Apparently we feminists simply can’t understand the Men’s Rights Movement, because
feminist ideology is still stuck in the 19th century concept that women are second class citizens when objectively they are in a better position than men. … The[y] just cannot grasp that in modern western society men are second class citizens.
Luckily, the good fellows at the Men’s Rights subreddit on Reddit are here to put us straight.
Oh, and while they’re at it, they would also like to explain to us at great length why the whole Slutwalk thing is so silly. I mean, telling women to not dress like sluts if they don’t want to get raped is just good common sense! And obviously dudes have a much greater understanding of the topic of rape and personal safety in general than silly ladies with their silly lady brains and their silly tendency to get drunk on silly lady drinks.
Because Reddit Men’s Rights is not completely dominated by retrograde MRA misogynists, there are actually some decent comments mixed in with all the patronizing nonsense. Enjoy?
MRAL:
Alright, if we’re gonna be friends, this:
“No, God has fucked me a different way”
needs to stop. You are not being raped by some all powerful deity because you were born shorter than average, or with one eye slightly larger than the other. Many people have told you about their disabilities on this very blog, all of which are objectively worse than yours, yet they do not make this comparison. It is triggering to people who’ve actually experienced rape, and considering your actual “deformity,” it is like whining about a paper cut to people with missing limbs.
But we’re getting somewhere. So again, you’ve taken a test for possible body dismorphic disorder; how did that go?
And are you considering seeing a therapist about it?
Also, Bee, you can’t just look at Harvard and Yale. Those, along with the other Ivies, Stanford, Williams, etc. are THE best of the best. That’s where the driven, upper upper class alpha fucks go, and you’re right, there isn’t a gender disparity that high up. But for most private universities there’s still a pretty big gap.
Boston University is about 60% girls. That’s a bit lopsided but BC next door has 55% girls, and that’s pretty standard for private universities, again, excluding the upper upper class Ivies. Look it up if you want proof.
Look, kirby, I just feel violated. It’s like God intervened and stopped me from becoming a whole person. Sorry if this is triggering, but I’d much rather be literally raped, right now, in the ass or anywhere else, than continue the rest of my life as an incomplete human being. Call it a severe inferiority complex, whatever, but it sucks really bad.
I haven’t seen a therapist or been tested yet- I scheduled a confidential meeting at school late this month. Until then I’m in my hometown.
MRAL:
Aaaand now we’re back to square one. Good to know you’ve schedule a meeting, and best of luck, but you’ve just turned back into a loathesom human being yet again. Have you even an ounce of awareness, tact, or civility in you? Do you have even the slightest sense of compassion for other people, or the ability to symapthize with what other people explicitely tell you is an intense problem? Say you’re sorry all you want, but continue to talk about rape in such a cavalier manner in the presence of people who have litteraly been raped and I will cast my vote for David to ban you permenantly from these boards. You may think your slightly large and dsyfunctional eye is the worst thing life could possibly do to you, but shut the fuck up about it here. I’m done with you, unless you want to apologize (and its up to the rest of the people here whether they except it). You are despicable.
MRAL, no you do not. Living through rape is not comparable to being a few inches shorter than the average male. The fact that you can honestly compare the two is both disturbing and disgusting. Do not belittle the experiences of survivors like that.
One thing I still don’t understand is why it’s okay to tell me that my problems are no big deal, that I can deal with it, that I’m a drama queen, but make any analogy to rape or even think about questioning the problems of rape victims and I’m suddenly a terrible person. I’m just telling the truth. Rape ends, at least.
Because, objectively, your problems are NOT a big deal. Under other circumstances I would be more patient with you, considering that you likely have a mental block about your appearance. But your rights to be treated well do not supercede others, and though you’ve been asked to stop over and over again, you ignore everyone thinking that you are the most important person on this thread. That ends now.
The fact that you can honestly say that just proves that you are ignorant and possess no empathy. Rape does not simply “end.” Yes the act itself may end, but victims of rape and sexual assault deal with the emotional, mental, and physical trauma for months, years, and even decades after the fact. You have no clue what “problems” rape victims have so don’t you dare try to lecture those of us here who do.
Years after being raped and sexually assaulted by someone who I thought loved me I still have nightmares. I still get counseling. I still live every day with what he did to me. I don’t wish that kind of violation or suffering on anyone. Not even ignorant, self-centered, bigots like you MRAL. Your problems may be a big deal to you, but in the larger scheme of things being shorter than average is one of least awful things that can happen to a person. Get over yourself.
Well, they’re a big deal for me. No one else has to deal with the eye thing and so I don’t think anyone is qualified to be making fun of me in regards to that. As for thinking I’m the most important person in this thread, I never spam or push the topic of my problems when people aren’t interested. Occasionally it moves to discussing some topics I bring up (heightism, my disabilities, etc.) but many other people go off topic as well, and these comments threads are very open.
I point Clio to my post above kirby’s and ask why she is entitled to empathy based on her problems, but I am not.
MRAL:
We are not talking about your problems, we are talking about your discription of them, and your refusal to be sensitive to other people’s pain. Go ahead, describe the pain you feel with your eye in all its gory detail. But don’t compare it to rape, and by now even a thick-headed dunce like you should know why. Re-read Clio’s post again, if you have to, especially the first paragraph.
Woo, I am up waaay too late! What a lovely thread! A thread about the Men’s Rights Reddit, hmmm… very nice… sleepy now… nighty night, y’all… :3
Nighty Night, Doctress Julia, don’t let the MRAs bite. 😉
Fuck this shit and the constant insults I get on here. As always, there’s a double standard, as is fairly common in fymynyst bullshit. I’m going to bed.
To offer 2 cents in the way of mediation:
MRAL, I’m not going to speak for you, but tell me if this describes your feelings:
My life is a sick cosmic joke. There is nothing I can do to improve the situation. There is no one I feel safe talking to. I want something extreme to happen because at least it would finish this constant feeling of despair, anger, and frustration.
–Is this what it sounds like in your head? Because that’s what my head sounded like for many years.
I have a great deal of sympathy for you, but kirby is right–however extreme your feelings are, you can NOT compare your experiences to those of rape victims. And it is not OK to say you would rather be raped than continue life as it is. That kind of thinking does two bad things: it ignores other people’s suffering and it will convince you that engaging in dangerous behaviors will give you some kind of freedom from the constant emotional torment. It won’t . Things improved for me when I met a nice guy who was calm and kind and talked to me. That was the 5’6 boyfriend. It’s really not all about height.
… Fuck you too, MRAL.
@Clio:
I didn’t get a chance to say this before, but *comforting hugs.* Nobody should have to deal with that crap, and if they do, no one should have to sit through MRAL’s bull. Thanks for trying to reach him, though. It isn’t easy to share shit like that…
@Kirby: Thanks *hugs back*. Some small part of me still hopes he can be reached since he seems to have moments of lucidity on these threads *long time lurker reveals herself*. However any sympathy I have evaporates when that kind of willful ignorance and insensitivity presents itself.
@MRAL: I am not “entitled” to sympathy and neither are you. As you proved so comprehensively, people are free to feel sympathetic towards others or not as they choose. Posters on this blog have been sympathetic and supportive to you for a long time. However what upsets people is when you take that sympathy and support and throw it back in their faces. Or when you refuse to accept that others are going through real and legitimate pain too.
“The average height of Presidents and CEOs is fucking 6’0-6’1, for fuck’s sake”
Taking you at your word, I guess they’re mostly men then (6’0 for a woman is pretty tall). Kinda disproves the reddit quote about men being discriminated against, huh?
Well, to be fair, if you start looking at magazines like Men’s Health, or Cosmo with their ‘hunk’ pictures, or the various media ads, etc., it’s starting to look like every guy should be 6 feet tall or over, with blue eyes, perfect hair, chiseled jaw, and the body of an underwear model. And if you’re not, you might as well not even bother with women.
True, women still have it worse in this department, but the guys are catching up…
ROTFLMAO!!! That is EXACTLY the response that came to mind when I first read MRAL’s comment that you quoted.
@MRAL: My father is a short Dutchman who has always felt insecure about his height, so he moved to France, where he’s of average height. If really therapy doesn’t work for you, it’s something you might consider. There are plenty of countries where the average height is shorter than in the U.S.: Asian countries like China or Japan, Southern European countries… Plus, you get to learn to speak a new language fluently and you get to enrich yourself culturally. It could be a pretty cool experience, especially since you’re a white American.
And believe me, you don’t want to get raped: it wouldn’t make your current problems go away, just add much, much worse ones, which could derail your education and make your relationships with women much, much worse. Not to mention that, if you ever spoke out about it, you would really start feeling other people’s contempt (men who get raped don’t get a whole lot of sympathy, unfortunately).
I’m done with you, unless you want to apologize (and its up to the rest of the people here whether they except it). You are despicable(Kirby)
Wow, he’s despicable? I imagine the young man may have some mental illness(probably depression). I would have thought a reasonably intelligent person such as yourself would recognize that and not demand more from them than is obviously possible or know enough not to engage them. MRA my ass, hurting, angry young man is more like it.
Fooling Yourself (the Angry Young Man)
You see the world through your cynical eyes
You’re a troubled young man I can tell
You’ve got it all in the palm of your hand
But your hand’s wet with sweat and your head needs a rest
You’re foolin’ yourself if you don’t believe it
You’re kidding yourself if you don’t believe it
How can you be such an angry young man
When your future looks quite bright to me
How can there be such a sinister plan
That could hide such a lamb, such a caring young man
You’re foolin’ yourself if you don’t believe it
You’re kidding yourself if you don’t believe it
Get up, get back on your feet
You’re the one they can’t beat and you know it
Come on, let’s see what you’ve got
Just take your best shot and don’t blow it
You’re foolin’ yourself if you don’t believe it
You’re kidding yourself if you don’t believe it
Get up, get back on your feet
You’re the one they can’t beat and you know it
Come on, let’s see what you’ve got
Just take your best shot and don’t blow it.
So, the Men’s Rights subreddit seems to be (from the first ten or so comments I read, before I decided to stop lest I roll my eyes too hard and hurt myself somehow) seems pretty equally divided between, “Well, women suffer sometimes TOO (although not as much as men, of course) and some of them actually pay attention to some men’s concerns (although still gold medalling in the Whining Olympics) so we should really tone down the rhetoric and focus on specific issues” and “Feminists are evil and want to DESTROY MEN!”
Both are somewhat misogynistic, but the prevalence of the former viewpoint (even if it’s only on Reddit) is…slightly heartening?
And then I clicked the second link. Why did I do that? Ugh. I would rant, but I feel myself getting tl;dr, so; ugh. Just, ugh.
MRAL,
I would read your blog if you started one, legit. As for a topic–what is there in your life that you *don’t* feel angry and miserable about. Don’t get me wrong, I think our society is too quick to judge people for expressing doubt or anger. I’m fascinated by people frankly discussing their pain and frustration, so I would read your blog even if it was all about heightism. But I have to admit it would be more fun if you mixed it up with posts about programming or linguistics or sailing or stuffed animals or whatever makes you happy in your life.
Oh, one more thing about heightism:
What I’m about to say is a chain of conclusions each based on like study, so take this with a grain of salt, but did you know that how much money you make as an adult has more to do with how tall you were in high school than how tall you are as an adult? In other words, it’s not (just) adult society discriminating. Something happens to tall *kids* that prepares them to succeed, or something happens to short *kids* that it holding them back.
Nobody’s sure yet what that is, but we have some ideas. Here’s one. The more clubs and social groups you’re in in high school, the more money you end up making as an adult. Apparently being in those clubs teaches social skills, looks good on resumes, and/or helps you network or apply to college. Now here’s the weird part: tall kids in high school join more clubs than shorter kids.
So in your life today you look around at a party and see a bunch of tall dudes living it up. They have the friends, they have the women, they have the invites, whatever. Here’s what you’ve got to remember: they got all that by applying a skill that they learned in childhood. If you can figure out the trick, their skills will work for you too. Will you be on a perfectly level playing field against a taller man in every walk of life? No. But then, being shorter has its advantages too XD.