Today, a trip down memory lane to revisit an until-recently lost classic of modern misogyny: Jay Hammers’ “The Age of Consent is Misandry.” The piece, originally published on Jay Hammers’Men’s Rights blog, inspired some heated discussions amongst MRAs online, with some harshly criticizing the piece as an apologia for pedophilia and others hailing it as a “politically incorrect” masterpiece. Stung by the criticism, Hammers ultimately took his blog down. But the piece has since been resurrected on the Human-Stupidity blog – another blog that seems rather unhealthily obsessed with the supposed injustice of men not being allowed to fuck underage girls.
Here are some of its highlights (that is, lowlights); the headlines are mine.
ALL ABOUT THE MENZ
The arbitrary age of consent is not about protecting women/girls. It is about valuing females and their virtue over males and their freedom. The intent of the laws is to stop older men from having sex with younger women and that is how it is enforced. It was never intended to stop younger men from having sex with older women.
MORE BETA BLUES
Age of consent laws are designed to punish beta males. A beta male in his 20s, unsuccessful with women his own age who are infused with a sense of feminist entitlement and deride all but the top alpha males who take interest in them, who seeks companionship with a younger, sexually mature female who desires him, should not go to prison for acting on that which is normal male sexuality.
FEMINISTS WHO SUPPORT AGE OF CONSENT LAWS ARE TREATING WOMEN LIKE CHILDREN
If we are to treat women as children then we should be consistent. Young women who have sex with older men are as much victims as women who have sex with a pick-up artist after meeting at a club. In both cases, feminists are angry because the woman has been “fooled” into having sex with a less than ideal mate in terms of value. …
This is what makes feminists angry and this is why age of consent exists still today, because it is assumed women are not mentally mature enough to give consent AND because older women want to limit men’s options to increase their own value in the sexual marketplace.
BUT WOMEN ARE CHILDREN, BASICALLY
Older women … are generally not of a much higher intelligence level than teenage girls. The big difference between the two is that older women are less attractive and that is what makes them so damn angry. …
Females generally do not significantly mature mentally past puberty so it should always be illegal for any woman to have sex or it should never be illegal for any woman to have sex. There is no arbitrary age where females suddenly become self-aware, realizing the consequences of their actions, and stop seeking out alpha males. Thus there must not be an arbitrary age of consent for sex.
A MODEST PROPOSAL
If anything, it should be illegal for women to have sex with men until men have been educated on the truths of women, Marriage 2.0, Game, feminism, and men’s rights.
Discuss?
Nobinayamu
Is this ficticious girl not accountable for the offer she made me.
Ami, that’s what IM and blog posts are for? 😛
Actually, I think we’re staying on track a bit better than we have in other threads. Not like that’s saying a lot!
@Ami:
Just noticed your post. Count this as a vote to talk about that stuff if people are interested.
“Is this ficticious girl not accountable for the offer she made me.”
NO, NWOSLAVE, SHE’S NOT. YOU’RE ONLY ACCOUNTABLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS IF YOU ACT ON THEM.
NWO, you aren’t being punished. If you can attract a 16 or 17 year old girl in a state where 16 or17 is the age of consent (i.e. the vast majority of states and countries) then have at it.
No one is punishing you. Men came up with the age of consent laws over 100 years ago. Take it up with them.
And you can drop that state, deity bull shit now. I read that thread, but I didn’t participate and you don’t know a fucking thing about what I think about religion, morality, or “the State”. You want to live you someplace with no government? Then get your dumb-ass off of my government created internet and take it to the government free paradise of Somalia. I bet the age of consent there is really low.
kirbywarp
There is no grey area. She, the 16 year old beauty, in a state where thats to young, offered me sex. I said yes. Even though the offer was hers. In fact if you want to play the power dynamic game the power to offer or not offer was hers alone. I never coerced or initiated. How in the world was I on the top of the power dynamic?
Damn, you guys were prolific while I was out running errands and doing yard work. There’s like 4 more pages of comments. I’ll never catch up!
Oh, dear, 16 year olds are throwing themselves as NWOSlave now? What did I miss? Are they trying to entrap him with their feminist wiles and get him sent to jail?
Because, NWO, you are an adult. And society has placed you in a position that accords you certain legal rights and responsibilities that she does not enjoy. It is an inherently imbalanced situation. And that explanation doesn’t even cover the developmental differences between an adolescent and an adult. Her brain is still developing; yours is not. There’s a neurological reason behind the fact adolescents often make rash and ill-considered decisions. Nor does your hypothetical scenario acknowledge the reality that an offer of sex can be coerced.
Don’t have sex with that girl, NWOslave, she’s trying to steal your precious bodily fluids!
NWO:
Age of consent laws mean the age at which a person is legally able to consent to certain actions. It doesn’t matter whether they are accepting an offer or offering, if they are below this age, they are not legally able to consent.
Therefore, you were justifiably imprisoned for accepting her offer. She was not legally able to make the offer in the first place. You could have waited one or two years if you really wanted, but if you wanted sex, you were out of luck.
Is this still hypothetical?
Ami, we can change the subject if you want. We’ve beaten this age of consent thing to death. 😛
I’ll bring you up to date Plymouth
Radiation doesn’t cause cancer.
Flouride is good for you.
And right now I’m being crucified because a ficticous 16 year old beauty offered me sex in a State where that age is too young. I foolishly said yes, and now I’m going to jail. And it’s all my fault.
No, you fucking titty-baby. No.
She made you an offer. You had sex with her. In your hypothetical, if you did this knowing that the age of consent law in the state that you were in was 17 and she was 16, then you broke the law. If you’re caught, arrested, tried, and convicted you’ll spend time in jail or prison. It’s really pretty simple.
I like to smoke marijuana. I don’t think it’s harmful, I know it’s beneficial for me as it helps me manage my depression (well it did, I am currently free of the wonderful, wacky weed) and I know that it has health benefits for people who suffer from chronic illnesses that cause them pain, decreased appetite and other symptoms. When I purchased it, I tried to do so responsibly from private growers so I could avoid feeling guilty. I disagree with the laws that make its use and purchase illegal and believe that I can point out why these laws are stupid, ineffective, and in some ways immoral.
But if I get caught smoking weed by law enforcement types, they’re taking me to jail because it’s against the law. Period.
Look, no 16 year old who isn’t being trafficked is going to offer you sex, so you don’t have to worry about it. But in the event that it does happen, you are free to say no. Or, you know, do a quick internet search and figure out if 16 is legal in that state.
But for fuck’s sake, stop all this goddamn whining.
Crucified? Seriously? Such a fucking a titty-baby.
For God’s sake, deny her your essence!
@NWO:
Saying you would be imprisoned is equal to nailing you up on a cross and leaving you to hang and die? Right..
@Molly and Ami:
Lets get this ball rolling then. First off, does it make sense to try to come up with what I mentioned earlier, a legally recognized “age of decision?” This would encompass things from sex to drinking. Or does it make sense to talk about each issue individually? For instance, 18-year olds are able to sign for themselves as separate from their guardians, and essentially become independant adults. Should this be the same logic used in consent laws?
Ami, you’re right.
Man, I went out with a friend to relax and what did we do? Spent the entire time reading Manboobz…
Okay, this one is really getting to me, so it’s time for our friend Mr. CAPSLOCKY!
A LITTLE BIT OF RADIATION IS ONLY A LITTLE BIT BAD FOR YOU. A LOT OF RADIATION IS A LOT BAD FOR YOU. A MAMMOGRAM IS ONLY A VERY, VERY LITTLE BIT OF RADIATION.
…And that’s why your ethical duty is to respond to a child asking you for sex the same way you’d respond to a child asking to have candy for dinner: “As an adult, I know better, so it’s my responsibility to not let you have that.”
Sorry David, this might be a bit long.
@Mr. Slave,
“You also “feel” that a man should be jailed if he is 22 while having sex with a 17 year old girl. Right?”
Firstly, Kirbywarp made a good distinction between 17 and 22, and 16 and 30. Secondly, there may be exceptions where someone 22 is on the same level as someone 17, certainly more exceptions than 22 and 16, 23 and 17, 22 and 15, 24 and 17, etc. But a line needs to be drawn somewhere, and it should be a line that prohibits someone 18 years of age from taking advantage of someone 13 years of age.
At 18, you’re pretty well guaranteed to be old enough to have graduated high school; what you do after that is your responsibility. And that makes it a good age of consent for a lot of things (I still don’t get the drinking thing for 19 and 21). So why a four year exemption? First of all, I don’t believe an 18 to 21-year-old should be punished for having sex with a 17-year-old. That’s ridiculous. Furthermore, a 17-year-old dating a 13-year-old is kind of weird, and possibly creepy, especially if that 13-year-old is still in grade school/middle school, but it’s not nearly as bad an 18-year-old high school graduate or possible college student having ‘sex’ with a 13-year-old who is, at most, in hir first year of high school and might not even have started puberty yet. The experience level of the two are completely different, and, yes, there is too much of a power-dynamic.
For the record, I was 21 and when a 16-year-old co-worker of mine attempted to flirt with me in the same manner of a man who was 22. I tolerated the flirting from the 22-year-old, but when the 16-year-old tried it, my immediate reaction was “Eew! You’re a little kid! My younger brother’s older than you!” Wasn’t even something I had to think about. The fact of the matter was he was in grade 11, and I had just finished my second year of college. That said, it would be nice if every case of breaching the age of consent were investigated on an individual basis if one partner was five years older than the other, but I just don’t see that as being doable. It’s difficult enough trying to enforce age of consent laws as they are. Is it really feasible to have a six year exemption for 17, a five year exemption for 16, a four year exemption for 15, a three year exemption for 14, etc.? I don’t think so. Thus, I reiterate: a line needs to be drawn somewhere. If a 17-year-old and 22-year-old are dating, the older partner can wait a year. It might suck, but it’s not that hard, and that year will pass.
So should a man be jailed at 22 if does have sex with a 17-year-old girl? The fact that you call him a man and her a girl is pretty telling of how you yourself see the two, but still don’t see anything wrong with it. Jail seems a little harsh to me, but I think at least a fine is in order, and the same should go if the younger is male and/or if the older is female and/or if either partner is intersex for that matter. A 30-year-old with a 16-year-old? Jail. Absolutely.
Something that struck me earlier in the thread was the description of a 16-ish teen who was woken up by her mom every morning, was dependent on her parents for money, food, and transport, etc. I feel like a teen should be able to do more than that to take care of themselves. Is it cultural that keeps them from doing so? Maturity? Did we just pick a really affluent example and the other teens are slaving away already at McDonald’s?
How’d I do? Was that a good effort to get the convo back to cooler stuff? >>
@Kirby: I hesitate to think immediately “18” because it feels very U.S.-centric. But it’s always the number that sticks out for me. Perhaps something like, 18 as the age of majority and 16 as the legally recognized age of decision?
I’m not sure, legally, how the delineation would be worded. There are already things that you can do at 21 that you can’t do at 18. So many of them seem fairly superficial, though.
Not only that Nobinayamu but
REFUSING TO GROW HEMP in America during the 17th and 18th Centuries WAS AGAINST THE LAW! You could be jailed in Virginia for refusing to grow hemp from 1763 to 1769; Hemp in Colonial Virginia, G. M. Herdon.
George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and other founding fathers GREW HEMP; Washington and Jefferson Diaries. Jefferson smuggled hemp seeds from China to France then to America.
80% of all textiles, fabrics, clothes, linen, drapes, bed sheets, etc. were made from hemp until the 1820s with the introduction of the cotton gin.
The first crop grown in many states was hemp. 1850 was a peak year for Kentucky producing 40,000 tons. Hemp was the largest cash crop until the 20th Century; State Archives.
In 1916, the U.S. Government predicted that by the 1940s all paper would come from hemp and that no more trees need to be cut down. Government studies report that 1 acre of hemp equals 4.1 acres of trees. Plans were in the works to implement such programs; Department of Agriculture
Quality paints and varnishes were made from hemp seed oil until 1937. 58,000 tons of hemp seeds were used in America for paint products in 1935; Sherman Williams Paint Co. testimony before Congress against the 1937 Marijuana Tax Act.
Henry Ford’s first Model-T was built to run on hemp gasoline and the CAR ITSELF WAS CONTRUCTED FROM HEMP! On his large estate, Ford was photographed among his hemp fields. The car, ‘grown from the soil,’ had hemp plastic panels whose impact strength was 10 times stronger than steel; Popular Mechanics, 1941.
William Randolph Hearst (Citizen Kane) and the Hearst Paper Manufacturing Division of Kimberly Clark owned vast acreage of timberlands. The Hearst Company supplied most paper products. Patty Hearst’s grandfather, a destroyer of nature for his own personal profit, stood to lose billions because of hemp.
In 1937, Dupont patented the processes to make plastics from oil and coal. Dupont’s Annual Report urged stockholders to invest in its new petrochemical division. Synthetics such as plastics, cellophane, celluloid, methanol, nylon, rayon, Dacron, etc., could now be made from oil. Natural hemp industrialization would have ruined over 80% of Dupont’s business.
It seems your deity, Big Daddy has been lying to you. The list of the natural medical miracle known as MaryJane is endless.
“does it make sense to try to come up with what I mentioned earlier, a legally recognized “age of decision?” This would encompass things from sex to drinking. Or does it make sense to talk about each issue individually? For instance, 18-year olds are able to sign for themselves as separate from their guardians, and essentially become independant adults. Should this be the same logic used in consent laws?”
I think someone raised the question earlier of whether getting a tat and having sex was equivalent, but I’m not seeing too much of a conflict.
Would the age still be 18? Why that particular year?
@Molly Ren: I was the one who pointed out that a 14 year old would have very little responsibility and would in all likelihood be relying on her parents for everything from rides to school, to food, clothing and shelter. And, admittedly, for the sake of the argument (that 14 year old girls aren’t women) that was a very privileged example. When I was 14, I took the subway to school and was regularly in charge of getting dinner for my sisters, and baby-sat for extra money, and went to a rigorously academic high school that prided itself on its students having no less than 3 hours of homework every evening.
And my life was still fairly privileged. There are, undoubtedly, 14 year olds shouldering enormous duties and responsibilities in their families. And there are 14 year olds I wouldn’t trust to be able to tie their shoes. It’s all so variable.
We’ve extended the idea of childhood. We created the idea of teenagers almost out of whole-cloth. Sixteen and seventeen year olds got married (to each other, NWO; don’t get too excited) and set up house as few as sixty years ago. Not always, but it certainly wasn’t unheard of. Hell, we used to let eight year olds handle a mule and plow. We’ve changed as a culture, extending the concepts of childhood and adolescence far beyond where they’ve ever been before across many cultures.
We can argue, I guess, that our understanding of the human brain and how undeveloped the frontal lobe is, into the early twenties, is part of the reason for this change in attitude. But that’s a real chicken and the egg kind of thing.