Today, a trip down memory lane to revisit an until-recently lost classic of modern misogyny: Jay Hammers’ “The Age of Consent is Misandry.” The piece, originally published on Jay Hammers’Men’s Rights blog, inspired some heated discussions amongst MRAs online, with some harshly criticizing the piece as an apologia for pedophilia and others hailing it as a “politically incorrect” masterpiece. Stung by the criticism, Hammers ultimately took his blog down. But the piece has since been resurrected on the Human-Stupidity blog – another blog that seems rather unhealthily obsessed with the supposed injustice of men not being allowed to fuck underage girls.
Here are some of its highlights (that is, lowlights); the headlines are mine.
ALL ABOUT THE MENZ
The arbitrary age of consent is not about protecting women/girls. It is about valuing females and their virtue over males and their freedom. The intent of the laws is to stop older men from having sex with younger women and that is how it is enforced. It was never intended to stop younger men from having sex with older women.
MORE BETA BLUES
Age of consent laws are designed to punish beta males. A beta male in his 20s, unsuccessful with women his own age who are infused with a sense of feminist entitlement and deride all but the top alpha males who take interest in them, who seeks companionship with a younger, sexually mature female who desires him, should not go to prison for acting on that which is normal male sexuality.
FEMINISTS WHO SUPPORT AGE OF CONSENT LAWS ARE TREATING WOMEN LIKE CHILDREN
If we are to treat women as children then we should be consistent. Young women who have sex with older men are as much victims as women who have sex with a pick-up artist after meeting at a club. In both cases, feminists are angry because the woman has been “fooled” into having sex with a less than ideal mate in terms of value. …
This is what makes feminists angry and this is why age of consent exists still today, because it is assumed women are not mentally mature enough to give consent AND because older women want to limit men’s options to increase their own value in the sexual marketplace.
BUT WOMEN ARE CHILDREN, BASICALLY
Older women … are generally not of a much higher intelligence level than teenage girls. The big difference between the two is that older women are less attractive and that is what makes them so damn angry. …
Females generally do not significantly mature mentally past puberty so it should always be illegal for any woman to have sex or it should never be illegal for any woman to have sex. There is no arbitrary age where females suddenly become self-aware, realizing the consequences of their actions, and stop seeking out alpha males. Thus there must not be an arbitrary age of consent for sex.
A MODEST PROPOSAL
If anything, it should be illegal for women to have sex with men until men have been educated on the truths of women, Marriage 2.0, Game, feminism, and men’s rights.
Discuss?
@NWO:
So the reason I’m wrong is because… women are not opressed in any aspect of society? First, take a trip to some foreign nations, like Saudi Arabia, and see how women are treated there. In the US, we don’t have it so bad, and I’ve said this multiple times, but really:
“The only thing you’re right about is equality doesn’t exist.
All law favors women over men.
Obviously the media favors women/otherwise that misandric rant couldn’t have aired on a major netowrk.
All schools teaching style and cirriculum favors women.
Medical expenses 2 to 1 women.
Reproductive right, only women.
There is no realm of society, social, political, economic that doesn’t favor women.”
1. All law? Really?
2. Obviously the media favors homophobes, racists, and kooks, since they air on major networks as well.
3. How exactly does this work? Does Math favor women? Does Computer Science?
4. I don’t know a whole lot about this, but women have babies. This would seem to be a big part of medical expenses.
5. By this, you mean that women can choose to abort some tissue inside them without the man’s input. We’ve discussed this already, no need to hash it out again.
Ugh. You know, assertion after assertion really does go nowhere. What exactly do you expect, you’ll say some magic words and all of a sudden we’ll all be enlightened to your truth, evidence and reasoning be damned?
I thought it was obvious o_o Trans ppl? xD
@ngz3120:
“You have to prove your silly assertion, that the comments section of the spearhead invalidates the whole mens movement and everything that it stands for.”
Just in case you missed this:
“kirbywarp | June 19, 2011 at 1:48 pm
@ngz3120:
It doesn’t invalidate the whole mens movement, you ass. It invalidates the spearhead. (and since the spearhead seems to be representitive, and you continually refuse to show otherwise, it invalidates MRAs to an extent as well). Many of us here agree that men’s rights are important, and some of us are actually out in the world doing things to help.”
Kirbywarp, Why do you fight for the right to be reviled, mocked and shamed? Do you like being a third class citizen by law? Do you join in the laughter when MSM news coverage portrays men as shit?
“Show where I said any of those things.”
Thats the premise of this site. All mras are defined by the angry abuse victims in the comments section of the spearhead and there is no explanation for why they are so angry in the first place given (abuse).
Mras stand for equality in compassion, law and services and breaking illusion that abuse and pain and abuse is gendered.
Manboobz stands for “what about teh mens” and invalidating mens issues based on the angry abuse victims in the spearhead comments section and laughing about it along the way.
Long story short, you are the real assholes in the online gender debate.
ngz: You have to prove your silly assertion, that the comments section of the spearhead invalidates the whole mens movement and everything that it stands for.
And you can also explain how misandric comments on feminist sites don’t invalid the whole feminist movement.
The first statement is a repeat of your strawman from before. The second presupposes I believe the first (which I keep telling you I don’t. I happen to think equal means equal. I also think equity means redressing the endemic flaws of a not yet equal system).
If I believed the first, then the second would be a valid indictment, since I don’t it’s nonsense.
Still not showing your work either. Where are these non-misogynist MRA sites?
@NWO:
Why do you continue to come here without wanting to actually discuss anything? Do you love the idea of being mocked and ridiculed for ridiculous beliefs? Do you yearn for attention that you can’t get in the real world?
If I thought any of those things, in fact if I thought even one of those things were true, I wouldn’t be part of the feminist movement, and I’d join the MRM in a heartbeat. But it isn’t true, I have faced no danger of being a third-class citizen (I have a good internship that is probably gonna turn into a job, and I’m going to one of the better colleges in the country), I have not been reviled, mocked, or shamed except by trolls in these comments, and even those don’t get to me, and the MSM (heh) doesn’t portray men as shit for being men (there is some grey area here, as I get the point about how men are portrayed in sitcoms and the like, but the actors themselves are cast on ability).
If anything, I want to join in fighting for women to enjoy the kind of life I’ve been leading thus far.
ngz: “Show where I said any of those things.” (quoting me)
Thats the premise of this site. All mras are defined by the angry abuse victims in the comments section of the spearhead and there is no explanation for why they are so angry in the first place given (abuse).
So now I am responsible, not for what I say, but for all of what gets said on Manboobz. But the MRA movement isn’t responsible for what it’s members say/support on the long list of sites on the Boobroll to the right.
If that’s your idea of equality… I can see why you are struggling with the way things are in the world.
@ngz3120:
Its very easy to see what the website is dedicated to.
“Misogyny. I mock it.
I find many of the most egregious and entertaining examples of it on Men’s Rights and Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) sites.”
“@ngz3120:
It doesn’t invalidate the whole mens movement, you ass. It invalidates the spearhead. (and since the spearhead seems to be representitive, and you continually refuse to show otherwise, it invalidates MRAs to an extent as well). Many of us here agree that men’s rights are important, and some of us are actually out in the world doing things to help.”
Show me how the angry comments invalidate the spearhead, and how these comment invalidate MRA’s to an extent
Do you agree that angry comments about men by abuse victims in feminist publications invalidate all feminists to an extent?
Do you also agree that angry comments about men by abuse victims in mainstream women’s publications invalidate all women to an extent?
Show me how the angry abuse victims in the comments section of the spearhead inviladate glen sacks, Pille Billing, Paul Elam (elam has recently told them to simmer down and said that he is glad that he never went through that much pain) or even myself.
Its guilt by association really, in the same way the angry abuse victims on the spearhead say that all women are defined by their abusers you say that all mras are invalidated by the angry abuse victims among them.
@kirbywarp
I’m a straight, white man. Mockery, hatred and ridicule is all I’ve been fed. I don’t know anything else.
@NWO:
I’m also a straight, white man, and have experienced none of these things. Are you sure you are being mocked, hated and ridculed because you are a straight white man? Or is it because you believe that bankers control the world and the Earth is only 6000 years old?
ngz: MRAs are defined (as individuals) by what they say, do, and agitate for. I’ve yet to see someone (who self-describes as an MRA) who doesn’t support the things the Boobroll is talking about. The sites you’ve linked to… in support of your arguments, are sites that are anti-woman.
If you don’t agree with them why do you direct people to them,when you are challenged about your beliefs?
Why, when a site (and notice, I’ve referred to more than just The Spearhead) is being referred to do you engage in apologetics for them (“just think about the abuse it took to make them that angry), instead of showing me the sites which aren’t full of angry , bitter, pathetic, types; who aren’t able to get past the wrongs inflicted on them by one woman, and so blame all women (which, it seems, is the thing you are upset with Manboobz for doing… all we see is the angry bitter men, not the ones who are being non-angry, non-hateful, non-violent).
All you need to do to show us up is make a link.
We know you can type. We’ve even seen you post links.
Come on, you can do it… put the nasty feminists in their place.
Manboobz has put me into moderation so his peanut gallery can win.
“So now I am responsible, not for what I say, but for all of what gets said on Manboobz. But the MRA movement isn’t responsible for what it’s members say/support on the long list of sites on the Boobroll to the right.
If that’s your idea of equality… I can see why you are struggling with the way things are in the world.”
Lol
You know full well why you are here, to oppose and slander men’s rights by exploiting the words and pain of abuse victims where they gather. That’s the point of manboobz.
@ngz3120:
Its very easy to see what the website is dedicated to.
“Misogyny. I mock it.
I find many of the most egregious and entertaining examples of it on Men’s Rights and Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) sites.”
NWO: I’m a straight white man. I have not got a college degree. I’ve not been mocked for being male.
I’ve not been denied a job for being male. I’ve not been denied a promotion for being male. I’ve not been accused of rape. I’ve not been spit on in the streets. In short, all the things you say are the trial and burden, the unbearable cross of being male in this society… I’ve not seen them.
I’ve seen people complain about them, but I’ve seen people complain the dice are loaded at Vegas, or that the horses they needed to win the six pic exacta were held back on purpose, or that they would have gotten the part of only that other person hadn’t slept with the director.
Doesn’t make ’em true, even if some people think so.
Geez, this blog moves fast…
@kirbywarp,
On birth control, it would seem to make more sense too, given that only some women use birth control (including my best friend, in part to keep her from bleeding to death from a period that otherwise never ends O_O), whereas everyone uses plastic. So yes, any environmental friends of yours can feel free to use it. Hell, my grandmother is a hardcore eco-feminist, and she’s okay with birth control (I can’t take it, though, because I physically can’t swallow pills). 🙂
Well, sure, Subby. You’ll get only hatred and ridicule if you go onto Huffington Post and Salon.com and spew a buncha unintelligible, paranoid martyr bullshit about no man (save a Rothchild, perhaps) has ever not been oppressed and kicked in the face repeatedly by feminists and/or the lizard people (who are probably one and the same, now that you think about it). That has nothing to do with how white or male or straight you are. It has everything to do with having the wrong message for your audience (or … most audiences, really).
Also, as has already been pointed out, you’re a whiny little titty-baby who sees oppression in a drop of water. I personally don’t care. You want to whine? You want to feel bad about yourself? Join Mr. Al in the corner and wipe each others’ tears. Have a blast.
Im off guys.
Manboobz seems to be is censoring my responses.
I’ll leave you on a positive note, man self immolates outside family courts, mra’s are angry.
What about teh menz LOL!
ngz: Moderation isn’t to support the peanut gallery. I’ve been moderated (in a response to you, on this thread).
I’ve had a comment deleted. Dave thought I crossed a line. Kirbywarp, as I recall, also thought so. That probably means I wasn’t as clear in trying to make the point as I thought I was. It was a strong statement. I am still not sure I did cross the line, in the way Dave took it.
Guess what, I didn’t whine about it.
Ngz, I’m honestly curious here and I don’t want to make any assumptions here. It’s just that a lot of MRAs are homophobic, so I’m wondering what your view of gay/bi men is.
I ask because of the number you quote above, and again I’ll be honest, I want to know if you’re being sincere when you bring up suicide factors as another huge factor in male suicides is sexuality. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology_of_suicide#Sexual_orientation_and_suicide
You didn’t include any source for your figures so I had to do a little Googling. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/03/14/broadcasts/main172016.shtml
That’s horrifying, and there definitely needs to be more support for divorcees, particularly men considering that divorce does put them at a higher risk of suicide than it does women. There needs to be more support groups (especially other men telling them it’s okay to ask for help) and more available counselling/therapy (and being a proud Canadian, I do believe it should be funded through universal health care).
@Pecunium
Look at it this way.
All Law favors women over men, and women lobbied for and like that status.
Education rewards women for good behavior and conformity and teaches men are bad and have always been bad. Women are good and have been oppressed by men, always.
Men have no reproductive rights at all.
Men have no rights in marriage/divorce.
Women have all social rights.
Women are praised infinitely by the MSM while men are reviled, mocked and hated.
Suffice to say women are praised in all walks of life, while men portrayed and treated like shit in all walks of life.
Women have lobbied for these rights/laws, social norms or the simply garnish and accept them as normal. They use any number of these little perks at their convenience. You also want to be loved for treating men like shit in all realms of society. Don’t expect to be treated any differently than how YOU treat men. Hatred in. Hatred out.
noogz, for what it’s worth, I’m being moderated too. Maybe the moderator doodad is being picky today.
@Tabby counselling/therapy (that’s not a psychiatrist) is unfortunately difficult to obtain once you’re older than 25 to have it covered by health care : I know this from personal exp -_-;; And harder still if you’re looking for ones that are friendly to specific oppression (queer ppl, trans ppl, immigrants, etc) : But there are crisis and trauma centres for men that do offer those services for free. Also psychiatry is covered by health care. :] But I do think there should be more centres for counselling, for all ppl, incl men who are dealing with a difficult divorce… what I find confusing is the “zero sum game” that seems to be played, as if ppl working to reduce other factors of suicide in our society, and for this issue, of men… like homophobia, which is a huge thing, the suicide rate of queer and trans ppl is frightening, and that’s part of the big suicide rate of boys (I said trans ppl, b/c for these issues, even tho trans girls are girls, if they killed themselves pre-transition, they’d be listed under the male stats, and who knows where specific MRAs put them, radfems would consider them listed under men xD) , as well as bullying (an issue rly important to fight, ideas of boys will be boys, suck it up, etc >:| ), pressures from peers and parents, drug use, mental illness (depression, etc)… are thus working against lack of support for ppl facing divorce.. or etc… rather than we should all work together (:]) to fight all of the areas, or each focusing on certain areas, b/c they’re all desperately important and adding to tragic results :
Also guys, I hope that in the future, you guys never dismiss what I say b/c I’m a survivor and say that b/c of that my voice shouldn’t be taken sincerely :
NWO: Look at it this way.
All Law favors women over men, and women lobbied for and like that status.
Education rewards women for good behavior and conformity and teaches men are bad and have always been bad. Women are good and have been oppressed by men, always.
Men have no reproductive rights at all.
Men have no rights in marriage/divorce.
Women have all social rights.
Women are praised infinitely by the MSM while men are reviled, mocked and hated.
Suffice to say women are praised in all walks of life, while men portrayed and treated like shit in all walks of life.
I can’t look at it that way… it’s not true.
I don’t know who the, “you” is in this, “You also want to be loved for treating men like shit in all realms of society. Don’t expect to be treated any differently than how YOU treat men. Hatred in. Hatred out.”
I don’t treat men like shit. Women don’t treat me like shit. It may be that you are right… you seem to be, at the very least, angry at women. You also seem to think women are being angry toward you.
Treat them like that, and perhaps they treat you like that.