As we’ve seen again and again on this blog, misogynists love to talk about how much better men are than women when it comes to things like math, logic, and scientific thinking generally. Unfortunately, their posts and comments online – filled with breathtaking failures of logic, absurd unsourced assertions and magical thinking — do not seem to bear out this hypothesis. I would compare the scientific thinking of most manosphere misogynists with that of the creationists, but frankly that would be insulting to creationists.
A case in point: a graph – provenance unknown – posted in a recent MGTOWforums discussion of marriage. The standard line amongst the lady haters is that marriage is on the way out , because men are “waking up” to the evils of marriage in an allegedly feminist state and deciding to, well, go their own way. The reality: while the marriage rate has been falling fairly steadily for the last quarter-century or so, for a variety of reasons, most people do marry at some point in their lives; it would be silly to assume that a trend over the course of several decades heralds the death of a social institution that has lasted (and has had many previous ups and downs) for millennia.
Of course, that’s not the way the MGTOWers in question see it. Their proof that marriage is doomed – doomed, I say – lies in this little graph which charts with mathematical precision the exact date range within which marriage will vanish forever from this good earth:
Now, there are many problems with this little graph. For one thing, what happens AFTER the projected marriage rate goes to zero? Does the marriage rate bounce like a rubber ball back into the positive realm? Or does it go below zero, with unmarried couples divorcing one another – just in case?
Second, this chart is based on a tiny number of data points – a mere 25 year sliver of the millennia-long history of divorce. If you go back a mere century and a half – see the chart below, taken from a paper you can find here — you’ll see that the marriage rate doesn’t conform to any neat mathematical formula; it jumps up and down, affected not only by slow-moving cultural changes but by events in the real world – look at the gigantic spike in marriage after World War II.
But the main issue here is that there is simply no way you can come up with a neat equation to predict the future of marriage because THE WORLD DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. History isn’t math. It cannot be predicted in advance, and any attempt to do so — especially one based on a tiny sliver of data — is doomed to failure. (Well, certain aspects of reality can be predicted — like when Halley’s comet will next return (assuming it’s not eaten by a giant space monster we haven’t discovered yet). Orbits can be calculated with mathematical precision; social trends cannot.)
To illustrate the dangers of extrapolation, let’s consider the little chart below, prepared by a helpful assistant (who happens to have access to a scanner). The chart provides some interesting data on the age of a hypothetical cat named “Fluffy” and her projected life expectancy. As you can see, Fluffy was hypothetically born in 2001, making her ten years old today, with her age increasing by one every year. (Just pretend that the numbers line up properly; my assistant, despite her many other charms, is not big on precision, and may have been drunk when she prepared this chart.) Based on this data (which show Fluffy’s age increasing by one every year), we could project that by the time the next century rolls around our dear little cat will be 99 years old.
If projecting the future were as easy as drawing little lines on graphs, the world would be a much simpler, and much less interesting, place to live. Most of us realize this. MRAs and MGTOWers, not so much.
I’m amused by how going after me he is lately xD It used to be he pretended to ignore what I said cuz of how I write xD … then he started to say I wasn’t understandable… XD and now.. apparently it doesn’t matter how much my writing hurts his eyes… he can’t let go… XDDDD
As ppl have said, Ami is infectious >:3
(plus he tried to use a smiley last night! 😀 )
Last question I answer Ami, since you won’t answer mine. Schools are for learning the three Rs so to speak. Whatever shop classes, sciences, ect. Thats it. Any class that teaches pro/anti abortion pro/anti gay pro/anti any social or moral issue is off limits. Now. Do you agree?
NWO clearly doesn’t recognize anything other than western style marriages. Bet his doors would blow clean off to learn that “western” marriage at one time had very little do with romantic love, and that it was more of the business arrangement (consolidation of land and family wealth). Which is what he sort of thinks it is, but different.
How many think he had a truly spectacular divorce?
Do you think a strong person has the right to rob and kill a weak person, with no consequences?
Will anyone field my question @NWOslave | June 13, 2011 at 8:50 pm
You won’t clarify your question o_O I can’t answer when I dunno what you mean by “morals”
” Any class that teaches pro/anti abortion pro/anti gay pro/anti any social or moral issue is off limits. ”
What are you these classes?
Do you consider teaching storybooks, or books in English involving homosexual relationships morals?
NWO:
So you don’t want schools to teach children not to be racist? Or is anti-racism okay to teach in your book. If it is, why not sexist or genderist? Why is pro/anti gay not cool, but pro/anti racism cool? And if not… erugh… then you don’t know what you are talking about when you say teaching morality…
*what are these classes xD
No, I don’t agree. That’s dumb.
NWO – Since schools of more than about 20 kids will generally have gay students, it’s impossible to be neutral on such an issue. Telling a gay kid “we have no official stance on whether it’s okay that you exist or not” is, in fact, a very strongly anti-gay act.
Also, you really need to get over your obsession with asking and answering questions. We’re just trying to determine what you believe so that we can more clearly explain our beliefs to you–we’re not trying to rack up some sort of Question Trade Deficit.
@Holly,
Though if we were keeping track, I think the evil feminist bankers will be knocking on NWO’s door very soon.
Oh, damn. He IS arguing that being gay is immoral. ><
Also, Slavey, I had 4 years of abstinence-only sex ed in high school. I dunno why you think the State is pro-abortion. Remember when the government almost shut down because people wanted to cut Planned Parenthood's funding?
I know you’re a communist spearboy, thats a given.
Ami you know exactly what I mean.
The only classes are reading, writing, math, hard sciences and shop, (woodworking, machining and such).
Now. Do you agree?
@Molly:
Its worth pointing out that abstinence-only education is absolutely proven to be far worse than any other sex ed. Basically, kids will have sex, but with abstience only they won’t know what contraception is, and therefore won’t use it. Then they won’t understand abortion and won’t use that, and you end up with a massive rise in teenage pregnancy.
NWO:
No, I do not agree. Morality is not separate from life. You learn morality wherever you go. And you still haven’t answered my question about whether you think tolerence of other races should be taught in school, or whether even that is “up to the individual (a child influenced by their parents).”
That’s about what I got. We didn’t have any “Gay” classes or “Abortion” classes. Why are you wanting to know if we support what already exists, Slavey? 😛
Well Kirby, you’re a communist.
@Kirby, I know, but Slavey doesn’t seem to understand that abstinence-only sex ed classes already were being taught to AN ENTIRE GENERATION. He seems to think it’s gay sex ed all the time!
NWO – If you don’t want people to be controlled by (dun dun DUNNN) The State, then you’re going to need history, social studies, and civics classes in there too. Arts and literature help give kids some context and tools for understanding all this as well.
What you’re describing, ironically, is the perfect schooling for creating uncriticial citizens who would only be fit to work and not to ask questions.
How about you Molly? Do you agree with what I said @NWOslave | June 13, 2011 at 8:57 pm?
I love how we’ve gotten from marriage to divorce to bankers and debt to gay rights and incest to morality to schools to what NWO finally settles on deciding is the most important question of the decade, which is whether we should ONLY teach “reading, writing, math, hard sciences and shop.” What are all the little girls to do while the boys are off cutting wood and building furniture?
Nah, I don’t. Four years of abstinence-only sex ed left me woefully unprepared. Let’s have Gay Abortion classes!
Ami you know exactly what I mean.
The only classes are reading, writing, math, hard sciences and shop, (woodworking, machining and such).
Now. Do you agree?
XD
I never know EXACTLY what you mean xD You go out of your way to be inexact it’s hilarious xDD
What do you teach in reading? What if somebody is homophobic? Or a kid is gay? What about bullying? Do you just avoid romances ALL together in reading? xD
Do I agree that we should teach reading, writing, math, hard sciences (does that include history? o_O ) and shop without knowing what you entail in those? xD No. XDDDD
Who agrees on a curricula they can’t see? XD
What do you think they teach in schools RIGHT NOW? Do you think there’s a subject for “homosexuality”? xD Explain to us where you think the queer agenda or other morality is being taught in subjects that it couldn’t be taught in in those subjects you just listed?
XDDDDD I’m so amused XD
“I love how we’ve gotten from marriage to divorce to bankers and debt to gay rights and incest to morality to schools to what NWO finally settles on deciding is the most important question of the decade, which is whether we should ONLY teach ‘reading, writing, math, hard sciences and shop’.”
This is why I get sucked into reading these threads but don’t comment. Arguing about gender vs. sex with my housemates should be a snap after this!
kirbywarp, do you need the State to teach you tolerance? I don’t.