Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the most odious misogynist bullshit I have seen thus far on the topic of the Slutwalks: a post on The Third Edge of the Sword, a blog that seems to go out of its way to be offensive and “edgy,” that takes victim blaming to a whole new level. Here’s the basic, er, argument of the post, which the author has put in giant pink letters so we won’t miss it:
Every woman marching in the Edmonton Slut Walk is publicly declaring herself a slut. This means every woman there desires sex with any and all partners. Any sexual activity you initiate with them comes with implied consent. They cannot say no, and if they do understand all their ‘no’s mean yes. They are all asking for it. They want it bad. Now. From you. Go get ’em!
Some other highlights:
[I]f you … dress slutty, men are going to stare at you. We’re going to catcall. We are going to tell you all sorts of sexual things we want to do to your body. And if you dress slutty and wave your ass in our face, we will do them. The organizers of this event are not oblivious to this point: what they want is a fake sexual revolution. They want to be able to impersonate sluts without actually being sluts, and that’s unacceptable. If you don’t want to be treated as a piece of meat, don’t marinate and grill yourself and sit perched on a piece of garlic toast. You dress slutty, you show off the goods, you try to get a reaction, you will get one. Hint: it’s not always going to be the one you want. …
The “reaction” he has in mind is rape. By calling rape a “reaction” instead of what it is — a criminal assault on someone, an act of sexual violence, a violation — he of course is attempting to switch the blame to the victim. He spells out his “logic” in more detail:
[W]hen you impersonate a slut we don’t fine you, and we don’t throw you in jail. There’s really only one punishment for dressing like a streetwalker when you aren’t one: you do have to endure the occasional rape. You should really suffer it in silence. Accept the character flaw within you that caused this, and move on. Police and court resources are already busy enough with real criminals: like actual rapists who do nasty things to their niece or the homeless native chick passed out under the bridge, or a conservatively dressed urban professional walking to her car, or a girl out jogging in a track suit. To equate the act of actually violating and raping one of these people with having sex with a girl who’s every square millimetre of public persona screams anybody who wants to can screw me right now is ridiculous.
Once again, this brand of misogyny leads to some conclusions that are pretty misandrist – namely, the notion that men are at heart rapists who can’t control their violent urges:
If you go out on the street in an outfit that would make Britney Spears feel uncomfortable, you do so knowing that your ultimate aim is to make men want you. Well, they want you now. Congrats. Oh, wait, you mean you didn’t understand what that implied? That in the great Bell curve of sexual congress you’ve just pushed everybody on the right-hand side of the -2 std devs line past that imaginary barrier that says “there is no power in the universe powerful enough to stop me from sliding my finger inside your panties”? I call bullshit. You do know. But you want to be a virginal slut, to dress in ways that makes men helpless to their urges but still leaves you fully in restrictive control.
The blogger concludes by arguing that the Slutwalkers are all “lying bitches” because they dress like they wasn’t to be raped, but do not actually want to be raped. Then he makes this lovely suggestion:
If your wife is one of them, I’m very very sorry. Maybe a good rape might make her a little more manageable around the house.
Now this post is an atmittedly extreme example of a misogynistic response to the Slutwalks. But the basic “logic” of this blogger’s would-be argument is essentially identical to that of many MRA and other “manosphere” pieces I’ve seen on the subject, the main difference between them being that this guy embraces the logical conclusion of his argument — that Slutwalkers deserve to be raped — while the MRAs who make essentially the same argument (and fling the same sorts of insults at the Slutwalkers) make a show of saying that they don’t really think the Slutwalkers “deserve” it. And maybe they’ve convinced themselves that this caveat means something . But in that case the extreme reaction that manosphere misogynists have had to the Slutwalks – the insults thrown at the Slutwalkers, the “jokey” references to rape, the prurient sneering – makes little sense. If you argue that women are “asking for it” when they dress like “sluts,” you’re essentially saying they deserve it. You’re making the same argument this guy is making, but pretending you aren’t.
NOTE: The graphic above is taken from the official web site for the Edmonton SlutWalk 2011, which took place a week ago. Here are some pictures of the march.
Funny how the vast majority of comments come from the weaker, “fringe” members of the MRM, who are few and far between (thus David’s need to “cherry-pick”, as opposed to shooting fish in a barrel).
@Pam: Don’t you be tempting your workmates with pants, young lady. I know you’re out to ensnare them in your horrible plans for divorce and sperm-stealing with your heels that make your dress appear shorter! You sly woman, you.
Honestly, I don’t know why there’s so much emphasis in conservative Christianity on making women look and act a certain way, lest they tempt men, but not so much an emphasis on seeing all God’s sons and daughters in a respectful and loving manner, no matter what their appearance is.
I would say the majority of feminists I’ve spoken to feel that people are responsible for their own actions regardless of what genitalia they have – I don’t remember anyone saying that all men are rapists, or that men cannot help their animal instincts or whathaveyou. I wish there were a little more equal blame for spreading that particular lie on conservative folk who insist that women’s attire controls men’s minds.
@Ami Angelwings: Absolutely. Most of my clients were terrified to speak to officers, lest they be ridiculed or rejected. A few of them expressed concerns about racism and being seen as a more-deserving target. “Slut” or no “slut”, no one deserves to be assaulted (no matter what sex they are), and should be treated with respect.
And I am sorry all my comments are total tl;drs! D:
Already there, Dgz.
Watched “The Accused” yesterday for the first time in some years.
Again I was reminded that the weakest part of the movie is the fact that the men who cheer on the rape are convicted of a crime. Cheering on and encouraging rape (of a woman) is not a crime in our society – in fact it’s a very normal and accepted behavior even 2+ decades later.
Pam, dontcha know there’s a sooper-seekrit MRM site out there somewhere that totally isn’t full of misogynists and racists and homophobes, where they do Real Activism and work toward lasting changes in society, but nobody will tell us where it is because we might… help them. Or something.
I’ll start considering the whole “what she was wearing” crap as legitimate once the people who espouse that start asking the same thing of male rape victims. What was John Doe wearing? What were his actions at the time? How was he behaving? How many sexual partners has he had in his lifetime?
Yes, male victims are taken less seriously (I acknowledge my own complicity here and where I once laughed at prison jokes, I now find them disgusting), but once society does take the rape of men as seriously as it does the rape of women, will male victims face the same bullshit female victims do?
And speaking of male victims of rape – I’ll start taking MRA concerns about it more seriously (note: this is not the same as taking the crime itself more seriously) if they make it easier for male victims to come forward. Drop the homophobia (how many male victims don’t come forward because they don’t want to be thought of as gay?) and drop the macho crap (how may don’t come forward because they think it makes them less of a man?). Make it clear it’s not their fault.
Of course, it makes it a lot more difficult to make it clear to a rape victim that it’s not their fault when they see all the slut shaming of female victims. If women are doing something to provoke their rapists, how can men avoid the niggling suspicion that they may have done something too? (I’d like to see a study done on this.)
I will believe that MRAs are seriously concerned about male rape victims when they start getting seriously concerned about all rape victims and rape culture in general. Because at the end of the day, it’s not male vs. female victims, it’s just about victims period.
oh and dgz3120, that was me you were quoting up there, not Ozy. And I didn’t discover the MRM via Manboobz, I discovered it about 2 years ago, and was even a supporter until I got fed up with the misogyny, racism, etc etc etc. Congratulations, you lost an ally.
GASP!! I’ve been BUSTED!!!
Because, fallible humans that we are, we’re loathe to relinquish worldly notions, mores, etc., that allow us to believe that some of us are always and forever inherently better and more worthy than others; so instead, we’ll meld these worldly possessions together with Christianity, lord it over others and call it “Good”.
When I have heard the above, it’s typically been from men, and not usually men who self-identify as feminist, quite the opposite.
I snipped the one portion out because I don’t typically hear that from anyone, except when anti-feminists are stating what they believe it is that women think.
No SHIT!! That’s something that seems to be consistently ignored.
@speedlines,
Yes, so I’ve heard! And kudos to them for successfully keeping that site so sooper-seekrit!!
Oh, and congratulations for extricating yourself from that mire of misogyny and racism, etc., etc.!!
@Tabby Lavalamp,
I don’t think MRAs are as concerned about the actual male victims of rape as they are about feminists (in particular, and women in general) not dropping all issues that they are currently dealing with in order to concern themselves with male victims of rape…and male victims of DV…and male victims of male on male non-sexual violence…and male “victims” of child support payments…and the high suicide rates of males…
Hmmmm, I see a pattern emerging here…
Man. This whole post and thread and everything just makes me so incredibly sad and angry. Sangry? I dunno. People. People. Just be nice? And respectful? Come on. I don’t understand why this is so hard. =[
^ 🙁 Don’t be sad, Sarah! You have a plush Cthulhu avatar and it is Teh Awesome! <3
@Tabby and @Pam I dunno if you saw it since it got buried under the avalanche that ensued when NWO showed up, but on the first page I wrote a big comment (it’s also in my blog so you can just go there :3 ) about how this same sort of victim blaming, “you asked for it by doing XYZ”, rape as punishment etc, intersects with why our society makes light of and accepts prison rape, and also how the typical slut-shaming and victim blaming of female victims actually let an abuser and rapist of boys (and girls) get away (also this has a lot to do w/ screwed up hockey culture and ideas of masculinity in that and homophobia -_-)
@Kristinmh @Spear Hmm… I can get almost newhere (tho I prefer a place where I can park, but there’s lots of those that can be on a subway line) but if it’s easier for ppl we can meet in a more central location like Eaton Centre/Dundas Square or rly wherever :3 I have subway access too :]
*gives Sarah big happy angel hugs* ):
*hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug*
*gives everybody hugs!*
Aw, thanks beshemoth! Your Cthulhu avatar is pretty awesome, too!
*hugs for Ami and everyone*
@Apeman, that isn’t actually true. Cheering on a crime, encouraging it, or inciting it can fall under complicity charges. While it is true that complicity charges are rarely pressed for cheering bystanders (cheering accomplices are often charged more harshly under accomplice liability), it is not true that they never could be. They could be charged as “accessories during the fact” or for “aiding and abetting”. Failure to intervene alone, barring a special duty, generally does not expose a bystander to liability, but verbal or other encouragement, or preventing other bystanders from intervening, could in many jurisdictions. Depending on the facts at hand (I have not seen the specific film), it might be an extremely unusual case, and probably a hard one for the prosecution to prove, but it could be done.
I did some quick research on Westlaw and did find precidents to suggest that verbal encouragement can be enough to establish complicity: Kuney v. Dutcher, 1885, 56 Mich. 308, 22 N.W. 866 (telling people they should go kill someone is complicity). U. S. v. Burroughs 12 M.J. 380 CMA,1982 (a military case in which the court determined that telling someone they should sell marijuana from their own stash because you do not have any and being present at the sale could be considered sufficient verbal encouragement for complicity). Williams v. United States, D.C.App.1963, 190 A.2d 269 (intimidating the victim of an assault but not actually doing the act and preventing escape can establish complicity). Smothers v. Com. Ky.App.,2003-unreported but available on Westlaw (appellant’s co-defendent was convicted of complicity to murder for verbally encouraging appellant to shoot).
So, yeah, charging people who did something like cheer “rape her, rape her” with complicity to commit rape is not unthinkable under US law. It is a crime to intentionally verbally encourage someone else to commit a crime, it just isn’t charged proportionately to its occurance.
Damn, law school is making me even nerdier, isn’t it?
Darksidecat – isn’t there also the possibility that the cheering bystander gets told “we could charge you as an accomplice but if you cooperate and testify against the main criminals we’ll cut you a deal”? So, no accomplice charges are filed but the more serious criminal has a better chance of being convicted due to witness testimony that would otherwise be unobtainable.
@Ami,
Oh, there’s no doubt in my mind that the issue of males being raped/sexually assaulted is either made light of or kept stuffed in the closet for a variety of reasons, including the ones that you mentioned. But MRAs don’t tend to bring the topic to light in its own right, separate from their anti-feminist, anti-women screeds, which leads me to believe that they’re not truly as concerned about the plight of current and prospective male victims of rape/sexual assault as they are with hauling out the topic on occasion to complain about women (particularly feminist women) concerning themselves with their own needs rather than focusing on the needs of men. The topic rears its ugly head, then is stuffed back into the closet until the next “special occasion” arises.
DSC, it’s awesome having you as our resident legal eagle. You are a great resource to have around, as you can cut through MRA’s bullshit understanding of the law like no other. Keep up the good work.
I thought the cheering was done by the rapists when it wasn’t their turn to be rapey.
Yesterday, I ran into the man who assaulted me. That assault occurred while I was wearing my fucking pajamas. So tell me, MRAs, are pajamas slutty now? I mean, that’s what the female student body at my undergrad university got told by our student elected chaplain. So was he right? Should I castigate myself for my slutty slutty pajamas?
Because I’ve got news for you: it doesn’t matter what the hell a woman is wearing. If a man wants to rape her, he’s going to rape her. End of fucking story.
I’m a bit late to the party, but wow! This post has left me feeling angry and sad . I came across this link a few weeks ago which I think is relevant to the conversation.
But why shouldn’t she take some responsibility too for the rape?
I hope I’ve done the link correctly!
I used to believe that girls that dressed modestly were safe from rape. That is probably one of the reasons I always dressed that way. I even rarely wore bright colors. I followed all the stupid rules, I dressed conservatively and was not sexually promiscuous. Still I was raped when I was 15. This is what pisses people off about that police officer. I was not safer, can we now talk about other things that could possibly actually make people safer from being raped.
I’m so sorry sarah that’s awful.
Oh no and Xtra I just saw your comment that’s horrible, I’m so sorry that happened to you
“women should be able to dress/act however they want and never suffer any consequences!”
I don’t see the problem with this as a goal, at least within the bounds of legality and physical feasibility. If I imagined a world where somehow rape did not happen — if, say, we all developed Jedi mind powers that ejected people from our personal space the instant that their presence was no longer in accordance with our will, or even more implausibly everyone on the planet made it their personal mission to ensure that any sex partners that they had were 100% on board with and as satisfied as possible by the acts mutually being conducted — I simply can’t imagine myself in that world thinking “Shit, we’ve got to reinvent this ‘rape’ thing because it’s so totally wrong that these people can just willy-nilly go about their ordinary business as if they have a right to do it without being violated!”
That other people seem to have that thought with a great amount of fervor worries me just a lil’ bit.
The word “consequences” tends to make me want to spit over my shoulder anyway. Even applied to children, I seem to always see it used in a way that smells massively of control freak — “Just like touching a hot burner or smoking pot in front of a cop, disagreeing with me has ‘natural’ consequences that probably involve you experiencing physical pain.”
Applied to adults in the manner that it seems to be here — that women should expect rape as the natural consequence of being so brazen as to wear clothing in accordance with various fashion schemes, appear in public, have a sex life, ultimately to exist — it is frankly disgusting.