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Fun with charts, or why MGTOWers don't understand marriage trends

As we’ve seen again and again on this blog, misogynists love to talk about how much better men are than women when it comes to things like math, logic, and scientific thinking generally. Unfortunately, their posts and comments online – filled with breathtaking failures of logic, absurd unsourced assertions and magical thinking — do not seem to bear out this hypothesis.  I would compare the scientific thinking of most manosphere misogynists with that of the creationists, but frankly that would be insulting to creationists.

A case in point: a graph – provenance unknown – posted in a recent MGTOWforums discussion of marriage. The standard line amongst the lady haters is that marriage is on the way out , because men are “waking up” to the evils of marriage in an allegedly feminist state and deciding to, well, go their own way. The reality: while the marriage rate has been falling fairly steadily for the last quarter-century or so, for a variety of reasons, most people do marry at some point in their lives; it would be silly to assume that a trend over the course of several decades heralds the death of a social institution that has lasted (and has had many previous ups and downs) for millennia.

Of course, that’s not the way the MGTOWers in question see it. Their proof that marriage is doomed – doomed, I say – lies in this little graph which charts with mathematical precision the exact date range within which marriage will vanish forever from this good earth:

That's not right.

Now, there are many problems with this little graph. For one thing, what happens AFTER the projected marriage rate goes to zero? Does the marriage rate bounce like a rubber ball back into the positive realm? Or does it go below zero, with unmarried couples divorcing one another – just in case?

Second, this chart is based on a tiny number of data points – a mere 25 year sliver of the millennia-long history of divorce. If you go back a mere century and a half – see the chart below, taken from a paper you can find here — you’ll see that the marriage rate doesn’t conform to any neat mathematical formula; it jumps up and down, affected not only by slow-moving cultural changes but by events in the real world – look at the gigantic spike in marriage after World War II.

But the main issue here is that there is simply no way you can come up with a neat equation to predict the future of marriage because THE WORLD DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. History isn’t math. It cannot be predicted in advance, and any attempt to do so — especially one based on a tiny sliver of data — is doomed to failure. (Well, certain aspects of reality can be predicted — like when Halley’s comet will next return (assuming it’s not eaten by a giant space monster we haven’t discovered yet). Orbits can be calculated with mathematical precision; social trends cannot.)

To illustrate the dangers of extrapolation, let’s consider the little chart below, prepared by a helpful assistant (who happens to have access to a scanner). The chart provides some interesting data on the age of a hypothetical cat named “Fluffy” and her projected life expectancy. As you can see, Fluffy was hypothetically born in 2001, making her ten years old today, with her age increasing by one every year. (Just pretend that the numbers line up properly; my assistant, despite her many other charms, is not big on precision, and may have been drunk when she prepared this chart.) Based on this data (which show Fluffy’s age increasing by one every year), we could project that by the time the next century rolls around our dear little cat will be 99 years old.

If projecting the future were as easy as drawing little lines on graphs, the world would be a much simpler, and much less interesting, place to live. Most of us realize this. MRAs and MGTOWers, not so much.

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kirbywarp
kirbywarp
13 years ago

Well yes, Victoria Von Syrus, you COULD try facts, but NWO seems immune. His conviction is so strong that when his opinion differs from reality, its reality that has it wrong.

One problem I’ve found with looking up divorce statistics is that the normal ones I find have marriages per 1000 and divorces per 1000, not divorces per 1000 married. So, the percentage obtained from those numbers don’t scale with the marriage rate. But if your source has marriage as a percentage of married, all is well.

NWOslave
NWOslave
13 years ago

Yea Kirby, I’d say $176,447.00 per citizen indebted to the bankers is as you say doing pretty bad. LOL. Oh and by the way the “roads” someone said are built is paid for by your gasoline tax which has nothing to do with Big Daddy, (except for hugh profit). You’d think all that tax I’d have a personal road everywhere.

I told you before I could careless about your social and physical construct/reconstruct LGBTQ, (whens the the next letter due for addition?). They could do what they wanted, it just wouldn’t be indoctrinated by the State. Abortion would be non-existant. Who the hell would kill their own child other than a world indoctrinated into believing it was something good? Planned Parenthood, what a funny name.

Ami Angelwings
13 years ago

XD

This is why I want him to lay it out…

But okay, so now we have “even less ppl would be queer b/c the government wouldn’t be forcing people to be gay and trans (so THAT’S what that injection when I was a kid was for!)” and “nobody would abort b/c the government wouldn’t be brainwashing mothers to want abortions”

xDDDDD

Victoria von Syrus
Victoria von Syrus
13 years ago

Kirbywarp, try divorcerate.org.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
13 years ago

$.18 a gallon does not pay for a road. Just the average road’s salt needs a year exceed that.

Abortion would exist-women sometimes have no interest in having babies NWOaf. I know, SHOCKING that you have no idea what any woman wants.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
13 years ago

NWO:

Erm.. alright, let me put it this way. Bankers do not own money. Goverments do not get money from banks, it is in fact the opposite. National debt is not debt to bankers, its debt to other countries. How the flying fudge can you think that when a government needs money, it takes a loan out from the bank, when the bank gets the money it loans out from the government?

Also, you are right, in a world where survival is rare, people have tons of kids so that some of them would survive. The whole fantastic benefit of modern day society is that women don’t have to pump out twenty kids to ensure one survives. Why the hell would you want to live in a world where every day is a struggle to exist?

Spearhafoc
13 years ago

Oh and by the way the “roads” someone said are built is paid for by your gasoline tax which has nothing to do with Big Daddy, (except for hugh profit)

Hey, Hugh Profit is a great guy! What did Hugh ever do to you?

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
13 years ago

He ate my babies!

Ami Angelwings
13 years ago

@Spearhafoc wins a prize! xD (to fit this current theme, I guess a can of refried beans and some duct tape)

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
13 years ago

Victoria Von Syrus:

All is right with the world then. Carry on, you impeccable statistic-gatherer you. 😀

@NWO:

Also I just noticed this, but “social and physical construct/reconstruct” ??? Do you know what those words mean? What is a physical construct as it relates to a social construct? People are physically LGBTQ? Isn’t that.. you know.. right?

Molly Ren
13 years ago

“I told you before I could careless about your social and physical construct/reconstruct LGBTQ, (whens the the next letter due for addition?).”

I told you before I could care less about your social and physical construct/reconstruct LGBTQ. (When’s the the next letter due for addition?)

Spearhafoc
13 years ago

Really, it should be “couldn’t care less.”

Here’s David Mitchell to explain:

Ami Angelwings
13 years ago

I should give him the longest acronym of that I’ve seen: lgbttiqq2sa

xD if he thinks his world is scary now… THE GAY AGENDA IS EXPANDINGGGGGG XDDD

Molly Ren
13 years ago

Spearhafoc, I figured I’d missed something after I hit “Post Comment”. *turns in English degree*

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
13 years ago

Oh god, I love love love love LOVE David Mitchell, Spearhafoc. And That Mitchell and Webb Look? Most brilliant end to a series I’ve ever seen! <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

And fanboying over.

Molly Ren
13 years ago

I always liked “QLTBG” (pronounced “quilt bag”).

tofu nutloaf
tofu nutloaf
13 years ago

All I can think of when someone wants to abolish all government is, who the fuck is supposed to plow the roads in the winter then? Because what I imagine when I imagine no government is being stuck in my house for a week because of the damn roads.

NWOslave
NWOslave
13 years ago

PosterLiz gallons per day 375 million x .18 = 67,500,000 per day x 365 days = 24,637,500,000 per year. Sounds like a pretty tidy sum to me. That of course doesn’t count fuel oil, nautral gas, ect, ect.

NWOslave
NWOslave
13 years ago

Molly Ren…spearboy is the official grammar nazi. Know your place woman.

Molly Ren
13 years ago

All gays, bis, lesbians, and transpeople still aren’t pedophiles, though. Kinda like how all men aren’t rapists. Or all women aren’t cut out to have children.

Holly Pervocracy
13 years ago

I’m absolutely sure something is wrong with NWO’s math there, because that would make gas prices bigger than the entire US GDP (14 trillion).

Holly Pervocracy
13 years ago

Gas taxes. Whoops.

Spearhafoc
13 years ago

Molly Ren…spearboy is the official grammar nazi. Know your place woman.

You need a comma between “place” and “woman”. Also, “Nazi” should be capitalised.

NWOslave
NWOslave
13 years ago

What the hell, I’ll toss out a question. All I want is a yes or no.

Does the State have any right to dictate a “yay” or a “nay” on any social issue what-so-evahhhhh.

Molly Ren
13 years ago

Thanks, Spearhafoc, but I’ll just be the LGBT Nazi from now on. 😉