Today, a trip down memory lane to revisit an until-recently lost classic of modern misogyny: Jay Hammers’ “The Age of Consent is Misandry.” The piece, originally published on Jay Hammers’Men’s Rights blog, inspired some heated discussions amongst MRAs online, with some harshly criticizing the piece as an apologia for pedophilia and others hailing it as a “politically incorrect” masterpiece. Stung by the criticism, Hammers ultimately took his blog down. But the piece has since been resurrected on the Human-Stupidity blog – another blog that seems rather unhealthily obsessed with the supposed injustice of men not being allowed to fuck underage girls.
Here are some of its highlights (that is, lowlights); the headlines are mine.
ALL ABOUT THE MENZ
The arbitrary age of consent is not about protecting women/girls. It is about valuing females and their virtue over males and their freedom. The intent of the laws is to stop older men from having sex with younger women and that is how it is enforced. It was never intended to stop younger men from having sex with older women.
MORE BETA BLUES
Age of consent laws are designed to punish beta males. A beta male in his 20s, unsuccessful with women his own age who are infused with a sense of feminist entitlement and deride all but the top alpha males who take interest in them, who seeks companionship with a younger, sexually mature female who desires him, should not go to prison for acting on that which is normal male sexuality.
FEMINISTS WHO SUPPORT AGE OF CONSENT LAWS ARE TREATING WOMEN LIKE CHILDREN
If we are to treat women as children then we should be consistent. Young women who have sex with older men are as much victims as women who have sex with a pick-up artist after meeting at a club. In both cases, feminists are angry because the woman has been “fooled” into having sex with a less than ideal mate in terms of value. …
This is what makes feminists angry and this is why age of consent exists still today, because it is assumed women are not mentally mature enough to give consent AND because older women want to limit men’s options to increase their own value in the sexual marketplace.
BUT WOMEN ARE CHILDREN, BASICALLY
Older women … are generally not of a much higher intelligence level than teenage girls. The big difference between the two is that older women are less attractive and that is what makes them so damn angry. …
Females generally do not significantly mature mentally past puberty so it should always be illegal for any woman to have sex or it should never be illegal for any woman to have sex. There is no arbitrary age where females suddenly become self-aware, realizing the consequences of their actions, and stop seeking out alpha males. Thus there must not be an arbitrary age of consent for sex.
A MODEST PROPOSAL
If anything, it should be illegal for women to have sex with men until men have been educated on the truths of women, Marriage 2.0, Game, feminism, and men’s rights.
Discuss?
Sebastian Steele’s head is too small for his body. Or rather, his body is too muscular for the size of his head. Not attractive at all, at least to me.
I’ll bet Jay Hammer is one of those guys who would get very very upset if you were to imply he was a creep for hitting on teenage girls.
Age of consent laws are meant to protect children, and even he recognizes that. He realizes that in order to invalidate the law he needs to show that children don’t need special protection. He does this by arguing that women do not mature past puberty and are therefore the same as children (Where does that leave teenage boys?) Misogyny is this argument’s keystone.
Also, there are numerous studies about children’s maturation past puberty. These studies support not only age of consent laws, but emancipation laws, juvenile delinquency laws, drinking laws, smoking laws, and a host of other laws that limit children’s rights. The age of all of these laws will always be arbitrary, because bright lines are always arbitrary. The bright line is arbitrary but easier to implement and enforce, and ultimately fairer for that reason. Most studies show that the brain does not actually fully mature until 25, but 25 is obviously a socially impractical line.
Is a 16 year old girl mature enough to love a 16 year old boy?
Is a 16 year old boy mature enough to love a 16 year old girl?
Is a 16 year old girl mature enough to love a 30 year old man?
Is a 30 year old man mature enough to love a 16 year old girl?
Does the State have the power to dictate who can love whom?
Will the State incarcerate a 16 year old girl’s lover if he is 30 years old?
(TW for rape apologism) Wow, I just looked through some of the other things on the Human Stupidity Blog, and the WHOLE THING is about rape apologism, like saying rape is equivalent to being “force-fed disgusting items” or “dunked in a toilet.” Oh, and that rape ain’t all that bad because rape victims can still get married. Talk about a complete lack of empathy. It’s nauseating.
Slavey, is a 3 year old boy mature enough to have sex with a 30 year old woman? Obviously the line has to be somewhere. Also it is not about love, they are free to love who they wish. It is about sex. The state has a right to limit who has sex with who only so far as it has a compelling interest to do so. In this case the compelling interest is its protection of children.
As far as 16 year olds and 16 year olds, they are not mature enough for sex, but as both are underage no crime is committed. Neither is old enough and therefore neither is abusing power.
Sandy, don’t make the mistake of engaging with NWOSub as if he’s arguing in good faith. He’s not. He’ll take anything you say and twist it around so it means the opposite of what you said. He’ll make counterfactual claims and ignore requests for evidence. He’ll contradict himself within the space of 20 minutes. And he will lie through his teeth as long as it’s convenient for him. He’s one of the most dishonest trolls around.
“Females generally do not significantly mature mentally past puberty so it should always be illegal for any woman to have sex or it should never be illegal for any woman to have sex. There is no arbitrary age where females suddenly become self-aware, realizing the consequences of their actions, and stop seeking out alpha males. Thus there must not be an arbitrary age of consent for sex.”
Dear god. There are people who actually believe that?
I do agree that the age of consent is SOMEWHAT arbitrary, because individuals mature at different rates. Should it be fifteen? Sixteen? Seventeen? I don’t really know.
But I do think having that having an age of consent is important. Why? Because people DO learn and mature as they get older. I think it’s much easier for a 15-year-old of either gender to be manipulated and taken advantage of by a 30-year-old of either gender then it is for a 30-year-old to take advantage of a 30-year-old*.
*I am aware that I’m making huge generalizations here. But I think they hold true enough.
@Sandy…Beautiful rebuttal, comparing a 3 year to the same level of sexual maturity as a 16 year old.
How is it not about love? If two people, a 30 year old man and a 16 year old woman say they love each other, why is it untrue?
As always you revert to the feminist power dynamic.
If a year 30 old man loves a 16 year old woman, he’s not thinking about some foolish power dynamic. Theres no alterior motive. Once again we see the true nature of the feminist hate movement. A man’s love is evil and controlling, it’s all about power. Is that the way women think about love? Is it all about power to you?
I guess Sally is right. The point is not that a 3 year old is the same as a 16 year old, the point is a 3 year old obviously is not. It is obviously not ok to have sex with a 3 year old. A 16 year old is less clear. The line needs to be somewhere.
It is not about love because it is not illegal for a 30 year old and a 16 year old to say they love each other. They just cannot have sex.
Actually in Canada and a lot of US states, 16 is the age of consent (for both male and female obv xD) and/or there are age gap exceptions, so kids in HS aren’t going to be arrested for having younger b/fs or g/fs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America#United_States
age of consent 16 (31): Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Georgia, Hawaii, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia
Interestingly, some areas still have old sodomy laws on the books that haven’t been scrapped or altered (like Canada, even tho it’s never enforced and most police dun even know about it xD ) so the age of consent for anal sex (for either gender) is 18, while all other sex acts is 16 xD
I generally do think 16 or 17 y/os are mature enuf to understand sex (it would be helpful if we as a society weren’t so scared of honestly talking about it) and to control their own bodies. This includes other non-sexual things involving one’s own body as well. But I’m open to arguments otherwise. :] But I think our society needs to sit down and figure out when we think people are old enuf to be able to have informed consent about things. -_-;; I generally think our various age laws are ridic and hilariously inconsistent. xD 16 is old enuf to drive, but not to vote. And when you can vote, you can’t drink or smoke. Or you can smoke, but you can’t drink. Or you can drink, but you can’t smoke. Back when Canada’s age of consent was 14, I always found it ridic that we don’t allow ppl to view child porn, but you can sleep w/ the child. I guess just w/ the lights off -_-;;
As for abovepants. I’ve heard the “women never mature past 13 so therefore all girls should be game!” thing -_-;; Nice weaselly way to say “I wanna F kids, but I dun want my son to have sex until he’s 18” -_-;;; I’m shocked that those supporters dun hold me up as an example of proof tho xDDD It’d be hilarious XD
Speaking of people loving each other as opposed to having sex with each other… I had a friend who is my age who in his mid 20s started dating a girl who was 16. Their plan was to wait until she was 18 to actually have sex, due to the age of consent laws in their state. Funnily enough, this didn’t work out too well. As far as I know they did actually manage to refrain from having sex. But she went off to college, hooked up with some boys her own age, and dumped him.
@Plymouth the feminist conspiracy got to her! :O
NWO, your own ephebophilia is fairly obvious. So perhaps you can answer a question for me. Assume for a moment that the age of consent laws are not a feminist conspiracy designed to keep you from obtaining an ideal, fifteen year old, virgin bride whose father knows you’re the best choice for her, and whose lack of experience assures your insecure ass that she will never leave you.
Just for shits and giggles, assume that the age of consent laws have changed and evolved as our society/culture has changed and involved. Assume that our increased longevity and greater understanding of human brain development has allowed us to reconsider that teenagers should be married and parents even though they are physically capable. Assume, just for a moment, that age of consent laws also reflect the preferences of parents who are legally responsible, in most jurisdictions, for their off spring until the age of eighteen.
Now tell me: what is the appreciable difference between a sixteen year old girl who has yet to finish high school and an eighteen year old?
“But I do think having that having an age of consent is important. Why? Because people DO learn and mature as they get older. I think it’s much easier for a 15-year-old of either gender to be manipulated and taken advantage of by a 30-year-old of either gender then it is for a 30-year-old to take advantage of a 30-year-old*.
*I am aware that I’m making huge generalizations here. But I think they hold true enough.”
In the interest of making huge generalizations, I want to mention that the ease of manipulation is one of the major reasons I am a fan of age of consent laws. When you compare a 30 year old and 16 year old, the 30 year old (regardless of gender) is more likely to have institutional power. Maybe most 16 year olds are more savvy than I was at that age, but 30 year olds were part of that group I labeled “adult” which made them authority figures. I’m sure some of my teachers were in that age range, and friends of my parents.
That authority (assumed or concrete) could make a sexual relationship dangerously unfair. I was be more willing to trust an adult to tell me what was right and wrong. I assume current 16 year olds might share some of that susceptibility to manipulation.
NWOS
In answer to your questions:
Sometimes
Sometimes
Sometimes
Sometimes
Yes -states quite clearly have done, and still do; whilst they can’t legislate people’s feelings, they can sure as hell make expressions of those feelings punishable by death or incarceration, or allow a culture of impunity in which loving across an arbitrary racial or religious divide has publically injurious or fatal consequences.
I don’t know about the US, but I guess it varies from state to state; here in the UK/Europe – no, as the age of consent is usually 16, and “statutory rape” doesn’t apply.
Just in case ppl got the wrong impression btw, the above example about the ridiculosity of the inconsistancy of Canada’s laws when the age of consent was 14 was not that I thought child porn laws should go down to 14 to match -_- (I realize this is a sensitive and possibly personal or triggering topic for some, so I’m just noting that : )
@Nobinayamu
Your first assumption, that of longevity, is incorrect. You can google anything you like but those numbers will be false. This can easily be seen, Ben Franklin, 83, A Jackson, 78, G. Washington 67, pheumonia at yorktown, T Jefferson, 83, ect. all without the miracle of modern medicine. People live shorter lives today than long ago. You’ve been lied to.
As to your question…”what is the appreciable difference between a sixteen year old girl who has yet to finish high school and an eighteen year old?”
The answer is nothing at all, of course. The same difference that there is between a 30 year old man and a 16 year old woman. It’s just a number.
As I said, if a 30 year old man loves a woman who is 16; the thought of power over her never crosses his mind. In fact, He loves her and wanting any harm to come to her is the furthest thing from his mind. As per your feminist doctrine a man’s love is reviled and must be viewed in terms of power and control.
@Plymouth…” But she went off to college, hooked up with some boys her own age, and dumped him.”
You forgot to mention she could do so much better than that loser. How nice of you to treat this man, who was willing to “wait for her,” as a disposable piece of garbage to be “dumped.” I wonder how “he” felt about be dumped? I guess he was disappointed at losing the power and control he had over her. Or maybe he was devastated, buy really, who cares. Certainly not you. I guess you could’ve said she was pretty cold to “dump” him after he waited, but nah. He’s just a man.
Hatred in, Hatred out.
Ami: I actually support the age of consent for sex being lower than the age of consent to star in porn, because porn has all the issues of emotional readiness that exist in sex, plus bonus other issues (the risk of slut-shaming, reinforcing the transactional model of sexuality, the way it limits the porn star’s career options afterward, etc.). Not to mention the risk that teenagers would be pressured into porn to earn money for their parents and not be good at saying “no”…
But yeah. I had my first sexual fantasies at 7 or 8 (yes, really) and I was not fucking ready for sex at 13. I figure most people aren’t.
NWOSlave, do you accept that abusive relationships exist?
Also, yes, people are allowed to leave relationships. Duh?
See? Subby just LOVES making things up. He knows for a damn fact that the last thing on the mind of a 30-year-old man who’s pursuing a 16-year-old girl is control, power and domination. How does he know that? DON’T FUCKING ASK, asking Subby for evidence for his generalizations is PURE OPPRESSION AND HATRED DAMMIT. It’s true because he said it’s true, that’s all you bitches need to know.
He’s nothing but a rank liar.
More lying by Subby. Observe his utter contempt for what we commonly recognize as empirically verifiable facts and reality.
NWO, I realize that you don’t understand much about how numbers, trends, statistics, etc., work. Let me help you out: on average, longevity in the human species. My grandmother is 90 years old and could easily live to be 95 or 100. Knock wood. One of our dearest family friends and a surrogate grandfather to me and my sisters recently celebrated his 100th birthday. Is this standard? Is this average? Outliers, even outliers like Ben Franklin are not standard. Otherwise men like you wouldn’t point out that men, on average, have shorter life spans than women and use this as spurious support to your claims of female privilege. Right? I mean, if I personally know a man who is 100 then clearly men live longer than women because one of my grandmothers died at 63.
Moving on – we aren’t talking about love. We’re talking about age of consent which is lower than 18 in most states across the U.S. and lower than 16, in several. We are discussing the laws, which are made on a state by state, basis around the age at which a young person (age of consent laws apply to boys as well as girls) can consent to sexual activity. The laws can be arbitrary, true. But since the vast majority of them were put in place long before feminism, it’s a complete stretch of your fevered persecution complex to believe that feminists have anything to do with them.
If a thirty year old man’s love for a 14 or 15 or 16 year old girl (differing by state, of course) is so “pure” then he should have no problem waiting for her to reach the age of consent before beginning a sexual relationship with her.
So, again, what is the appreciable difference a sixteen year old and an eighteen year old?
And if the 30 + year old men who seek to form romantic relationships with teenagers are so noble of intent then what exactly is the problem with the age of consent?
@SallyStrange…Show me YOUR evidence that a mans love is about power and control. Because that is exactly what you’re saying.
If there’s no difference between a sixteen year old and an eighteen year old, then a 30 year old man should have no problem waiting 2 years.
Also, that sentence should read “on average, longevity in the human species has increased.”