Today, a trip down memory lane to revisit an until-recently lost classic of modern misogyny: Jay Hammers’ “The Age of Consent is Misandry.” The piece, originally published on Jay Hammers’Men’s Rights blog, inspired some heated discussions amongst MRAs online, with some harshly criticizing the piece as an apologia for pedophilia and others hailing it as a “politically incorrect” masterpiece. Stung by the criticism, Hammers ultimately took his blog down. But the piece has since been resurrected on the Human-Stupidity blog – another blog that seems rather unhealthily obsessed with the supposed injustice of men not being allowed to fuck underage girls.
Here are some of its highlights (that is, lowlights); the headlines are mine.
ALL ABOUT THE MENZ
The arbitrary age of consent is not about protecting women/girls. It is about valuing females and their virtue over males and their freedom. The intent of the laws is to stop older men from having sex with younger women and that is how it is enforced. It was never intended to stop younger men from having sex with older women.
MORE BETA BLUES
Age of consent laws are designed to punish beta males. A beta male in his 20s, unsuccessful with women his own age who are infused with a sense of feminist entitlement and deride all but the top alpha males who take interest in them, who seeks companionship with a younger, sexually mature female who desires him, should not go to prison for acting on that which is normal male sexuality.
FEMINISTS WHO SUPPORT AGE OF CONSENT LAWS ARE TREATING WOMEN LIKE CHILDREN
If we are to treat women as children then we should be consistent. Young women who have sex with older men are as much victims as women who have sex with a pick-up artist after meeting at a club. In both cases, feminists are angry because the woman has been “fooled” into having sex with a less than ideal mate in terms of value. …
This is what makes feminists angry and this is why age of consent exists still today, because it is assumed women are not mentally mature enough to give consent AND because older women want to limit men’s options to increase their own value in the sexual marketplace.
BUT WOMEN ARE CHILDREN, BASICALLY
Older women … are generally not of a much higher intelligence level than teenage girls. The big difference between the two is that older women are less attractive and that is what makes them so damn angry. …
Females generally do not significantly mature mentally past puberty so it should always be illegal for any woman to have sex or it should never be illegal for any woman to have sex. There is no arbitrary age where females suddenly become self-aware, realizing the consequences of their actions, and stop seeking out alpha males. Thus there must not be an arbitrary age of consent for sex.
A MODEST PROPOSAL
If anything, it should be illegal for women to have sex with men until men have been educated on the truths of women, Marriage 2.0, Game, feminism, and men’s rights.
Discuss?
@Nobinayamu Hilarious? Bizarre? Ridonkulous? xD WTFish?
or you can just use XD XD <— that was my own XD not "XD XD" … XD
@Kirby: My sister ran into the whole “religious issues with medical treatment” thing a handful of times during her residency. And we talked about it a lot, to the extent that she was able to discuss it. (No HIPPA violations over here)
Generally, the doctors err on the side of patient care and the child is their patient. They let the chips fall where they may.
But I fall on your side; children are not property. And, again, it goes back to how hard it is to make these sorts laws and discuss consent and autonomy. Extreme cases make bad laws.
Hey Ami, yeah the Lolita stuff was the Other Guy.
And, I’d totally forgotten about “ridonkulous,” thank you very much!
I’m gonna repost this, cause it got scrolled away, and the last sentence got cut off.
“kirbywarp | June 18, 2011 at 9:07 pm
@NWO:
Also this. This annoying habit of yours to ignore a conversation once you don’t have an answer to it, or you turn out to be wrong. I have the feeling that the only reason you responded to me was because Pecunium didn’t ask a question, so you had an easy response.
People will think no less of you if you openly say “you know? You might be right about this. I’m gonna go think about it.” Even MRAL was mature (=_=) enough to say such things. If you leave it hanging, nobody knows what you think, and in a real conversation its horribly rude to just walk off, even if you just say “you know what? I don’t want to talk about this any more.” Its infinitely worse when someone proves you wrong, you disappear, and a thread or two later you make the exact argument that was refuted before. If you want to actually converse with people, prove it. Otherwise don’t be surprised if we devolve into mocking you time and time again.”
@Nobinayamu:
Good to hear doctors take the initiative sometimes. But yeah, these things are tough. In some ways I think a globally recognized “ability to decide” age would be nice, because that would include consenting to nearly everything. You don’t necessarily have to worry about informed consent because even adults don’t always consent to everything while being informed. Its a matter of what information is available, not on how well a person can make decisions.
Nobinayamu
1) The increased average lifespan of human beings
2) The age of consent being 18, across the board and men regularly going to jail for having sex with women under 18 years of age.
3) The word mammography.
4) The risk of breast cancer from mammograms. MAMMOGRAMS.
5) The idea that most of the posters on this board have no objections to adult women having sex with young teenage boys.
6) The idea that feminists created the age of consent laws
7) The notion that feminists are preventing you from forming romantic relationships with 17 year old girls Your utter lack of reading comprehension. When I say that society has advanced in myriad ways since the days when we married of twelve year olds I didn’t say that it’s changed BECAUSE we’ve stopped marrying off twelve year olds. I mean, really, just dumb as a bag of hammers. Or did we decide rocks? Either way, dumb as shit.
9) The idea that we never married off twelve year olds: http://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/primary-sources/24
1) I’ve shown you just rattling off a few of our founding fathers/men of note even going back a thousand years that people lived as long or longer. The only reason any data shows otherwise is faulty fact gathering. Look at the average age of Europe 1940-45. War skewed the average, the war dead numbers are rounded in that number.
2) Don’t know what you mean.
3) Spearhafoc is the official grammar nazi.
4) MAMMOGRAMS use ionized radiation. Radiation is cumlative. Go run for a check up, Knock yourself out.
5) The law favors women. Feminism lobbys for even more lenient treatment of women to the point of totally disbanding all womens prisons. I’ve given that link before. Your lip service of “caring” means nothing as you garnish the favors granted by the State that feminists have lobbied for.
6) They did, feminism is quite old.
7) If a 16 year old girl who was a real beauty said to me, “Ya know slavey, I like the cut of your gib lets have sex.” Well being no fool I’d say you betcha. Feminists would jail me faster than my no doubt pathetic love making skills lasts.
9) That age of consent was for both boys/girls. Why is it girls were victims? The boys were lucky I guess.
“The only study you could possibly show me of any relevance would have to be.[…]”
The studies I provided and the conclusions they reached were plenty valid. I’ve asked you to give actual scientifically-based research data (from an unbiased source) to back up your claim, and so far you haven’t. You merely saying something doesn’t make it so. I’m not about to waste my time digging up studies to suit your arbitrary criteria while you sit around spouting absurd claims (though I’d be more willing to do so if you actually demonstrated an iota of capability at basic proper debating).
Nobinayamu, you forgot “the age of the earth”, but otherwise, a pretty representative list.
(too lazy to click back and find the comment where NWO outed himself as a YEC o_0 )
Ami, fun times meeting you and Brett today! MANBOOBZ 4 EVAR!
7) If a 16 year old girl who was a real beauty said to me, “Ya know slavey, I like the cut of your gib lets have sex.” Well being no fool I’d say you betcha. Feminists would jail me faster than my no doubt pathetic love making skills lasts.
So much for true love. xD I guess that Sailor Moon Power of Love phase didn’t take xD Too bad… the heart wand was a nice touch XD
@KristinMH I posted about it on the other thread (“Today, Boston, Tomorrow Toronto!”) :3
NWO, first of all it’s “ionizing radiation”, not “ionized radiation”. Second, STFU about mammograms.
All medical tests and treatments, pretty much without exception, carry risks. Anything from mild, self-limiting symptoms (swelling at vaccine injection sites) to miscarriage (1 in 200 for amniocentesis) to death (estimates range wildly, but a not insignificant number of people are killed by anaesthetics during surgery). Doctors still perform these things because the benefit or potential benefit outweighs the risk of harm, you dolt.
But you probably think vaccines are a plot to inject us all with tracking devices and fluoridation is a Communist mind control plot. It’s like talking to a fucking wall.
sarahejones…
“I said SPECIFICALLY there is a power dynamic at play in a relationship between partners of disparate ages DUE TO THE AGE DIFFERENCE. Stop taking my words out of context. Otherwise I’ll have to agree that you’re simply incapable of understanding what “power dynamic” really means.”
I believe by power dynamic you mean one person holding an advantage in some way giving them power.
Again, men don’t think of sex as a means to an end. It is a pleasurable act shared between a man and a woman. If you believe in the acquiring or use of sex as a power dynamic that is your way of thinking, not a mans. So again I ask. Have women have been indocrinated into that way of thinking or do they naturally think of sex as a means to an end? Is sex a means to gain power in a relationship to women?
“If a 16 year old girl who was a real beauty said to me, “Ya know slavey, I like the cut of your gib [sic] lets [sic] have sex.” Well being no fool I’d say you betcha.”
So … it’s been a while since you’ve talked to a 16-year-old who wasn’t a sailor, eh, Subby?
Anyway, since when is doing something that you know is illegal not foolish? (Assuming, since you seem to, that in your state the age of consent is over 16, I mean.)
No, NWO, men don’t think of sex as a means to an end. (Well, some of them do, “men” being a very large category and all, but let’s go with this for the moment.) Men think of sex as an end in itself.
…an end which some of them may achieve by unethical means.
The worry is not so much that older men will use sex to control teenagers, but that older men (people, actually) will control teenagers to get sex.
The sex itself may be simple pleasure (or it may not; manipulation around sex often leads to coercion in sex); the deception and manipulation leading up to the sex, however, is not.
NWO,
1) Being stupid doesn’t make you right. The fact that some people lived to be very old a long time ago does not in anyway prove that ALL people lived to be old. It does not negate the fact that, on average, the life span of humans has increased with time. David and other posters have provided links to credible, researched evidence that supports these facts. All you’ve done is told me how long Benjamin Franklin lived. You’re wrong.
2) Well, you’ve conveniently forgotten. Because you started out by saying that men go to jail for having sex with women under the age of eighteen. When it was shown that in the U.S., the age of consent is 18 in very few states and in most states is 16 or 17 and as young as 14, in a few, you refused to acknowledge your error. In fact, you kept posting scenarios in which, as a result of feminism, you would be jailed for having sex with a 17 year old. Once again, feminism is not preventing you from seeking a romantic relationship with 17 year olds. You’re in Texas a lot -as you keep reminding us- and the age of consent there is 17. Knock your self out.
3) When you a make up a word because you’re too dumb and or lazy to know the right terminology, grammar is not the issue.
4) You’re an idiot who doesn’t know fuck all about how medical radiation works. I don’t need a mammogram yet. As I am at low risk for developing breast cancer it will be another 5 years at least before my doctor recommends that I have mammograms once a year. Again, papr1ka and other posters did a bang up job presenting peer-reviewed evidence as to why you are once again wrong and I will not re-hash it.
5) You didn’t say that the law favored women. Nice back-pedaling. You said that the posters on this board would vilify you if you suggested that women should be punished harshly for having sex with under-age boys and that they would support punitive child support measures for any pregnancies that resulted from such abuse. No posters vilified you for agreeing with me, and no posters have said that I am wrong and that women should not be punished for having sex with under age boys. You are, once again, wrong.
6) The age of consent laws have changed over time but have been on the books prior to women being able to vote and in some cases even own property. You are full of shit. And once again, dead, fucking, wrong.
7) Oh, now it’s 16. First it was 18. Then it was all about how you’d be all about an un-indoctrinated 17 year old, and now you’ve moved the bar to 16. Well, hey NWO: the age of consent is 16 in many, many states. So once again, knock yourself out. As long as it’s consensual, you won’t go to jail. As for your pathetic love making skills, try having sex with women who aren’t hookers. We all perform better with partners who are actually interested.
8) NWO, I didn’t say that we exclusively married off twelve year old girls. Once again, you misinterpret because you can’t read. I said we used to marry off twelve year olds. Of course the laws pertained to both boys and girls. And it was deplorable. All children who were married off barely past pubescence were victims of our formally backwards thinking. And my stance on young boys not being abused is well-documented.
You’re a fucking moron.
You could not tell that difference at the spearhead or a voice for men so I stand by that statement and add they really hate women in general too.
Why don’t they just call themselves what they really are, not MRA’s but anti-feminists. Then their “activism” makes sense.
Good point, Amiangel. NWO, what happened to the pure, pure love? And, you know, the love making? All of a sudden it’s casual sex with a 16 year old you’ve just met?
Hmmm…. 8 and ) makes a sunglasses smiley face. I did not realize that.
@Nobinayamu the funny part is that I posted that info in one of the first 5 comments on this thread I think (or first 10) xD
NWO, you aren’t all men. You’re barely even one man.
I’m going to tell you a real-life story, actually, one in which a power dynamic (shocker!) ACTUALLY EXISTED.
I was 15. He was 21 or 22. Not even 30, but definitely in a different place in life than I was.
He told me that he didn’t like sharing a bed, so I should sleep on the floor. Wood floor with no carpet. Because I was 15, I was a sucker, and thought sacrificing for your man meant your love was particularly true, so I curled up on the floor next to his bed like a dog.
But if you don’t see the power dynamic in that, here’s one that’s directly about sex:
One time, we were having sex, and he couldn’t come, and he just kept going, and it was really starting to hurt me. I asked him to stop, and he started to get angry. His anger didn’t mean the same thing as my anger. If I was angry, I could yell at him. If he was angry, he could yell at me–and he could refuse to give me a ride home from his house miles away from mine, and he could get me in trouble for having sex, and he could cut himself off emotionally at a time when I thought I was in True Love. So his anger had more power than mine, so I let him fuck me even though it hurt like hell, and I even faked that I liked it, just to keep him placated.
THAT’S a power dynamic in sex, yep.
@KristinMH
“But you probably think vaccines are a plot to inject us all with tracking devices and fluoridation is a Communist mind control plot. It’s like talking to a fucking wall.’
http://fluoridealert.org/
Perhaps you should learn a little more about the effects of flouride before spouting nonsense.
Actually maybe you can’t. Flouride makes you stupid. Also flouride allows aluminum oxide to easily bond with brain cells to further stupify you. Amongst a myriad of other good stuff. So drink up ladies Big Daddy says it’s good for ya!
I think the 8) face is awesome! 😀 It’s like it’s the extra COOL point :3
*starts slow clap for Nobinayamu*
@NWO:
Thank you for actually responding and saying what you mean to Nobinayamu. This is all I ask of you, really. If you want to exceed expectations, start incorperating evidence into your arguments and don’t flat-out ignore evidence presented by others. But this is a healthy first step, as long as you keep it up.
@KristinMH didn’t we just HAVE this discussion about flouride in drinks and overdose today at the meet up? XDDD
@Ami Angel – I know, I missed it.