Today, a trip down memory lane to revisit an until-recently lost classic of modern misogyny: Jay Hammers’ “The Age of Consent is Misandry.” The piece, originally published on Jay Hammers’Men’s Rights blog, inspired some heated discussions amongst MRAs online, with some harshly criticizing the piece as an apologia for pedophilia and others hailing it as a “politically incorrect” masterpiece. Stung by the criticism, Hammers ultimately took his blog down. But the piece has since been resurrected on the Human-Stupidity blog – another blog that seems rather unhealthily obsessed with the supposed injustice of men not being allowed to fuck underage girls.
Here are some of its highlights (that is, lowlights); the headlines are mine.
ALL ABOUT THE MENZ
The arbitrary age of consent is not about protecting women/girls. It is about valuing females and their virtue over males and their freedom. The intent of the laws is to stop older men from having sex with younger women and that is how it is enforced. It was never intended to stop younger men from having sex with older women.
MORE BETA BLUES
Age of consent laws are designed to punish beta males. A beta male in his 20s, unsuccessful with women his own age who are infused with a sense of feminist entitlement and deride all but the top alpha males who take interest in them, who seeks companionship with a younger, sexually mature female who desires him, should not go to prison for acting on that which is normal male sexuality.
FEMINISTS WHO SUPPORT AGE OF CONSENT LAWS ARE TREATING WOMEN LIKE CHILDREN
If we are to treat women as children then we should be consistent. Young women who have sex with older men are as much victims as women who have sex with a pick-up artist after meeting at a club. In both cases, feminists are angry because the woman has been “fooled” into having sex with a less than ideal mate in terms of value. …
This is what makes feminists angry and this is why age of consent exists still today, because it is assumed women are not mentally mature enough to give consent AND because older women want to limit men’s options to increase their own value in the sexual marketplace.
BUT WOMEN ARE CHILDREN, BASICALLY
Older women … are generally not of a much higher intelligence level than teenage girls. The big difference between the two is that older women are less attractive and that is what makes them so damn angry. …
Females generally do not significantly mature mentally past puberty so it should always be illegal for any woman to have sex or it should never be illegal for any woman to have sex. There is no arbitrary age where females suddenly become self-aware, realizing the consequences of their actions, and stop seeking out alpha males. Thus there must not be an arbitrary age of consent for sex.
A MODEST PROPOSAL
If anything, it should be illegal for women to have sex with men until men have been educated on the truths of women, Marriage 2.0, Game, feminism, and men’s rights.
Discuss?
For sexual age of consent, I like the system in Washington State (where I lived when this was relevant): 13 and under shouldn’t have sex. 14-15 can have sex with up to 2 years older. 16-17 can have sex with up to 4 years older, and at 18 anything goes.
It allows kids to experiment together and with slightly older people and avoids “boy with 17-year-old girlfriend becomes a criminal on his 18th birthday” absurdities, but still keeps the 30-year-olds at bay.
@Holly:
“13 and under shouldn’t have sex. 14-15 can have sex with up to 2 years older. 16-17 can have sex with up to 4 years older, and at 18 anything goes.”
That’s it. This. This exactly. (Man, I am really all over the place.) I could be convinced of slightly larger age ranges actually, but something of this form sounds like a really good solution.
Yeah, but how do you apply that to other stuff? 15 year olds can have lite beer, 16 a shot, and 18 anything goes? 😛
Kirbywarp: There are a lot of states with that (basic) set up. Hawai’i, when it finally made the “brightline” at 16, left in age range rules, so the age of consent there is something close to 14, in practical terms. I seem to recall the allowable gap is 4 years, so 18 can have sex with 14 (which I think is iffy, at best), but 19 can’t.
@Kirbywarp: There have also been studies that suggest the amount of estrogen in the water may have more to do with plastic than birth control but the end result is the same.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090326100714.htm
We dump a lot stuff in our water.
@Holly, I really like the leveled system you just described. As a guide-line I think its pretty outstanding.
I think the need for the “bright line” is how we ended up with idea of on the books age of consent laws, initially. Should it be national like the drinking age?
You could do it for trans ppl.. hormone blockers at 14, full hormones at 16, surgery at 18 if you wanted to : (not saying this is the right way to do it, but that’s something you COULD do “phasing” in if ppl were rly freaking out about it, and the hormone blockers would prevent puberty but can also be stopped to allow puberty to continue, tho 14 might be too late for some 🙂
Molly Ren: It used to be like that sort of. There were a lot of places where 18-21 could drink 3.2 beer, but nothing stronger.
The feds (under Reagan) made that impossible, by saying that any state which didn’t (in the summer of 1982) prohibit all alcohol consumption by anyone under the age of 21 would lose all federal money for supporting the interstate highways in the state.
But they would also be legally responsible for maintaining those roads.
Hence the nationwide drinking age of 21.
The thing is that sex is a multi-person ordeal, while the rest (drinking, hormones, etc.) are concerned with just the person. So for things that only involve the person, it might be easier and just as effective to keep a bright line.
“I could be convinced of slightly larger age ranges actually, but something of this form sounds like a really good solution.”
I can’t find a list of states that have them, but Texas, Kansas, Florida, and a few other states have Romeo and Juliet laws like that, exempting sex between teens within a certain age range from statutory rape laws, or at least diminishing the punishment. I don’t know a whole lot about it … I am actually a little shocked to find that in Kansas it only applies to heterosexual teens.
@Bee @Pecunium Canada has those laws too (14 y/os can be w/ 18 y/os)
@Bee:
Knowing what has been going on in Kansas lately, I’m shocked but sadly not surprised… -_-
I posted a link to such a list before… here it is again age of consent/age gap/mistaken age defense
@kirbywarp but the law for age of consent isn’t to protect the older person, so it’s still about the person in question… i know the fear is that with another person in the mix, that means that they could be manipulated or coerced, but that can be applicable in other situations as well like consenting to boxing, MMA, signing contracts, etc (and often is used for situations like abortion, pregnancy, gender identity, that they’re not mature enuf and are being coerced, tho w/ GID an easy solution would be to get rid of mandatory psych evaluations, real life tests and doctor’s letters, which would be GREAT xD )
Ami – Arguably, everything involves other people–the prohibition on kids drinking is less about drinking itself than about the things people do when they’re drunk. (Getting in fights, driving drunk, having unprotected sex, and so forth.) So I’m not sure that “involves other people” is a bright line in itself.
“You could do it for trans ppl.. hormone blockers at 14, full hormones at 16, surgery at 18 if you wanted to :”
They showed a school for kids where that was the goal, in “Becoming Chaz.” It was really interesting. The school seemed like a great place — at least what they showed of it. I am having a little bit of a problem with Chaz himself, what with his statements about testosterone and his newly annoying girlfriend, but the documentary had some interesting stuff in it. Yes, I do watch the O channel. Busted.
Oh, here’s the gross Kansas law, in case anyone’s curious. I waned to see if it had been changed. Nope! But no such thing as straight privilege, y’know.
@Ami:
They aren’t to protect the older person, they are to protect the older person from the younger person. It’s true that coercion can exist in any situation, but I don’t think that should effect the age limit for other things. The rationale is that we aren’t litigating a person’s resistance to coercian, we are litigating a persons ability to make the decision in the first place. If it was the former, we’d take into consideration how easily a person can resist another person’s buffaloing (couldn’t think of the right word, so thought I’d use a weird one). With sex this fear is an inherent part of the act.
I’ve got to turn in.
I just wanted to say that this turned into a terrific discussion and I’m glad that the meet up went so well.
Also, did any of you see Transgeneration? http://www.sundancechannel.com/transgeneration
Really, really good.
Chaz pisses me off a lot w/ the statements he’s making (and the trans guys I know are even MORE angry). : And I get that this is still a new thing for him, and ALSO that the media is eating it up and spreading it, cuz it’s the narrative that ppl want to hear (that gendered actions/thoughts/etc are natural and caused by either genetics or hormones) but he’s the one w/ the platform and he’s the one who’s claiming to speak for trans ppl, and our experiences, and more than that, as some sort of objective voice on how each gender feels now too -__-;;; I think the thing is, that when you transition and you become more comfortable with yourself, things will come out that you were repressing before, or afraid to exhibit … or that you feel you CAN now… : or you notice the stuff you want to notice… or other ppl do… (like if trans woman still likes sports, but now goes clothes shopping a lot b/c it’s something she never felt she could do before, or kept herself from doing, ppl will observe this and go “ahhhh see she’s filling her natural instincts” when in fact they’re just seeing the part they want to see and fitting it into the narrative they want to believe, conversely, trans-exclusionary rad fems see that as proof that a trans woman is a man who is trying to mimic a stereotypical woman’s behaviour)
*hugs Nobinayamu* good night :3 It was nice talking w/ you here too :]
“they are to protect the older person from the younger person”
Urk, just noticed this typo.. should be:
“they are to protect the younger person from the older person”
Hmm, I could have sworn I posted something …
Anyway, I checked the Kansas Code current through 2010, to see if they changed their gross homophobic law that punishes young gay lovers. They have not. Of course, heterosexual privilege still does not exist. Look the other way!
Also, good convos = troll repellent. 😀 I like this side effect.
I’m going night-night (cripes… more like morning-morning) too.
It’s kind of nice having actual conversations between the non-trolls here. Thanks for steering the conversation that way, Ami. We should probably do that more often.
@Holly So I’m not sure that “involves other people” is a bright line in itself.
that’s exactly what I was saying :3