about meeting up at the mall. Your eyes lock. She abandons her friends, comes over to you, blinks innocently, and asks for a ride home. She’s enthralled and beguiled by your middle-aged charms.
You begin to pick her up after school regularly but, because she’s underaged your careful to drop her a block or so from home. Your intentions are noble, of course, but you wouldn’t want anyone getting the wrong idea. You stop by the Sonic every afternoon and discuss the Rothschilds and the world debt clock. She thinks you’re the most fascinating man she’s ever met. Your love is pure. There’s some hand-holding. A few innocent pecks. It progresses to heavy petting. You’re certain she’s the one and she wants nothing more than to be with you too.
When do you drop her off directly in front of her house, ring the doorbell, and as her parents for permission to date their daughter?
Nobinayamu – I’m an engineer too, so, yeah, that 🙂 I actually used to work on missiles and people would call me a “rocket scientist” and I would always correct them “No, I’m a rocket engineer!” which was mostly a joke (I wasn’t offended to be called a rocket scientist but it did make me wonder why that became such a common catchphrase when most of rocketry is engineering).
Hey, NWO, did I mention White privilege? No? Then it’s safe to say that, that’s not what I’m talking about.
Plymouth…AA paid good dividends for you, huh? Did you get the job on merit or quota?
You know what’s funny? Teenagers are terrible at sex.
I mean, if your main aim in sex is “conquest,” then I guess anyone who lets you technically stick it in them will do, but if you have any aspirations to sensuality… that’s a skill that comes from experience and maturity. As a teenager, I gave the toothiest blowjobs, the floppiest handjobs, the awkwardest and least active fucks of my life, I was too insecure and self-conscious to really lose myself in sex, my idea of talking dirty was “you’re SURE I’m not too fat? augh you think I’m fat” and I didn’t have a good idea of what my own kinks were or how a partner should please me.
As I’ve gotten more experienced–both in sex and simply in life–I’ve gotten better. At 25, I’m still baby-faced and certainly not some menopausal old lady, and I’m way, way better at sex.
Why would a grownup, with grownup expectations and standards, want to fuck a teenager?
Plymouth, my father seriously tried to discourage me from studying law (point of order: I am not a lawyer) by patiently explaining that it was ridiculous for the daughter of two engineers (and a bunch more in the family) to even consider becoming a lawyer. His reason? “Lawyers do nothing but create problems. Engineering exists to fix problems.”
True story.
NWO, aspirin can help alleviate the pain associated with headaches. So, if you have a bad headache you should take 3 times the recommended dose, right? If two will alleviate the pressure then ten should assure that you never have a headache again.
Is this your understanding of how medicine works?
Nobinayamu, Luckily you’ve done research on chemical composition and know exactly what you’re pouring into your body. Good for you.
If the sixteen year old has the money and ability to get to an abortion clinic. Due to abortion clinics having difficulty operating they are usually hard to get to. Then again if the 16 year old is dating a 30 year old man he’d probably be able to pay for it and drive her, unlike if she was seeing someone her own age that would have limited income and less probability of having a vehicle.
There are still plenty of women carrying unwanted pregnancies to term so you can relax.
Poor black woman here, I have never been offered the free holocaust mammogram. There must have been an oversight. A big one because all the other poor black women I know have never had a mammogram either. Or is NWO giving inside information from whitey headquarters?
Bull fuckin’ Shit on NWO’s “what if it’s pure love?” deal.
Because nothing at 16 is pure love. This is just my belief, but I don’t think that at 16 you’re capable of truly mature love–the kind of love where you understand your lover as a person with faults and strengths, not any kind of perfect ideal. Even if you later grow to love the same person in an adult way, your love at 16 is colored by immaturity and inexperience.
At 16, at least in US culture, love is painfully idealized. It takes time, and maybe getting burnt a couple times, to learn how to love someone not in a “bed covered in rose petals” way but in a “pick him up at the dentist and give him a Slushee” way.
And for a 30-year-old, who should know better, to take advantage of someone in the rose-petal stage of understanding love is just skeevy. It’s dishonest. At best it’s exploiting immature love because you just want a worshipper and can’t (or won’t) stand up to the demands of adult love, and more often it’s exploiting immature love for a cheap fuck.
No, I’m actually wiling to say it, a 16-year-old and a 30-year-old cannot have pure true love.
NWO, changing the subject doesn’t actually make you right. It’s a petty diversion tactic intended to distract from the fact that, once again, I have asked a question that you cannot or will not answer.
Medicine is not perfect. It isn’t always right. It has made mistakes and will continue to make mistakes. Medicine is based in science with the objective of healing. Most of the time. Medicine is not perfect.
That does not make it a farce.
How do you reconcile your deep concern for the well-being of children with your belief that medicine is a farce?
Nobinayamu: Nah, I get it. I may have been too flippant in bouncing off your comment, when the point I really wanted to make was more personal: I really, really find him disturbing.
But I think I get the point you’re making too. It is at least something different to hear such vile stuff coming from someone in a more or less unapologetic manner. No backpedaling. And when I say I “get” it, I mean I “get” it in as much as I can. That’s part of why the privilege discussion of the past few days has been really agonizing for me. I’m privileged in that I don’t have to think about that shit (by which I mean the shit that you’re talking about) all the time, y’know? Like the damali ayo thing … I never have to worry about being the example someone holds up as proof that they’re not racist, or have someone ask me to make a statement for this wide group of people that I’ve somehow become the representative for. And as a white person, I sincerely try not to take that for granted, but I know I’m not as sensitive to racial issues as I should be. And I need to get better at that.
Subby: I’ve had a lot of x-rays for various health issues in the past. Thanks for bringing it up!
Xtra, NWO assumes that all women and ethnic minorities get everything for free. See: countless of his posts on this board or his most recent assumption that Plymouth’s job is a result of Affirmative Action.
Obviously, being both Black and a woman means that you never have to work a day in your life. Mammograms, Prius’, and groceries are given out free daily. I’ll email you the “Black women get free shit,” number.
Alright, NWO seems to have gone into meltdown. He’s no longer arguing any points, he’s just taking comments at random and attacking them. Also… NWO IS A YOUNG EARTH CREATIONIST?!?!??
😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀
This… Is… AWESOME! NWO, please please PLEASE debate science, evolution, and the age of the earth with me or anyone else who is knowledgable! On the open thread though, just for the sake of politeness.
OT: Age of consent laws are tricky for me. I’d agree with a hard deadline at 16, even though that still seems too young to me. It seems like a good compromise between allowing a child to grow up mentally and not prosecuting kids who have sex before they are 18. If two kids are both around the same age, I think there is much more wiggle room since, like someone else said, there is much less chance of an unhealthy power dynamic going on. But sex isn’t the most important thing in the world, and if you have to wait a few years to let the love of your life reach the age where she/he can make decisions, why not wait? Children honestly don’t have much in the way of perspective, and you need a lot of that to deal with the wonderful yet tricky world that is sex.
Holly, I think the MRAs would like to fuck a teenager, because a teenager wouldn’t be able to point out their shortcomings in the bedroom. These guys have such stunted ideas about sex/sexuality/women, they’re almost bonsai trees. I can’t imagine they’d be any good in bed.
Hellkell – I can’t imagine they know what “good in bed” even means. When sex is so wrapped up in status and power, the actual content of the sex itself is secondary. Who you stick it in is such an object of neurosis to these guys, that I assume they haven’t given ten seconds thought to how you stick it in.
Holly Pervocracy, Than you presume to dictate what a man is emotionally capable of. A 30 year old man should “know better” than what? To love someone?
Nobinayamu, My advice to you is do a little research. Mammographies use ionized radiation. Ionized radiation collects in fatty tissue, (weird huh, exactly where they aim). This radiation is cumulative and never goes away. Further each shot of ionized radiation will naturally attach to the already present spots of irradiated tissue. The more mammographies you get the more likely you are to get cancer.
The best preventative advice you can get is…….don’t get tested.
But really, I think it’s less about “teenagers don’t see your shortcomings in the bedroom” and more about “teenagers don’t see your shortcomings as a person.” If you treat a grown woman like a sex object or servant, she’s liable to wise up; an insecure and inexperienced teenager is much easier to manipulate into thinking that this is okay and that she’s lucky to be your sex object.
Bee, no worries at all. I didn’t think you were being flippant; I thought I was.
See, I’m deeply aware of my own kind of privilege. And I do worry that the very things about my background and achievements that allow me to both debate and laugh at bigotry also prevent me from being sensitive to others’ abject disgust.
Sometimes I worry when I use humor or don’t take others feelings into consideration. I wanted to be sure that I wasn’t repeating that mistake.
NWOslave:
You are being thick. A 30 year old man can’t always help who he loves, but he can help what he does with that love. Holly is saying that a 30 year old man should know that a 16 year old girl isn’t mature enough to really understand what love and sex means, and therefore should be perfectly willing to wait a couple years before trying to have sex with her.