Apparently we feminists simply can’t understand the Men’s Rights Movement, because
feminist ideology is still stuck in the 19th century concept that women are second class citizens when objectively they are in a better position than men. … The[y] just cannot grasp that in modern western society men are second class citizens.
Luckily, the good fellows at the Men’s Rights subreddit on Reddit are here to put us straight.
Oh, and while they’re at it, they would also like to explain to us at great length why the whole Slutwalk thing is so silly. I mean, telling women to not dress like sluts if they don’t want to get raped is just good common sense! And obviously dudes have a much greater understanding of the topic of rape and personal safety in general than silly ladies with their silly lady brains and their silly tendency to get drunk on silly lady drinks.
Because Reddit Men’s Rights is not completely dominated by retrograde MRA misogynists, there are actually some decent comments mixed in with all the patronizing nonsense. Enjoy?
Commonly given advice on how not to be raped is a fairy tale for modern ladies, it says don’t go into the woods alone and you won’t get eaten by wolves.
And while it might be true that women can take steps to keep from being raped if we never leave the house, or always go out chaperoned, and spend years and years worried about our personal safety, but at it’s most successful the advice does nothing to prevent rape, it only shifts that rape onto someone else who was perhaps not as virtuous and who forgot to take out their car keys before walking into a dark parking lot.
If all we get for a lifetime of behaving the way we are told we should is the certainty that someone just like us is being attacked because of the traits we have in common and that at any time we could forget magical step #72, *become* that person, and be blamed because we forgot, then the advice, no matter how well meaning the deliverer, is not working.
What’s interesting to me MRAL, is that you rage about the perceived injustices of your life and expect us to empathize with you, and if you had and reading comprehension at all you would see that people have tried. But when we call you on your language (re: your rape statements) and try to explain why this is an issue, you flip out and bitch about us not empathizing with you, and something bizarre about ‘feminists expect empathy’ or some such bullshit. MRAL, empathy is not a feminist thing. It’s a HUMAN thing.
I’ve lurked here for a very long time (since before David moved the site over), and one of the things that sticks out about you is your inability to empathize beyond your own personal “Ohh, gawd fucked me overr because I’m (insert your standard whining here).” You seem incapable and unwilling to put yourself in other people’s shoes. For example: I was an active athlete, promising musician, and good student when I became ill and disabled six years ago (when I was 20). Fucking shitty as hell to go from swimming 4,000 meters a day to being barely able to get out of bed. I walk with a cane a lot of the time. People stare. I’ll be l ike this for the rest of my life. Am I cursing gawd for my situation? No. Does it piss me off? A lot of the time, yes. But I still live my life instead of making up Byzantine and arbitrary social rankings (your fucked up Greek system) and stewing in anger and hatred. My life as I knew it basically ended when I was 20, I lost my music scholarship and had to move back home with my parents. There are days I can barely move. All that’s wrong with you is a slightly off eye (I saw the photo), and a possible chemical imbalance (well, and your entitled attitude). I will spend my entire life in crippling pain, but I get up every morning. You have potential, you are intelligent and going to a good school, I think I read that you had made an appointment to see a counselor or something? That’s great. I’ll be honest, I really don’t like you. I pretty much can’t stand you. But I wish you well, and wish you never have to experience sexual assault or rape. So when you’re on this board, maybe you should read/listen more, instead of bitching about what’s wrong with YOU.
Hide and Seek – I like the ‘fairy tale’ comparison. Not only does this ‘how to not get raped’ advice often blame the victim, it usually [i]does not work[/i]. Mansplaining at its best, I guess. (We need a more all-purpose ‘spouting off about subjects you really don’t understand as well as you think’ term, though, since this advice doesn’t come exclusively from men.)
“Dunning your Krueger”
MRAL, “way back when”, African-Americans were *literally enslaved*. There is no comparison. At all. To being you.
By making that comparison in such a flippant and cavalier way you are trivializing one of the worst human rights atrocities in history. Do you get that? And do you get how completely uncalled for it is?
It reminds me of an SNL ****PARODY**** of “My Super Sweet Sixteen” where something was going wrong with the Sweet 16 party arrangements and the kid has a total meltdown in which she screams “this is literally worse than the holocaust”.
I emphasized “parody” so that ppl don’t start riffing on this like it was, you know, actually true. Because that kind of dumbass shit happens around here.
Mansplaining doesn’t require ignorance on the part of the ‘splainer, though that does make it more egregious. The key to Mansplaining is the assumption that your audience is ignorant, and in need of your wisdom, because they are female and you are male (though many of the MRA’s who come to this site condescend to mansplain to manginas like myself).
A perfect example is from the previous thread, with NWOSlave. His “advice” having been shown to be relevant to only a very small subset of rapes and not useful in any case, he then asked if he should give the opposite advice, which he considered to be a bad idea. The option to not give “advice” at all didn’t even occur to him.
Seraph – good point! Although I’d argue the two tend to go hand-in-hand; a man (or woman) who feels that, for example, women haven’t really [i]thought[/i] much about rape or rape prevention and therefore could really benefit
My comment posted before I was finished. 🙁 Grr.
Seraph – good point! Although I’d argue the two tend to go hand-in-hand; a man (or woman) who feels that, for example, women haven’t really [i]thought[/i] much about rape or rape prevention and therefore could really benefit from his/her off-the-cuff advice…exposes his/her ignorance as well as arrogance.
T4T-Kirby and most of the rest of us understand that MRAL’s problems are very serious and real to him. But we have no reason to continue to indulge his kvetchfests when he starts making claims that insult those who have suffered equally or more.
You have been MIA for a while and for all I know are just being your usual disingenuous self or maybe you missed his belittlement, dismissal and disrespect for those who suffered from everything from public gropings to rape. At some point enough is enough and Kirby (and he is not the only one) has reached that limit.
So either go away or make an effort to see why someone is so angry with him before telling that person their ire is unwarranted.
And, may I add, domo arigato, Mr. Roboto.
Elizabeth
Oh I get the anger aspect very well. I just dont get why the need to keep addressing him. “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.”
And think about it for a minute, if the guy is really mentally ill(which seems really possible), what does someone gain by belittling him back? Now back to me, I wasnt MIA I was just watching the show or should I say rerun.
Things I would rather have done than be raped
cut off a toe or finger
be bald for the rest of my life
give birth to sextuplets
have a deformed eye
be a short man
be a little person
pay child support
be able to only see my kids once a week
have people literally spit on me(not MRAL perceived spitting) every day for the rest of my life
CB
I never really got into that song. Though it does have some lyrics that are pretty appropriate for many on here.
I am the modren man
(Secret, secret I’ve got a secret)
Who hides behind a mask
(Secret, secret, I’ve got a secret)
So no one else can see
(Secret, secret, I’ve got a secret)
My true identity
If the guy was really mentally ill, he has received all the sympathy people can muster. And the only thing that seems to work with him is the lack of sympathy.
I wish people would forget that damn song. There was so much more to Styx than that.
Im not saying sympathize, Im saying ignore. I just find it ridiculous that someone needs to rant on someone who is so clearly messed up, what could you possibly gain from that? Hey, you can always direct some more my way, afterall, Im not mentally ill, just somewhat hard headed. 😉
Hugo Schwyzer the fuckhead’s new misandrist post is up:
http://hugoschwyzer.net/2011/06/13/feminism-porn-and-slutwalk-part-one-of-a-conversation-with-meghan-murphy/#more-3982
Looks to me he is saying he wants men to be willing to listen to what women have to say and not to tell women what to think/hear/say/do or otherwise control them. And he says that men need to stop other men from acting in manners that are sexist even when around their friends-which is bad how?
He does sound like he is lecturing but then again, the guy IS a college professor.
T4T then say what you mean and not pussy foot around.
Longtime lurker cannot resist posting, sorry if its troll feeding
I am a woman who misses the definition of dwarfism by about half an inch, am in perfect health and proportion, just short.
My height is often a physical issue in living in a world for the average sized – eg driving cars, reaching things, even cooking in an average designed kitchen, looking in a mirror in a public bathroom, shopping in the supermarket where I often have to ask for help, working at an office standard workplace, hell even getting my child out of the hospital bassinet was awkward. I am often assumed to be a schoolchild and have occasionally been perved on because of my childlike stature. Even petite clothing requires alterations which is expensive and time consuming. I am often IDd despite being past 30, often assumed to be a ‘stupid wee lassie’ and you should see the shenanigans I have to go through to change a lightbulb or resent the fusebox!
And do you know what – its a bit irritating but sure as hell doesnt define me! I am not ‘fucked by god’ despite the daily inconveniences, its a trivial matter compared to all the real suffering, injustice and hardship in the world. I have a good professional job, postgraduate education and enough self confidence for any situation. If someone has a problem with my height or makes assumptions because of it that is their issue and I dont have to internalise it.
You’ll say its easy for me, its less of a problem because I am female. My brother, about half a head shorter than you is an athelete who competes internationally, (and no, hes not a jockey) is renowned in his academic field and gets more female attention than is good for him.
You would look and feel much taller without that chip on your shoulder. The self perpetuating pity fest you are creating every thread is not going to help you. Go to a psychologist, get some help and perspective on processing it all and start enjoying your astonishingly privelaged western life – perhaps even do something worthwhile with it, to help those without your advantages
OK, I will never engage with this again.
But could we have a mansplainer of the week award?
I did
Are we still talking about MRAL’s height? You are of average fucking height. There is nothing wrong with your height, except in your mind. And while we’re on the subject of your mind, as a person with a psychiatric diagnosis I say this: Get help. You need it. You are clearly not connected to reality. I am out of patience with your neurosis. (I’m also 5’1″, and I think you should get the fuck over yourself about being short).
MRAL,
I don’t understand what you find objectionable about that post from Hugo. I mean, there are one or two sentences you could quote-mine as examples of his “cringing apologetic masculinity” or something. But I read the post and I see a man daring to disagree with a woman, and in fact to defend pornography and sex work from feminist criticism. I know you think he’s some kind of cringing toady, but don’t you think he’s actually speaking the Men’s Rights position in this case?
@Titfortat
Basically what Elizabeth said at 12:09. MRAL has had plenty of sympathy from everybody here, and many have shared truly painful experiences in an attempt to give him some perspective. But instead of taking that perspective, or at least realizing that his words are very painful to a bunch of people, he continues to assert his right to be as asshole-ish as he wants in bemoaning his pain. I didn’t ignore him because he was actually showing some sincerity, and I didn’t ignore him because its better to try to stop hurtful behavior than allow it to continue.
I understand fully that he may be mentally incapable of sympathizing with others, or realizing how much damage he’s doing. And as I’ve said, in other circumstances I would fully take that into account. But you don’t allow a mentally unstable person to beat up the people around him just because he’s incapable of doing otherwise. His need to be understood stops the moment he insists on trampling over everyone around him.
But you don’t allow a mentally unstable person to beat up the people around him just because he’s incapable of doing otherwise.(Kirby)
Ah the irony. I remember a while back when I pointed out how some people on this site were bullies and that the way they expressed themselves was violent(not you). Interestingly enough I was ridiculed and told, “Tat, its just words on a screen” get over it. I get what youre saying but can mral really beat people up on here? Also, if you really think he could be mentally unstable why even run the risk of continuing his bad behaviour by addressing him? Im sure if you ignore him long enough he will go away. Or is it good to have him around to mock because of his egregious and entertaining behaviour, hmmm?