As we’ve seen again and again on this blog, misogynists love to talk about how much better men are than women when it comes to things like math, logic, and scientific thinking generally. Unfortunately, their posts and comments online – filled with breathtaking failures of logic, absurd unsourced assertions and magical thinking — do not seem to bear out this hypothesis. I would compare the scientific thinking of most manosphere misogynists with that of the creationists, but frankly that would be insulting to creationists.
A case in point: a graph – provenance unknown – posted in a recent MGTOWforums discussion of marriage. The standard line amongst the lady haters is that marriage is on the way out , because men are “waking up” to the evils of marriage in an allegedly feminist state and deciding to, well, go their own way. The reality: while the marriage rate has been falling fairly steadily for the last quarter-century or so, for a variety of reasons, most people do marry at some point in their lives; it would be silly to assume that a trend over the course of several decades heralds the death of a social institution that has lasted (and has had many previous ups and downs) for millennia.
Of course, that’s not the way the MGTOWers in question see it. Their proof that marriage is doomed – doomed, I say – lies in this little graph which charts with mathematical precision the exact date range within which marriage will vanish forever from this good earth:
Now, there are many problems with this little graph. For one thing, what happens AFTER the projected marriage rate goes to zero? Does the marriage rate bounce like a rubber ball back into the positive realm? Or does it go below zero, with unmarried couples divorcing one another – just in case?
Second, this chart is based on a tiny number of data points – a mere 25 year sliver of the millennia-long history of divorce. If you go back a mere century and a half – see the chart below, taken from a paper you can find here — you’ll see that the marriage rate doesn’t conform to any neat mathematical formula; it jumps up and down, affected not only by slow-moving cultural changes but by events in the real world – look at the gigantic spike in marriage after World War II.
But the main issue here is that there is simply no way you can come up with a neat equation to predict the future of marriage because THE WORLD DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. History isn’t math. It cannot be predicted in advance, and any attempt to do so — especially one based on a tiny sliver of data — is doomed to failure. (Well, certain aspects of reality can be predicted — like when Halley’s comet will next return (assuming it’s not eaten by a giant space monster we haven’t discovered yet). Orbits can be calculated with mathematical precision; social trends cannot.)
To illustrate the dangers of extrapolation, let’s consider the little chart below, prepared by a helpful assistant (who happens to have access to a scanner). The chart provides some interesting data on the age of a hypothetical cat named “Fluffy” and her projected life expectancy. As you can see, Fluffy was hypothetically born in 2001, making her ten years old today, with her age increasing by one every year. (Just pretend that the numbers line up properly; my assistant, despite her many other charms, is not big on precision, and may have been drunk when she prepared this chart.) Based on this data (which show Fluffy’s age increasing by one every year), we could project that by the time the next century rolls around our dear little cat will be 99 years old.
If projecting the future were as easy as drawing little lines on graphs, the world would be a much simpler, and much less interesting, place to live. Most of us realize this. MRAs and MGTOWers, not so much.
NWO – I’m in a serious long-term relationship with a man who is also in a serious long-term relationship with another women. This is all above-board and agreed to, I’m friends with the other woman and see her often, and the three of us will travel and do things together.
“Polyamory” is literally “many loves”–it’s having multiple serious relationships simultaneously.
Wait… so everybody here that’s queer is queer only b/c the state made us so? xD We draw lots or something and it’s like “hey you drew G, you’re gonna be gay!” “ooh you drew trans AND genderqueer!” xD
@Molly Ren and yet it doesn’t stop him from being an expert or formulating opinions xD
@NWO:
“Hell, on the new UN childrens passport theres a line for mothers name, a line for childs name, and a line simply called other. Dad is just an other.”
Ummm… source please?
@Victoria von Syrus:
I’ve been going through the same line of thinking, re incest. Once you realize you can’t discriminated based on squick, its kinda difficult to find a reason against marriage for consenting adults.
And like I said earlier, NWO’s idea of marriage is one woman in the kitchen, one man at work. I supposed they’d have to have one son, one daughter, and one dog as well. And live in suburbia. And be part of a show called “Leave it to Beaver.”
I got the jackpot, yo. Pansexual, genderqueer, prefers open relationships, fat AND female! 😀
Back from my walk. Beautiful rainbow outside. Anyway,
I am too.
Social things like the role of government are hard to talk about in objective terms but Slavey kept arguing about “place woman” even when he was definitely, 100% incorrect. It’s sort of sad.
And I see he’s given up on apostrophes as well.
I’d be fine if it were a Mad Men-esque wasteland, minus the sexism and racism of course. Cool clothes and Christina Hendricks; where do I sign up?
@Molly Ren
Better not let MRAL here that last bit… But in an ideal world, you might actually have the jackpot. *slight little tiny bit of envy*
Whats the point of a source Kirby, I gave you a real time debt clock. All of you laughed it off and cried, More Government! The 176 thousand dollar debt per person to the bank that the State agreed you will pay didn’t even phase you.
Aw, thanks, Kirby. Whichever bit you’re a little envious of, I sometimes feel like they don’t always go together! 😉
NWO:
So.. because we didn’t think one source proves your point, you don’t need another one to back up your assertion of a different fact? Great logic there.
It’s not owed to “the bank,” it’s to a variety of individuals and corporations, a lot of them in China.
Anyway, NWO, this isn’t an all-or-nothing deal. I agree that the government spends and borrows too much money–but I still think it should exist. I wish we had a smaller (and more sensible) government, but not that the government would disappear altogether.
@Molly:
So I’m a straight male myself. I wouldn’t mind having more open sexual preferences, since I’m kinda a lovable guy, and being able to be lovable with more people seems like a nice idea. Course, more relationships could mean more drama, so only a little bit of envy. 😛
“All of you laughed it off and cried, More Government!”
No, we were trying to figure out how that connected too… oh, hell, I can’t keep track anymore. I think it was whether or not the gas tax covered road repair. We’re still talking about marriage. I’m still not sure how marriage applies to the overall debt.
No Holly, that debt is only to the federal reserve. The deficit is seperate and has nothing to do with what the State borrows from the Fed. Not one cent of your taxes pays off the deficit.
Well, no one pays the deficit, that’s just a line on the budget. But the debt is paid (or rather, not, but like I said, I don’t love our current government, just think we need something government-like in our lives) to foreign and domestic investors, most of whom are not Rothschilds.
…weren’t we talking about LGBTQ stuff a second ago, and marriage before that? I’m getting whiplash.
It goes to turn our kids (or us) into LGBTTQQ2IABPVSNZARUEW<LDFPRO!*#R&AF(ALXD ppl… and sometimes animals… and plants… but not minerals… yet
Ami, do you think the State should teach any social values to children?
So the chart seems to be showing its largest down trend since the chart began and its challenging its lower support line for the first time in its history.
Seems Manboobz doesn’t understand charts.
Yeah but then I asked him just to lay out his worldview, and he gave a vague non-answer, then obfuscated like woah and somehow we came here xD I blame Kirby.
(yet another idea for a T-Shirt “I blame Kirbywarp”)
@Holly I’ve got whiplash too. : / This better pay off next time I get in an argument about marriage!
@Kirby It’s not a magic bullet. 😉 It’s just another way to do stuff. I’m still learning how to talk about what I need, how trying to get everyone’s schedule to overlap can be like herding cats, etc.
@Ami, I always liked LGBTWTFBBQ
NWO – To answer for Ami, public schools (which are hardly some pure expression of the monolithic State, which is a totally nonexistent and implausible concept, particularly in the US) should indeed teach things like sharing, respect for others, waiting your turn, speaking politely, being nonviolent, and using critical thinking, as well as understanding and participating in civics.
@NWO elaborate xD
@NWO:
Mind reading this and tell me exactly how the government is being controled by the system that it controls? Thanks.
@Holly:
NWO’s views are easy enough. LGBTQ are unnatural entities created by the state (through brainwashing) and also pedophiles. Marriage is awesome, but only if its one man and one woman marriage, and only if the participants are not allowed to leave each other once they get hitched.
See, that wasn’t too bad, was it?
Yes, of course they should.
@NWO what’s the “state” neways? You use that word so interchangably xD You consider like… me the state xD