Today, a trip down memory lane to revisit an until-recently lost classic of modern misogyny: Jay Hammers’ “The Age of Consent is Misandry.” The piece, originally published on Jay Hammers’Men’s Rights blog, inspired some heated discussions amongst MRAs online, with some harshly criticizing the piece as an apologia for pedophilia and others hailing it as a “politically incorrect” masterpiece. Stung by the criticism, Hammers ultimately took his blog down. But the piece has since been resurrected on the Human-Stupidity blog – another blog that seems rather unhealthily obsessed with the supposed injustice of men not being allowed to fuck underage girls.
Here are some of its highlights (that is, lowlights); the headlines are mine.
ALL ABOUT THE MENZ
The arbitrary age of consent is not about protecting women/girls. It is about valuing females and their virtue over males and their freedom. The intent of the laws is to stop older men from having sex with younger women and that is how it is enforced. It was never intended to stop younger men from having sex with older women.
MORE BETA BLUES
Age of consent laws are designed to punish beta males. A beta male in his 20s, unsuccessful with women his own age who are infused with a sense of feminist entitlement and deride all but the top alpha males who take interest in them, who seeks companionship with a younger, sexually mature female who desires him, should not go to prison for acting on that which is normal male sexuality.
FEMINISTS WHO SUPPORT AGE OF CONSENT LAWS ARE TREATING WOMEN LIKE CHILDREN
If we are to treat women as children then we should be consistent. Young women who have sex with older men are as much victims as women who have sex with a pick-up artist after meeting at a club. In both cases, feminists are angry because the woman has been “fooled” into having sex with a less than ideal mate in terms of value. …
This is what makes feminists angry and this is why age of consent exists still today, because it is assumed women are not mentally mature enough to give consent AND because older women want to limit men’s options to increase their own value in the sexual marketplace.
BUT WOMEN ARE CHILDREN, BASICALLY
Older women … are generally not of a much higher intelligence level than teenage girls. The big difference between the two is that older women are less attractive and that is what makes them so damn angry. …
Females generally do not significantly mature mentally past puberty so it should always be illegal for any woman to have sex or it should never be illegal for any woman to have sex. There is no arbitrary age where females suddenly become self-aware, realizing the consequences of their actions, and stop seeking out alpha males. Thus there must not be an arbitrary age of consent for sex.
A MODEST PROPOSAL
If anything, it should be illegal for women to have sex with men until men have been educated on the truths of women, Marriage 2.0, Game, feminism, and men’s rights.
Discuss?
@Bee and I know you’re not fishing for sympathy, and you weren’t fishing for sympathy before either, but I just wanted to say I’m so sry for not noticing you sharing your trauma : *big hugs*
@Bee:
Urk.. I really didn’t notice that. I myself don’t always feel comfortable commenting on this stuff, because I myself haven’t really gone through anything bad in my life. This is me shooting in the dark, but I think MRAL presented himself as someone “in the middle of it” rather than “in the aftermath,” hence the different responses… I dunno. Like I said, I don’t feel comfortable commenting on other people’s hardships, especially if it involves rape. I hope this lets you know that I do care, I just don’t know how to express it sometimes…
Ami – If it helps, I’ve only seen pictures of course, but I’ve been struck by how not just okay but gorgeous you are.
I don’t know if it falls on deaf ears in MRAL’s case, but I read it, and your story makes me glad that you’re in a better place now and glad that you can share it in the weird little world this blog has created.
MRAL: Whew… I know that’s a load to be carrying. It will get better, but there are going to be some tough times ahead. Please read the link I posted on Hillel.
Thanks, Ami and Kirbywarp, and I’m sorry — now I feel silly. I definitely don’t want to derail. It just struck me that lots and lots of people have shared painful experiences, either surrounding Mr. Al’s condition or in response to something written by an MRA, and sometimes they’re acknowledged and sometimes they’re not … and I can’t even think of anyone specifically (except myself), but, I mean, I don’t know. It just seems like Mr. Al ALWAYS gets lots of sympathy and acknowledgment. If he’s looking for sympathy and recognition, he’s got it. In spades! It’s honestly draining.
I don’t think that pointing out to him that he’s gotten so much sympathy for his problems, even in relation to other people on this blog, will honestly make any kind of difference, but … I don’t know. I try.
Bee – I think the difference–and I’m sorry if I’m wrong about this–is that you don’t strike us as someone needing help right now. It doesn’t excuse ignoring you and I’m sorry if I did that (I honestly don’t remember you posting about being raped, but I do not read every thread), but you project that you’re okay right now, or at least aware of yourself and what problems you have. It doesn’t make you less deserving (you’re more, for not being a jerk), but it makes you feel less urgent.
Also you don’t post about your problems constantly on every thread all the time. There’s that.
Maybe once a month you should have an open MRAL height/eye thread and go nuts.
And, I’m sorry, I’m obviously not explaining this properly, but … it’s less about every single person on this site needing recognition for their sob stories, and more about trying to convey to Mr. Al that if he needs to feel special and the Best and all that, then he’s won. He’s got All the Recognition. He’s got the Very Most Sympathy. Instead of feeling absolutely insecure and needy, I hope he can feel as though some of his needs are met through honest to god humans giving a shit about his problems, and him getting much more attention than anyone else (even people who are actually experiencing some kind of real-time crisis, if I’m remembering correctly).
On the other hand, I think part of his problem is that he’s a narcissist, so I don’t think that idea will sink into his head. But again, I try.
Bee – I work in an ER that has a psych unit. This is an exchange that I’ve been through many, many times with psychiatric patients:
“Nurse! I want some water.”
“Okay, I’ll get you some…”
“I’m dying of thirst and nobody cares and if only I could get the tiniest amount of help, if only I could get just some water, it would mean that somebody, anybody was listening to me, but nooo…”
“Here’s a cup of water.”
“Bleh! This water is terrible! Is it from the tap?” *dumps it out*
It’s not as simple as “they’re jerks.” (Although that can also be the case; jerkitude exists on a separate axis from mental health, and someone can be mentally ill and also coincidentally a jerk.) It’s more a matter that they were craving attention because they thought it would soothe the pain they’re feeling, and when they get attention but find they’re still in pain, they aren’t grateful. Because attention never was the cure to their problem. They got what they wanted, but not what they needed, and as a result they’re just as miserable as before.
What MRAL needs is help from someone who’s actually trained and who he can trust, not a blog alternately calling him an asshole and doing armchair pop-psych on him. Our attention decidedly falls into the “wanted, not needed” category, and so I’m not surprised he isn’t grateful.
Hey, just to get things back to (kinda) on topic, I decided I am maybe possible OK with the “age/2+7” thing because even though 56 sounds like really massively older than me I realized Keith Olbermann is 52 and I WANT TO DO HIM SO GODDAMNED BAD!! (Countdown with Keith Olberman premiers Monday at 8pm EST on Current TV. I am so so so so excited!)
So they got what they wanted, not what they needed?
Incidentally, how do I imbed videos?
Awww you ppl are so awesome <3
@Bee @Sarah @Kirby ty :3
@Holly I hope it gets thru to him even a little : And awww thank you so much… I wish I felt gorgeous or could see it… but ty *BIG HUGS* :]
You guys are so awesome <3
I’m so glad for you MRAL. As trying as you can be from day one of you coming on this blog I’ve seen this glimmer of goodness in you that I have no doubt will come out with some help. Although it’s not the same thing at all my brother got involved with the mra due to his schizophrenia and it’s made his condition worse ten fold because people feed his delusions. (you may have gotten angry at women for not giving you the feedback you wanted but you’ve never tried to kill your children).
Because of this I have a slight big brother feeling towards you, I really want you to get healthy. In fact if you could get healthy it would help me a lot in my hope that one day my brother could be as well. I wish you all the best.
Ok, I linked the wrong song. This is the one I was thinking of.
And neither of them actually have the quote about getting what you want versus what you need, like I thought? OH WELL GO WATCH DISNEY SONGS ANYWAY!
Holly, yeah, that definitely rings a bell. I’ve also seen that behavior from people who at least don’t identify as needing psychiatric help. It seems fairly common — but that could just be the situations I choose to put myself in.
@Sarah:
If you paste the youtube link as plain text, it will embed the video. Just FWI 🙂
On the subject of MRAL and sympathy: yeah, I think there should be a reasonable limit. My empathy for his dissatisfaction with his body isn’t going to erode my impatience with his faulty reasoning regarding teh evil fymynysts. And if he ends up refusing help, or chooses to deny that he has an illness, then my sympathy’s at an end. I just don’t want to push someone over the edge.
I just want to point out to NWO, etc. that this set of interactions with MRAL, puts a bit of kibosh on the, All Feminists Hate Men.
We apparently don’t even Hate All MRAs.
oh! Thanks Kirby, that’s really easy!
Ok, night everyone. I’m really tired.
Goodness people…next to impossible to keep up with the responses and I so totally wanted complain about how people assume I am taller then I am because of my bombastic personality. (Plus use the word bombastic.)
Anyway,
Still funny even after all of these years.
BOMBASTIC!!!
“it’s ugly and disgusting and I can NEVER NEVER NEVER Skype or do video chat because it looks so bad I can’t concentrate and I want to throw up looking at it and my school IDs and photos and drive’s license and random candid pictures make me want to vomit it’s uglier thn anything I’ve ever seen and I want to kill myself when I see that. I can NEVER let people take candid pictures of me because I want to literally barf and then destroy that picture because it looks fucking awful.It’s so fucking weird thought because it doesn’t look quite as bad in the mirror for some reason, so I beat myself up not knowing what it looks like at any given moment, all day, all the time.”
Oh MRAL your comment made me so sad, even tho you have been a dick to everyone and insulted us. I could have written this about myself, obviously with appropriate changes.
I have BDD and it fucking sucks, I especially identify with the fear of video chat and photos, staring in the mirror and thinking you don’t look so bad, but seeing a picture and it just ruins everything again. I know what it’s like feeling sick with yourself and therefore self-destructive (I’m a self-injurer). I know exactly what the anger at people you percieve as better looking or whatever feels like. It’s tempting to hate people you envy.
It’s not ok to react that way, tho, and it’s certainly not REAL. I might hate the way I look, but that hate isn’t real, it just comes from inside me, the same way you hate yourself. I have obsessed about getting a nose job for most of my life, never been in a financial position and since I’ve been having therapy I have realised my nose being changed wouldn’t change how I felt about myself. There will always be another flaw to find in yourself, another reason people overlook you, another reason guys/girls don’t think you’re hot (even if they do).
You’ve been duped into believing some awful shit but it’s easy to come out of. I can’t call ‘troll’ on you because this would be a fucking realistic performance of BDD. Please remember it is NOT REAL, NO ONE IS LOOKING AT YOU.
Ami, only just scrolled back and read your comment. Thank you for being so cool and unpacking things for me, either that I don’t understand or can’t express. Your comments are always so beautiful and wise, even full of smilies! :’)
*Sigh*
I’ve already explained at length what “male privilege” is, and of course, it fell on death ears. So I’ll try a slightly different approach.
Ion, the fact that you have a right to vote doesn’t make you privileged. However, the fact that I have a right to vote means that I am privileged.
The fact that you, as a man, are considered a whole person regardless of your relationship status doesn’t make you privileged. However, I, as a woman, am clearly being privileged if I am treated with respect and consideration without regard to whether or not I am married, what my significant other does for a living, or what I’ve done in my bedroom behind closed doors.
You, as a man, are not privileged in that your right not to be violently assaulted and penetrated against your will does not hinge on the cut of your pants, the degree of attractiveness that you exude, your habits with respect to drinking, swearing, or laughing at bawdy humor, or the number of sexual partners you have had. However, the fact that it is illegal to fuck me with a baseball bat and then murder me even if I am wearing a short skirt and even though I lost my virginity outside of wedlock means that I am clearly privileged and not being held properly accountable for my actions.
The fact that you can walk out on your family for the price of leasing a Toyota Camry, sleep with scores of women and burn though both your and your wife’s savings for the sake of getting you toys you’ve wanted all your life without much social condemnation doesn’t make you privileged. However, the fact that a married woman with children can have a career without everyone shaming her as a cold, selfish bitch (how dare she provide for her family!) means that she is privileged.
The fact that you, as a man, can talk loudly and express opinions strongly without people questioning your attractiveness or your sex life, or calling you “shrill” or loudly wishing you went back to preparing hors d’oeuvres already doesn’t make you privileged. The fact that it is now considered neanderthal to call me shrill and tell me to shut up and go back to the kitchen means that I am privileged.
That fact that your screw-ups in the workplace are not held against your gender doesn’t make you privileged; the fact that a male co-worker’s screw-ups aren’t held against you doesn’t mean that you are privileged. However, if I, as a professional, am considered competent despite the fact that my company’s female receptionist is dumber than a box of hair, that means I am privileged.
The fact that you are considered a good father merely for living under the same roof with the mother, and doing nothing else, doesn’t make you privileged. The fact that I am considered an equally good parent despite not changing EVERY SINGLE diaper, preparing every single meal and cleaning up every single mess, without exception, means that I am privileged.
The fact that it is understood that you are a human being with flaws and imperfections and therefore deserve happiness, civil rights and a chance at political participation doesn’t mean you are privileged. The fact that I am “permitted” to pursue happiness, enjoy civil rights and have a chance at political participation despite not meeting some utterly ridiculous standard of perfection in the areas of morality, intelligence, professional and trade skills, as well as attractiveness, means that I am unfairly privileged.
The fact that you enjoy certain rights and benefits without anyone saying that you are “permitted” to enjoy them doesn’t mean you are privileged. The fact that I am “permitted” to enjoy certain rights and benefits (vote, get an education, have a job, wear a bikini) means that I am privileged.
Basically, it’s like this: if civil rights and social and political freedoms are seen as birthrights, then obviously, people who enjoy them don’t perceive them as privileges. By contrast, if a person is believed to be without such birthrights, and to have a role of merely serving another, then that person will be seen as “privileged” if she enjoys even a fraction of what the other group of people takes as entitlements.