Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the most odious misogynist bullshit I have seen thus far on the topic of the Slutwalks: a post on The Third Edge of the Sword, a blog that seems to go out of its way to be offensive and “edgy,” that takes victim blaming to a whole new level. Here’s the basic, er, argument of the post, which the author has put in giant pink letters so we won’t miss it:
Every woman marching in the Edmonton Slut Walk is publicly declaring herself a slut. This means every woman there desires sex with any and all partners. Any sexual activity you initiate with them comes with implied consent. They cannot say no, and if they do understand all their ‘no’s mean yes. They are all asking for it. They want it bad. Now. From you. Go get ’em!
Some other highlights:
[I]f you … dress slutty, men are going to stare at you. We’re going to catcall. We are going to tell you all sorts of sexual things we want to do to your body. And if you dress slutty and wave your ass in our face, we will do them. The organizers of this event are not oblivious to this point: what they want is a fake sexual revolution. They want to be able to impersonate sluts without actually being sluts, and that’s unacceptable. If you don’t want to be treated as a piece of meat, don’t marinate and grill yourself and sit perched on a piece of garlic toast. You dress slutty, you show off the goods, you try to get a reaction, you will get one. Hint: it’s not always going to be the one you want. …
The “reaction” he has in mind is rape. By calling rape a “reaction” instead of what it is — a criminal assault on someone, an act of sexual violence, a violation — he of course is attempting to switch the blame to the victim. He spells out his “logic” in more detail:
[W]hen you impersonate a slut we don’t fine you, and we don’t throw you in jail. There’s really only one punishment for dressing like a streetwalker when you aren’t one: you do have to endure the occasional rape. You should really suffer it in silence. Accept the character flaw within you that caused this, and move on. Police and court resources are already busy enough with real criminals: like actual rapists who do nasty things to their niece or the homeless native chick passed out under the bridge, or a conservatively dressed urban professional walking to her car, or a girl out jogging in a track suit. To equate the act of actually violating and raping one of these people with having sex with a girl who’s every square millimetre of public persona screams anybody who wants to can screw me right now is ridiculous.
Once again, this brand of misogyny leads to some conclusions that are pretty misandrist – namely, the notion that men are at heart rapists who can’t control their violent urges:
If you go out on the street in an outfit that would make Britney Spears feel uncomfortable, you do so knowing that your ultimate aim is to make men want you. Well, they want you now. Congrats. Oh, wait, you mean you didn’t understand what that implied? That in the great Bell curve of sexual congress you’ve just pushed everybody on the right-hand side of the -2 std devs line past that imaginary barrier that says “there is no power in the universe powerful enough to stop me from sliding my finger inside your panties”? I call bullshit. You do know. But you want to be a virginal slut, to dress in ways that makes men helpless to their urges but still leaves you fully in restrictive control.
The blogger concludes by arguing that the Slutwalkers are all “lying bitches” because they dress like they wasn’t to be raped, but do not actually want to be raped. Then he makes this lovely suggestion:
If your wife is one of them, I’m very very sorry. Maybe a good rape might make her a little more manageable around the house.
Now this post is an atmittedly extreme example of a misogynistic response to the Slutwalks. But the basic “logic” of this blogger’s would-be argument is essentially identical to that of many MRA and other “manosphere” pieces I’ve seen on the subject, the main difference between them being that this guy embraces the logical conclusion of his argument — that Slutwalkers deserve to be raped — while the MRAs who make essentially the same argument (and fling the same sorts of insults at the Slutwalkers) make a show of saying that they don’t really think the Slutwalkers “deserve” it. And maybe they’ve convinced themselves that this caveat means something . But in that case the extreme reaction that manosphere misogynists have had to the Slutwalks – the insults thrown at the Slutwalkers, the “jokey” references to rape, the prurient sneering – makes little sense. If you argue that women are “asking for it” when they dress like “sluts,” you’re essentially saying they deserve it. You’re making the same argument this guy is making, but pretending you aren’t.
NOTE: The graphic above is taken from the official web site for the Edmonton SlutWalk 2011, which took place a week ago. Here are some pictures of the march.
NWO:
I’ve already told you that same sex pedophiles are not necessarily gay. I’ve also linked to the clinical definition of pedophilia, the one that states that the child’s gender doesn’t relate to the abuser’s orientation. I’ve referenced a study that showed that, in the case of around 200 male child abusers of male children, not one of them were gay. So tell me, NWO, if the clinical definition of pedophilila is in direct contradiction to yours, are you wrong? Or is this all a big conspiracy by the LGTBQ groups?
NWO – So, I’m pretty sure I heard you say you never raped anyone. How on earth did you ever manage that with so many irresistibly dressed sluts around? I mean, you said they were “asking for it”! You turned them down? Why? How?!
Kyso K Since the asshat in the post is apparently *shudder* Canadian (utterly horrified there’s someone so vile from my country, and apparently from my province), what he means by “native” is Aboriginal (Native American).
As for NWO, I can’t read that stuff anymore. He makes me head hurt. And really makes me wonder where his parents when wrong.
And I’ve already told you kirbywarp, yes they are. I’m afraid it’s a hard sell for you to convince anyone with half of one single brain cell otherwise. 200 male abusers of boys makes them gay pedophiles. 200 male abusers of girls would make them straight pedophiles. Ya know you can be gay and a pedophile.
Really wish we had preview or edit buttons around here. Obviously I meant where his parents *went* wrong.
I treat them like the sluts they are Plymouth. They get all insulted. Too funny.
NWO:
Yes. You can be gay and be a pedophile. You can be straight and be a pedophile. You can abuse a male child and be a straight pedophile!! Its this last one you don’t get, even in the face of the actual definition of pedophilia. The DSM wasn’t exactly queer-friendly in the past, so they aren’t leaving it out just for the hell of it.
I wonder why your parents didn’t abort you worthless ass Skyal. I bet they wonder that as well.
No you can’t Kirbywarp, wake up. boy/boy girl/girl = gay.
NWO:
So.. By that logic, everybody in prison is gay? You know, with all the prison rapes going on?
Say Plymouth do you walk around near naked in front of boys entering puberty. Maybe get them all horny and then smack them down and call them pervert’s? Just wondering? Meh, I guess they were asking for it.
Only the ones that rape kirbywarp. Or are they straight as well. I’m sure theres a study that’ll bear it out.
NWO:
Huh, since I’ve never been raped, I guess nobody is gay. Please don’t forget the comma next time. In fact:
99% of prison rapists identify as heterosexual.
Oh I’m sure Kirby. Lets see, men raping men therefore they’re straight. I see now why you think I’m loopy. Goodnight.
NWO- ROFL.
Those are mighty big claims to be making about me when I’ve posted maybe 5 times on this blog. You don’t know anything about me, though I have lurked enough around here and familiarized myself with your asinine posts to know that you’re a miserable, ignorant, sniveling little turd.
If I told you that the illuminati had hidden cameras in your house, reptilians built an underground army under your street, and some horrible feminists out to enslave the male sex moved in next door, would that prompt you to move onto a deserted island?
I dont know why I should even bother trying to make you understand why your opinions about rape are so flawed, but what the hell.
If you see a nice car on the street, do you steal it? If you walk by an electronics store with a bunch of cool stuff that you really want but cant afford in the window, do you break the window and take them? If you go grocery shopping while hungry, do you start eating all the food before paying just because you’re hungry? or do you pay for it first then eat it later on?
Stealing all those things are wrong. It is also against the law. Now consider this, all those things mentioned are objects. They aren’t even alive. Yet it’s still wrong to take them. A woman, a living, breathing, HUMAN BEING is walking down the street in what you deem “slutty” attire…why do you or any of you other filthy rape apologists even think that it’s ok to just take what you want from her in the form of forced sex?
Its bad enough that I had to compare stealing THINGS to the rape of an actual human being (I apologize if I’ve upset anyone) but its the only way I can make the comparison of being tempted to take something, and taking without consent. No matter what a woman is wearing or what she is doing. If she says no, its no. End of story. And if you and most other people can control themselves to not steal food, cars and electronics simply because they want them, then the certain men who supposedly get so aroused by a woman in a mini skirt can control themselves not to rape.
And on top of all that, you idiotic MRA’s who screech about misandry are committing some of the worst kind yourselves. Implying that many men apparently cannot control themselves and act like rabid beasts when it comes to sex. What kind of BS is that? You are an insult to the majority of non rapist men out there. I mean, if Andrea Dworkin (and I may be misquoting so more advanced feminists feel free to correct me if I’m wrong) actually did imply that all men have the ability to rape, aren’t you, NWO, and the rest of the MRAs saying the exact same thing? that men can rape so us bitches better cover up? Congratulations! you agree with one of your enemies!
And I’m not claiming you yourself are a rapist NWO, but when you claim that its a woman’s fault, you apologize and dismiss the actions of all the actual rapists out there. That is extremely fucked up. Its never the victim’s fault.
I think someone has set NWO to self-destruct mode. Keep it up, folks; it shouldn’t be long now.
Consider this the envelope (e-nvelope? xD) proof that Kirby is the next Carnac xD (or Karnac):
[01:36] Kirby: he’s probably just gonna repeat “No, they aren’t.”
[01:36] Ami: he doesn’t read studies
[01:36] Ami: or what other ppl say
[01:36] Kirby: nope
[01:37] Kirby: …
[01:37] Kirby: dammit, I hate being right…
XXDDDDDDDD
@NWO
Actually Ami reminded me of something off thread, and I just had to point this out. You say that boy/boy or girl/girl = gay. Alright. So anybody who has sex with the opposite gender is straight, no matter what they think of the matter? Have you heard of gay men marrying straight women in an attempt to hide the fact that they are gay? Some of them actually had families. So apparently, they are 100% straight, no matter what they think they are.
NWO – I treat them like the sluts they are Plymouth. They get all insulted. Too funny.
Oh, so sluts actually AREN’T asking to be raped – they’re just asking to be insulted. Got it. So “treating them like sluts” DOES NOT IN FACT include raping them. So why exactly do you think they’re being raped then?
Say Plymouth do you walk around near naked in front of boys entering puberty. Maybe get them all horny and then smack them down and call them pervert’s? Just wondering? Meh, I guess they were asking for it.
I don’t actually know any boys entering puberty, and even if I did I would want nothing to do with seeing them horny because I am in fact not a pedophile. And if for whatever reason horny pubescent boys ended up in my presence I would not call them perverts because simply BEING HORNY does not make one a pervert – I would just LEAVE. So, no. What the fuck is your goddamned problem?
Naughty, naughty NWO. I see your opinion on abortion changes when it’s someone who disagrees with you. And I find it interesting that this is the first time I’ve said anything to you and you pull that bs.
As for worthless…I know what I’ve done for society and none of it is worthless. As for you, it appears all you’ve done is spew hatred, misogyny & idiocy so really, all I can do is laugh at your pathetic behaviour and attempts to deal with your inferiority complex by being nasty to other people.
NWO, what a wretched piece of trash you must be, since you only seem able to define yourself by the damage you can do to others and you expect other men to do the same. Sorry, the rest of us aren’t as weak and lacking in self-control and self-discipline as you. We’re capable of looking at provocatively-dressed women without feeling the irresistible compulsion to engage in public displays of attempted (and ultimately, failed) dominance. We don’t want to take what isn’t freely and gladly offered and we derive no pleasure from the idea of actually breaking someone against their will.
What gives me comfort about you, what makes me smile, is the knowledge that what you want most in life will never be yours and you’ll spend the rest of your life bitterly watching others enjoy it. You are insufficient to command anything from women but fear and disgust.
If you think a woman’s clothes are saying “FUCK ME HARD!” maybe you should get your ears examined. …. Or start a fetish support group for men like you who went and got their hearts broken by the world’s most self-centered sport bra.
Well, NWO, you never answered my last set of questions, but I might as well give you another try.
Imagine you’ve got a dinner date with a lady you like. (I know, I know, but make an effort here.) You put on your best, most flattering clothes and head out. But on your way to the restaurant, a guy grabs you, yanks your pants down, and fucks you up the ass. What is your reaction?
a) I’m delighted! After all, I dressed up with the expectation of possibly having sex, and sex is what I got. This is my idea of a perfect evening.
b) I’m none too happy about being raped, but I understand that it’s the proper punishment for looking attractive. If I’d been allowed to continue down the street unmolested, think of all the pain I could have caused for straight women and gay men who saw me but didn’t get to have sex with me! Imagine their horrible agony!
c) I accept the rape as my just punishment, but I think it might be a little extreme. It would have been more appropriate for the guy to follow me down the street insulting me.
d) It doesn’t matter what I want. Once I go out in public, I forfeit the right to personal autonomy, and it’s up to any random person who sees me to decide how my body should be used.
Your choice?
@Plymouth
What the fuck is your goddamned problem?
I think everyone who has interacted with NWO has asked that very question at one point or another. I have my theories, but I’d have to break out my copy of the DSM-IV to explain them in any detail. It will suffice to quote the inimitable Buzz Lightyear:
“You are a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity. Farewell.”
Good god, that was disturbing to read. Incredibly unsettling.
I don’t see why it’s so hard to make the connection that clothing =/= consent. Even if someone is dancing around in the sexiest possible outfit I have ever seen, there is no reason for me to assume that that means they want to have sex with me. Or anyone else. Maybe they really are just teases, enjoying the attention they get. So what? It really doesn’t hurt me, does it? It doesn’t reduce their humanity. I might find it annoying, but I find lots of things annoying. All I have to do is just kinda… direct my attention elsewhere. Sluts in the street! Oh no! My world is over, and clearly I shall go on a raping spree! Wait, that doesn’t happen with every man, so… why should these women (and men) have to plan for anyone else’s interpretation of their clothing? What’s the standard for “slutty”? Some conservative Christians argue that pants and purse straps across the chest are immodest (http://www.gerald285.com/index.php?p=1_40_Modesty). Are you going by their standard? Some conservative Muslims may argue that every part of a woman is immodest, and showing the eyes or face is too suggestive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_clothing). Do you plan for these people? What if you tempt them? How do you know who they are, so you can protect yourself? The goalposts are constantly moving, and how can a woman (or man) possibly know to what standard he or she will be held?
This ad about sums up the ridiculousness of the idea:
The majority of the people that I counseled on the crisis line were not people who had gone out, had “consensual” sex and then retracted it. One woman had been pulled into a car while walking home from a child’s birthday party. Another woman was visiting a “friend” in his apartment and he beat the living shit out of her. Another was escaping her husband, who had crushed her hands with a hammer (among other horrible things). One was held down by her fellow soldiers and assaulted. Were they dressed “sexy”? Not really. Most of them were dressed like a very average person – t-shirts, blouses, sweatshirts, jeans (and a soldier’s uniform). One of them was wearing high heels, but that’s not exactly uncommon. These were the people that were terrified to tell the police, because, “what if they think I’m just a slut?!” or “I was probably asking for it, because I [was drinking coffee in his apartment, was walking alone, they might have thought I was flirting, I married him]”. Of course, these are extreme examples that had a lot of violence in them – all of these clients were in the emergency room, and I was there to advocate for them. Clearly, not all sexual assaults are so violent.
But that’s why these SlutWalks kinda matter. They show that it’s not a woman’s (or man’s) clothing or sexual history that makes rape happen. If it were, all of these women and men would be raped on the spot. But they aren’t. That shows that there’s something else at work. It’s not about what someone wears or how someone behaves. It’s about one person taking advantage of another.