Today, a trip down memory lane to revisit an until-recently lost classic of modern misogyny: Jay Hammers’ “The Age of Consent is Misandry.” The piece, originally published on Jay Hammers’Men’s Rights blog, inspired some heated discussions amongst MRAs online, with some harshly criticizing the piece as an apologia for pedophilia and others hailing it as a “politically incorrect” masterpiece. Stung by the criticism, Hammers ultimately took his blog down. But the piece has since been resurrected on the Human-Stupidity blog – another blog that seems rather unhealthily obsessed with the supposed injustice of men not being allowed to fuck underage girls.
Here are some of its highlights (that is, lowlights); the headlines are mine.
ALL ABOUT THE MENZ
The arbitrary age of consent is not about protecting women/girls. It is about valuing females and their virtue over males and their freedom. The intent of the laws is to stop older men from having sex with younger women and that is how it is enforced. It was never intended to stop younger men from having sex with older women.
MORE BETA BLUES
Age of consent laws are designed to punish beta males. A beta male in his 20s, unsuccessful with women his own age who are infused with a sense of feminist entitlement and deride all but the top alpha males who take interest in them, who seeks companionship with a younger, sexually mature female who desires him, should not go to prison for acting on that which is normal male sexuality.
FEMINISTS WHO SUPPORT AGE OF CONSENT LAWS ARE TREATING WOMEN LIKE CHILDREN
If we are to treat women as children then we should be consistent. Young women who have sex with older men are as much victims as women who have sex with a pick-up artist after meeting at a club. In both cases, feminists are angry because the woman has been “fooled” into having sex with a less than ideal mate in terms of value. …
This is what makes feminists angry and this is why age of consent exists still today, because it is assumed women are not mentally mature enough to give consent AND because older women want to limit men’s options to increase their own value in the sexual marketplace.
BUT WOMEN ARE CHILDREN, BASICALLY
Older women … are generally not of a much higher intelligence level than teenage girls. The big difference between the two is that older women are less attractive and that is what makes them so damn angry. …
Females generally do not significantly mature mentally past puberty so it should always be illegal for any woman to have sex or it should never be illegal for any woman to have sex. There is no arbitrary age where females suddenly become self-aware, realizing the consequences of their actions, and stop seeking out alpha males. Thus there must not be an arbitrary age of consent for sex.
A MODEST PROPOSAL
If anything, it should be illegal for women to have sex with men until men have been educated on the truths of women, Marriage 2.0, Game, feminism, and men’s rights.
Discuss?
Yeah, NWO, I went to college and smoked a lot of weed there. I know all about hemp, the founding fathers, etc. This isn’t secret information and many doctors recognize the benefits of marijuana as medicine. There are organizations all over the U.S. working to change and amend the laws.
Lay of the Big Daddy government shit, already. We’ve never had a discussion about politics and you don’t know a fucking thing. about where I stand.
“We can argue, I guess, that our understanding of the human brain and how undeveloped the frontal lobe is, into the early twenties, is part of the reason for this change in attitude. But that’s a real chicken and the egg kind of thing.”
Yeah, this is where I always get stuck on discussions of ageism and maturity. What’s a good measure of maturity? Is “frontal lobe development” a better indication than age? How on earth would this be enforced? XD
I’m reminded of something that Pecunium said earlier, about there being a “bright line” dividing age of consent from non-consent because it was a complicated issue, and by having a clear line it made it more fair? (Sorry if that’s a mis-quote, I don’t want to go back through all the comments again! o.O) Like, can you even make a law that would be enforced strictly on the basis of the maturity of a person?
So NWO is against abortion, against consent laws, and for pot? And a class A conspiracy theorist to boot? And a YEC? Wonders never cease…
@Molly Ren
Its possible that parents don’t want their children to have to do stuff like earn money for food, or drive themselves around. But besides earning money, I’m sure there are households where teens help cook meals, take public transportation when they want to go somewhere, and so on. I think its a protective instinct; the more protective the parent, the less able the child is to actually take care of themselves when they are supposed to be able to.
@Nobinayamu:
That’s about what I was expecting actually. An “age of majority” to be able to be considered separate from your guardians (parents included), which probably should include stuff like drinking (I agree with Alex here), and an “age of decisions” where a kid can make decisions in certain areas. There is one problem I just thought of, which is whether parents would be held responsible for decisions made at the “age of decision” or not…
This may not be an issue, since parents usually want the best for their kids, but stuff like getting an abortion, just like any surgery, would have to be signed for by the parents when the kid is under the age of majority. Hrm.. its complicated. But something like that seems to make sense: a person is able to make intelligent decisions before they are expected to be able to take care of themselves…
urk.. now that almost doesn’t make sense…
I think the problem is you all like to be coddled. If you read the stories from long ago of our founding fathers and such. The admirals of the time were usually cabin boys at age 9 and 10 and learned to read and about life. The leaders and even common folk had responsibilites at far younger ages.
You all run to the State for advice, to settle disputes, oh for anything at all. It’s like you want to defer all thought and decisions to the State. And then beg for more marching orders from the State. Grow up.
“I think the problem is you all like to be coddled.”
This might sorta be true. The reason we view teens as immature is possibly because we expect them to be, and raise them to be. Basically, if we expected 16 year olds to be able to operate on their own, they probably would be able to. (most, anyway). So I guess we’re caught up in culture and holdovers from the past here.
But if we grow up, NWO, you won’t want to fuck us anymore!
@Holly,
I am so sorry that happened to you. I always have to stop when sex gets painful for me and I can only imagine how awful that would be if it didn’t stop… *hugs*
See, I agree with Pecunium. The fact that it is so variable is why we have to draw the line. Otherwise, we’re neuro-imaging everybody from 14 years of age on (paid for but I don’t know who) and trying assess every person on a case by case basis. How would it work?
And if we make laws around average frontal lobe maturity, then no one will be allowed to do anything until they’re twenty-five. That won’t work either.
Maybe a single age doesn’t exist? Maybe there should be something, like a driving exam, that allows you to start making these sorts of decisions? I can only see problems stemming from that (think DMV for sex…)
But heres the issue; is there even a single age where children become able to think for themselves? Or does it depend on upbringing?
Kirbywarp, I’m remembering something like, “Childhood was invented in the Victorian era!” Because baby death rates became lower, maybe?
Urk.. I do so much better in a face to face conversation.. Stuff like this can’t be discussed in a single monolthic post by each participant…
You spend the better part of a day (and I was right here with you, no excuses) whining because 16 year old girls don’t want to fuck you, and you’d rather blame feminism than acknowledge that 16 year girls just don’t want to fuck you and you’re telling other people that they’re coddled? We need to grow up?
Please go away. Totally done with you at this point.
Like I said, if you have a problem with the government, then go live someplace that’s government free.
@Molly:
I’m sure that has something to do with it. When people had a high probability of dying before their thirties, it was more important to become an adult as quickly as possible, and children adapted to be able to do it. Like Nobinayamu said, we’ve extended the idea of childhood, and perhaps children have stayed children in that extension because of it.
I think that as people began to have fewer children, and those children began to survive through infancy and childhood more reliably, then we definitely began to extend and expand the concept of childhood. My grandfather lied about his age so that he could join the arm and fight in World War II. Totally normal for that era.
But I wouldn’t want my son to do such a thing. And if he tried it, I’d try to stop him. Very different ideas.
“DMV for sex”
I *like* that idea! I’m imagining a series of tests asking you to cook for yourself, deal with angry housemates, fill out a lease, etc.
Of course, this also reminds me of the 4 years of abstinence-only sex ed I was subject to. We’d pretty much have to overhaul the entire education system to get this to work!
On the “age of decision” thing – I actually think having stepped ages is a good thing. I like the fact that I had a couple years of partial responsibility, of being allowed to drive before I could sign contracts, of living on my own before I could drink. I think that’s easier to adapt to than “happy birthday! you’re an adult now” and having to deal with every facet of that at once.
So, I’m older than you and didn’t have abstinence education in High School. Our sex-ed was, um, very comprehensive. But my sister works with patients who’ve been to junior high and high school under the abstinence only laws and their ignorance is astonishing.
They have a tenuous grasp on the basics. Teenagers have always been able to figure out how to have sex. But there understanding of biology, conception, pregnancy, STIs, etc. is deplorable. I’d be up for something like a DMV for sex if it came with some comprehensive education.
Molly Ren – Never mind testing; I wish there was more education on how to do real things. I had Home Ec and learned a little bit of cooking and mending, but I would gladly have given up a semester of Social Studies in order to have a class where they taught kids how to find an apartment, how to keep your credit rating up, how to tell if something is a scam, how to treat minor diseases and when to see a doctor, even how to deal with arguments in a relationship.
@Molly:
“We’d pretty much have to overhaul the entire education system to get this to work!”
Maybe not? We already integrate SATs after highschool, and a lot of schools offer Driver’s Ed in preperation for the driving test. Perhaps a maturity test of some form could be given as a standard part of schooling? This still has a lot of problems with implementation, but its a start.
I wonder though, on the other hand. If there were a single age, lets say 16, where it was decided that such a child could make decisions, would parents adapt their parenting to prepare their children for being that age? Sorta like “the talk” some parents have about drugs and sex and alchohol. Maybe we don’t need to worry about implementation, and just focus on some objective way of determining when children are capable of such things?
I think part of the problem is that inherent in making decisions is being responsible for their outcome. Can it be said that children truly make decisions if the outcome of their decisions doesn’t matter?
Nobinayamu – In addition to the biology of it, I also wish sex ed covered more of the psychology of sex: how to say no, how to say yes, how to untangle sex from status and “winning” and shame, how to talk honestly and openly about sex.
…It’s a pipe dream, I guess, but a fun one.
“I had a couple years of partial responsibility, of being allowed to drive before I could sign contracts, of living on my own before I could drink.”
I was one of those momma’s girls who didn’t ache to move out. 😛 My big experience of the world & responsibility was college. Weirdly, even tho I was better prepared than some of my peers (I could cook and manage money!) that *still* wasn’t enough. How much of “being adult” can be taught or tested?
@Holly and Molly:
Grah, I’m going everywhere on this. See, I like the idea of stepped ages too, Holly, and your reasoning perhaps mitigates my last concern.
On schooling, while I think its a great idea, don’t the parents have some responsibility to teach their kids about these things? Should it really be left up to the school?
Also, what would we do with that group of 30-year-olds and over who never passed the maturity test? Could they never marry? Never drink? Never sign leases? 😛
Uh, fluoride is good for my teeth. Last I checked. Are all my dentists lying to me?
IT’S A CONSPIRACY, PLYMOUTH. STOP DRINKING WATER AND EAT ONLY ICE CREAM FROM NOW ON!