Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the most odious misogynist bullshit I have seen thus far on the topic of the Slutwalks: a post on The Third Edge of the Sword, a blog that seems to go out of its way to be offensive and “edgy,” that takes victim blaming to a whole new level. Here’s the basic, er, argument of the post, which the author has put in giant pink letters so we won’t miss it:
Every woman marching in the Edmonton Slut Walk is publicly declaring herself a slut. This means every woman there desires sex with any and all partners. Any sexual activity you initiate with them comes with implied consent. They cannot say no, and if they do understand all their ‘no’s mean yes. They are all asking for it. They want it bad. Now. From you. Go get ’em!
Some other highlights:
[I]f you … dress slutty, men are going to stare at you. We’re going to catcall. We are going to tell you all sorts of sexual things we want to do to your body. And if you dress slutty and wave your ass in our face, we will do them. The organizers of this event are not oblivious to this point: what they want is a fake sexual revolution. They want to be able to impersonate sluts without actually being sluts, and that’s unacceptable. If you don’t want to be treated as a piece of meat, don’t marinate and grill yourself and sit perched on a piece of garlic toast. You dress slutty, you show off the goods, you try to get a reaction, you will get one. Hint: it’s not always going to be the one you want. …
The “reaction” he has in mind is rape. By calling rape a “reaction” instead of what it is — a criminal assault on someone, an act of sexual violence, a violation — he of course is attempting to switch the blame to the victim. He spells out his “logic” in more detail:
[W]hen you impersonate a slut we don’t fine you, and we don’t throw you in jail. There’s really only one punishment for dressing like a streetwalker when you aren’t one: you do have to endure the occasional rape. You should really suffer it in silence. Accept the character flaw within you that caused this, and move on. Police and court resources are already busy enough with real criminals: like actual rapists who do nasty things to their niece or the homeless native chick passed out under the bridge, or a conservatively dressed urban professional walking to her car, or a girl out jogging in a track suit. To equate the act of actually violating and raping one of these people with having sex with a girl who’s every square millimetre of public persona screams anybody who wants to can screw me right now is ridiculous.
Once again, this brand of misogyny leads to some conclusions that are pretty misandrist – namely, the notion that men are at heart rapists who can’t control their violent urges:
If you go out on the street in an outfit that would make Britney Spears feel uncomfortable, you do so knowing that your ultimate aim is to make men want you. Well, they want you now. Congrats. Oh, wait, you mean you didn’t understand what that implied? That in the great Bell curve of sexual congress you’ve just pushed everybody on the right-hand side of the -2 std devs line past that imaginary barrier that says “there is no power in the universe powerful enough to stop me from sliding my finger inside your panties”? I call bullshit. You do know. But you want to be a virginal slut, to dress in ways that makes men helpless to their urges but still leaves you fully in restrictive control.
The blogger concludes by arguing that the Slutwalkers are all “lying bitches” because they dress like they wasn’t to be raped, but do not actually want to be raped. Then he makes this lovely suggestion:
If your wife is one of them, I’m very very sorry. Maybe a good rape might make her a little more manageable around the house.
Now this post is an atmittedly extreme example of a misogynistic response to the Slutwalks. But the basic “logic” of this blogger’s would-be argument is essentially identical to that of many MRA and other “manosphere” pieces I’ve seen on the subject, the main difference between them being that this guy embraces the logical conclusion of his argument — that Slutwalkers deserve to be raped — while the MRAs who make essentially the same argument (and fling the same sorts of insults at the Slutwalkers) make a show of saying that they don’t really think the Slutwalkers “deserve” it. And maybe they’ve convinced themselves that this caveat means something . But in that case the extreme reaction that manosphere misogynists have had to the Slutwalks – the insults thrown at the Slutwalkers, the “jokey” references to rape, the prurient sneering – makes little sense. If you argue that women are “asking for it” when they dress like “sluts,” you’re essentially saying they deserve it. You’re making the same argument this guy is making, but pretending you aren’t.
NOTE: The graphic above is taken from the official web site for the Edmonton SlutWalk 2011, which took place a week ago. Here are some pictures of the march.
“All of you women claim to dress up sexy (with as little as possible) cause it makes you “feel” good. That’d be your base animal instinct to attract men which fulfills that part of your sexuality. So what you want is to be praised for being unable/unwilling to control your sexuality while wanting men to be in complete control of their sexuality. ”
I and many people have said this before, but this is a stupid analogy. No one is complaining about ‘slutty’ scantily-clad men, which would be the equivalent. That you equate rape with clothing choice only says anything about you.
I control my sexuality. When I see a hot guy with his shirt off, I don’t rape him or insult him. My reaction would probably be to be a bit flustered, point him out to a friend, be overly nice to him maybe…? Shallow, yes, but rape?
Love how NWO just pulls numbers out of his ass (over 80% of child abuse cases are man on female child, so even if his utterly bullshit notion that all man on male child abuse was by gay or bi men were true, it would not be anywhere near his cited numbers).
I’m adding this to the list of Classic NWO Statistics, which also include:
— 90% of feminist marriages end in divorce
— 90% of children in “the ghetto” are born out of wedlock
— 90% of women claim to have been raped in college (they’re lying, of course)
I wouldn’t hold it against him, though. As you’d know if you weren’t stupid brainwashed cattle, Congress just added a new section to Title IX forcing men to make up nonsense statistics about things they know nothing about, or else gay Jewish U.N. soldiers with women’s studies degrees will break into their homes and shoot them down like dogs. IT’S ALL THERE, SHEEPLE! OPEN YOUR EYES! WE ARE THROUGH THE LOOKING GLASS!
Shaenon, I tried that one. It must have upset him, because he not only insulted me, he also insulted my iconic basenji. He also failed to answer the question.
90% of feminist marriages end in divorce??
LOL
According to this article, relationship where both partners are feminist seem to be happier: http://www.livescience.com/1964-feminists-fun.html
an excerpt from the article:
~College-age women who reported having feminist male partners also reported higher quality relationships that were more stable than couples involving non-feminist male partners.
~College guys who were themselves feminists and had feminist partners reported more equality in their relationships.
~Older women who perceived their male partners as feminists reported greater relationship health and sexual satisfaction.
~Older men with feminist partners said they had more stable relationships and greater sexual satisfaction.
Overall, feminism and romance do go hand in hand, the scientists say.
While they aren’t sure how feminism works to enhance relationship health, the researchers have some ideas. Feminist men might be more supportive of their female partner’s ambitions than are traditionalists. Men with feminist partners may enjoy the extra breadwinner to share the economic burden of maintaining a household.
and hey, it’s from LiveScience, not one of those dang lying feminazi propaganda sites!
@klopbop exactly! also the original slutwalk was in response to a police officer who believed these rape myths… so it’s also a protest to educate the police and others in authority, b/c alrdy survivors worry about how they will be treated or if they’ll be believed or be victim-blamed/shamed, etc… and this just exacerbates the fears and lack of trust : (even if it’s not ALL police, you worry you might get the bad egg, esp after you’ve just been traumatized) which all ties into what you said and what also my exps have been w/ rape survivors :
I’m still trying to wrap my head around the concept of “slut” in the first place.
Apparently if I have had sex with more than 9 men* I am a slut.
Apparently if I am a slut I will have sex with ANY MAN – it means I have no standards I am just desperate for all the cock I can get.
Because, ya know, out of the roughly 18 million men who live in my state I found a whole NINE I was willing to have sex with and there’s no way I would have found that many if I had any standards at all about attractiveness or personality!!
I mean we all know that “having standards” means “only being willing to sleep with Brad Pitt” and since there’s only one of him, well, you do the math…
*which I have
Though the first 9 were all from Connecticut and Massachusetts – between those two states there’s only about 4 million men. MUCH harder to find 9 good ones there. Also, Brat Pitt doesn’t even live there! Yup, definitely no standards.
Think of it this way, Plymouth, most of these MRAs can’t even get ONE girl “under their belt.” Just imagine how desperate you’d have to be to get nine?
Yeah, its a stretch in logic, but what are you gonna do?
kirbywarp – whoa. I think you just blew my mind. That explains so much.
Damn it. He has to be from Edmonton. I would have to live in the same friggin’ city as that misogynistic, homophobic, racist piece of crap (yeah, I saw “Edmonton” and had to look at more of his blog).
On the other hand, I would so watch a reality show that brings his impotent rage together with NWOslave’s where we could watch them on a couch together watching the news over which they’d bond while angrily screaming at the television.
Back when I was in my mid-20s and kinda rebounding from my ex-fiance I slept with quite a few people in a short period of time. Including my only true one-night-stand (everyone else I was either friends with for quite a while first or slept with more than once) and the one time I slept with a guy the very same night I met him (he was totally smokin’ hot and no regrets there!). So based on someone’s idea of what the appropriate way for a girl to behave I seem to have gotten labeled a slut.
So one night I got contacted on IM by a horny high-school kid looking to get laid. I think he said he was 17. I have no idea how he found me or who in my extended social circle may have referred him to me, but he was clearly under the impression that: 1) I was a slut and 2) because I was a slut I would agree to sleep with him, no questions asked, before having even met him.
He seemed really upset when I told him I wouldn’t sleep with him unless I found him attractive. I asked him to send me a picture. He sent me a grainy class pic in which I could barely make out his face but it wasn’t promising. I told him we could meet for coffee and if I decided he was attractive we could have sex. That wasn’t good enough for him – unless I agreed in advance that we would have sex he wasn’t even willing to make the time to meet me. I declined. I almost felt bad for the kid. Clearly someone had given him a really warped impression about how sex actually works in the real world.
Why wait, abort them and start sexing them now. Oh yes aborty sexy times. They are just asking for it, coming out of the fallopian tube wearing nothing but those zygote cells. Dirty zygote sluts, mmmmmmmmmmmm, yeah.
Did I win evil feminazi of the year?
Well, I wouldn’t go so far as to say that anyone ‘deserves’ rape or to defend those who do it. Rape is a crime, and should be punished accordingly (I’m talking about actual rape cases here – not “she got drunk off her ass one night, enthusiastically hooked up with a random guy, then later sobered up and ashamed of her boyfriend/family/whatever decided to call it rape” – that’s a separate issue). So again, rape is a crime and the responsibility is certainly the perpetrator’s, not the victim’s. But is there really no merit to the idea that certain behaviours cause people to form certain ideas about you, and even encourage unwanted advances? Is it complete balderdash to claim that essentially flaunting one’s sexual assets may encourage sexual behaviour from others? I’m getting the impression that police officer is being vilified for essentially trying to help. Nobody except hardcore MRA nutjobs ever said women ‘deserve’ rape. But it is possible certain things (dressing provocatively for one) put them at higher risk.
Now if the response had simply been “state of the victim’s dress doesn’t seem to be a large factor in how rapists choose their victims” that would’ve been fine, that’s an argument you can make and it addresses the original issue. But it was more like “women should be able to dress/act however they want and never suffer any consequences!” It’s almost as if a policeman had said people should wear helmets when riding motorcycles, and a bunch of angry protesters organized a “bare-headed walk” in response, shouting that nobody should dictate to them what to wear!
Finally, I’m not sure what protests like this actually accomplish – besides getting to dress up in your Halloween outfit (I especially liked the assassin and the slutty Pope). It’s not like men think rape is okay, and those who do, well, they probably won’t change their minds after this.
I actually found this post triggering as fuck, especially since when I was raped I was dressed up nice (not ‘slutty’, but in a dress and high heels) because it was my birthday party. Just woke up from the worst nightmare I have in awhile.
Ion-
Posters on here have mentioned being victims of rape while wearing jeans and a t-shirt, baggy clothes, etc. There are also no studies, no evidence that says revealing clothing is a cause of rape. Clothing never has and never will be the issue. I dont understand why people cant get this through their heads.
Children get raped. Elderly people get raped. Men get raped. None of these groups of people are known to wear mini skirts or crop tops.
On top of that, rape is also used as a tool of war in other parts of the world, in order to instill fear and ensure submission. Many women who live in such countries do not dress in revealing clothing. Many cover up in their traditional clothing. Thus, further proof clothing has nothing to do with it. Most rapes are also perpetrated by people the victims already know, not some creep hiding in the alleyway of a nightclub or bar waiting to pounce on some unsuspecting drunk girl.
It’s also problematic to tell women to cover up because it puts the onus on them to not get raped, when instead the focus should be on keeping rapists from raping.
Women have the right to wear whatever they choose. Rapists can learn to control themselves. I see men walk around shirtless all the time during the summer, but heaven forbid a woman wear daisy dukes and a tank top to keep cool, she must be asking for it!
Finally, the slut walk accomplishes plenty. It puts forth the message of everything I typed above. It’s women asserting their right to body autonomy and the right to wear what they want in public and not be harnessed. Its women and men speaking out against rape culture and letting the police officer, and other like minded people know that the myth of not dressing slutty to prevent rape is complete crap.
I dont think men think rape is okay either (except for rapists themselves and the asshole this post is originally about) but even so, there are lots of men and women who still think its ok to blame the victim, even just a bit, for not covering up and keeping safe.
We never question or blame the person who gets mugged or violently assaulted, why do we question and blame rape victims?
“Face it, guys, you blew it. You took a perfectly legitimate set of issues, then let your movement get infested with misogynists, racists, anti-semites, PUA’s, rape and abuse apologists, and the ever-popular conspiracy nuts. You dug your own grave, so lie in it.”
Translation – I have no actual argument against the MRM bar making the false allegations about the entire movement.
Its hilarious when the self important posters of Manboobz, artificially high on delusions of superiority having spent so much time mocking the most damaged and simple minded members of the mens movement then make authoritative sounding statements, as if they are not willfully participating at the same level of debate, as those that they mock.
Sitting in Plato’s cave wearing the Emperors new clothes beating a strawman.
Ion
With all due respect, I think you miss the point. Firstly, I’ve yet to see a single shred of evidence that how a woman dresses makes them more likely to be raped.
Secondly, the point of slutwalks is to protest a culture that tells men they have an excuse. They don’t and we need to stop perpetuating that thinking with all this “Well, what was she wearing?” crap.
Also, (and this isn’t directed at Ion), can’t believe how many men still equate a mugging with an assault on someone’s genitalia. My money = not the same as my vagina.
NWO, you ignored my question (actually, you ignored my entire post, but I want an answer for this one):
When you go to an art museum, do you think it’s okay to steal the art because it’s on display?
Jules, well said. Especially: “Secondly, the point of slutwalks is to protest a culture that tells men they have an excuse. They don’t and we need to stop perpetuating that thinking with all this “Well, what was she wearing?” crap.”
Doogz, Ozy acquired her view of the MRM by reading what its members wrote on their own blogs and forums. If you don’t like what their words reveal about them, I suggest you take it up with them.
No Johnny Pez
Ozy acquired her view the same way you did, from this site only, its clearly evidenced by her piece and her view and the requests to be shown information that doesn’t correspond with the limited number of quotes that manboobz mines from a very limited number sites.
Manboobz is basically about feminist bigots calling out men rights bigots while pretending that all mens rights people are defined by a minority.
Most of you appear to be as heavily invested in your one bigotry and willful ignorance as the people that you gather here to mock.
Also, being heavily invested in mocking others that you believe are lesser than you, says quite a bit about a person. I think the buzz gives the users here temporary relief from their own problems and issues.
Dgz, I came to Manboobz originally thinking it was a misogynist site like Spearhead and A Voice for Men. I stayed for two reasons: (1) because everyone here had the same reaction to the up-voting at the Spearhead that I did: how can a group of people be so entrenched in a mutual admiration society that they actually vote, as a matter of course, on ignoring dissenting voices–not trolls, actual people who are trying to engage them? and (2) because Paul Elam is a narcissistic bully and I was disgusted at how he and his cronies manipulated the domestic violence debate. None of my male friends or family members consider themselves feminists–I actually grew up thinking of feminism as a dirty word–but none of these men would accept the level of sexism (to put it very mildly) that is rampant on both of these sites. I wanted to support men’s rights because bad things *are* happening to men, but I can’t find any sites that aren’t dominated by men who think women are evil unless they dedicate their lives to being cheerleaders for men. So, yeah, I’m done being a cheerleader for men who look down on me. That’s why I’m now a feminist. I like men; I don’t like sexists. Everyone on this site would tell you the same thing.
Here is a challenge for manboobzers.
If the intellectual superiority you clearly feel isn’t an illusion created by picking on the weaker members and then mobbing , mocking and intellectually bullying any that arrive here from outside your bubble.
W. Price of The Spearhead has responded to Ozy.
My bet is that none of you can step outside your intellectual training bra/comfort zone here where you know the game is rigged and debate as an individual with some of the more intellectually robust members of the men’s rights movement.
That reminds me. David as you can see – even the lame stream media is now acknowledging the men’s rights position on domestic violence to be correct and the feminist one to be a collection of falsehoods and myths.
ht tp://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/07/feminism-domestic-violence-men
Tick tock feminism.
Ami and spear, I’ve got plans tonight but I’m around next weekend. Where/when is the Toronto meetup going to be? I’m an eastender myself.
@klopbop,
And isn’t it interesting how feminism takes the blame for the viewpoint that all men are potential rapists, and yet it’s mainly conservatives (esp. ultra-conservatives), who tend to be anti-feminist, who want to dictate what is and is not proper, modest attire for women, lest a man’s inner rapist be tempted?
Having checked out that link you posted to the conservative Christian’s article on immodest clothing, I think I’d better start getting dressed for tomorrow’s workday right now so that I’ll have time to ensure that every article of clothing I wear is properly buttoned and pinned from every possible angle that might be viewed as I move around.
Oh, and the Biblical quote provided at the end of that particular article clearly shows how the concern surrounding women’s attire is focused on the immodest display of riches and wealth, not flesh and bodily outlines. I wonder how many of these conservative Christians lecture each other on the immodesty of their outward displays of classism…
“My bet is that none of you can step outside your intellectual training bra/comfort zone here where you know the game is rigged and debate as an individual with some of the more intellectually robust members of the men’s rights movement.”
Is that a joke?
Never one to back down from a challenge, I dutifully went over to see Price’s post. I also read through the comments and got down to round about the bit where they devolved into a discussion of the merits or otherwise of Ozymandias’ arse*. After several comments that consisted mainly of sentences like “Now THIS is a nice arse” together with accompanying links, I gave up in disgust,.
As for your assertion that “Ozy acquired her view the same way you did, from this site only”, what an arrogant and trollish assumption. Of course, I can only speak for myself but I ended up here because I stumbled upon http://grerp.blogspot.com/ and from there onto ALL the MRA sites in her sidebar and- because I was so disgusted and morbidly fascinated- started reading them regularly. I have to say, they shook my faith in men for a while but, thankfully, they eventually led me here to Manboobz and I remembered that they are lots of great men- in fact, more good men than bad men.
And I get kind of a kick out of the fact that it was reading sites like Spearhead that drove me here and to places like Feministe.
*By the way, from the pictures, it looked like a great arse to me.