Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the most odious misogynist bullshit I have seen thus far on the topic of the Slutwalks: a post on The Third Edge of the Sword, a blog that seems to go out of its way to be offensive and “edgy,” that takes victim blaming to a whole new level. Here’s the basic, er, argument of the post, which the author has put in giant pink letters so we won’t miss it:
Every woman marching in the Edmonton Slut Walk is publicly declaring herself a slut. This means every woman there desires sex with any and all partners. Any sexual activity you initiate with them comes with implied consent. They cannot say no, and if they do understand all their ‘no’s mean yes. They are all asking for it. They want it bad. Now. From you. Go get ’em!
Some other highlights:
[I]f you … dress slutty, men are going to stare at you. We’re going to catcall. We are going to tell you all sorts of sexual things we want to do to your body. And if you dress slutty and wave your ass in our face, we will do them. The organizers of this event are not oblivious to this point: what they want is a fake sexual revolution. They want to be able to impersonate sluts without actually being sluts, and that’s unacceptable. If you don’t want to be treated as a piece of meat, don’t marinate and grill yourself and sit perched on a piece of garlic toast. You dress slutty, you show off the goods, you try to get a reaction, you will get one. Hint: it’s not always going to be the one you want. …
The “reaction” he has in mind is rape. By calling rape a “reaction” instead of what it is — a criminal assault on someone, an act of sexual violence, a violation — he of course is attempting to switch the blame to the victim. He spells out his “logic” in more detail:
[W]hen you impersonate a slut we don’t fine you, and we don’t throw you in jail. There’s really only one punishment for dressing like a streetwalker when you aren’t one: you do have to endure the occasional rape. You should really suffer it in silence. Accept the character flaw within you that caused this, and move on. Police and court resources are already busy enough with real criminals: like actual rapists who do nasty things to their niece or the homeless native chick passed out under the bridge, or a conservatively dressed urban professional walking to her car, or a girl out jogging in a track suit. To equate the act of actually violating and raping one of these people with having sex with a girl who’s every square millimetre of public persona screams anybody who wants to can screw me right now is ridiculous.
Once again, this brand of misogyny leads to some conclusions that are pretty misandrist – namely, the notion that men are at heart rapists who can’t control their violent urges:
If you go out on the street in an outfit that would make Britney Spears feel uncomfortable, you do so knowing that your ultimate aim is to make men want you. Well, they want you now. Congrats. Oh, wait, you mean you didn’t understand what that implied? That in the great Bell curve of sexual congress you’ve just pushed everybody on the right-hand side of the -2 std devs line past that imaginary barrier that says “there is no power in the universe powerful enough to stop me from sliding my finger inside your panties”? I call bullshit. You do know. But you want to be a virginal slut, to dress in ways that makes men helpless to their urges but still leaves you fully in restrictive control.
The blogger concludes by arguing that the Slutwalkers are all “lying bitches” because they dress like they wasn’t to be raped, but do not actually want to be raped. Then he makes this lovely suggestion:
If your wife is one of them, I’m very very sorry. Maybe a good rape might make her a little more manageable around the house.
Now this post is an atmittedly extreme example of a misogynistic response to the Slutwalks. But the basic “logic” of this blogger’s would-be argument is essentially identical to that of many MRA and other “manosphere” pieces I’ve seen on the subject, the main difference between them being that this guy embraces the logical conclusion of his argument — that Slutwalkers deserve to be raped — while the MRAs who make essentially the same argument (and fling the same sorts of insults at the Slutwalkers) make a show of saying that they don’t really think the Slutwalkers “deserve” it. And maybe they’ve convinced themselves that this caveat means something . But in that case the extreme reaction that manosphere misogynists have had to the Slutwalks – the insults thrown at the Slutwalkers, the “jokey” references to rape, the prurient sneering – makes little sense. If you argue that women are “asking for it” when they dress like “sluts,” you’re essentially saying they deserve it. You’re making the same argument this guy is making, but pretending you aren’t.
NOTE: The graphic above is taken from the official web site for the Edmonton SlutWalk 2011, which took place a week ago. Here are some pictures of the march.
I have pretty severe Asperger’s, which means quite a lot of difficulty correctly seeing and interpreting social cues.
However, I know that a woman dressed in a way that I find attractive is not an automatic invitation for me to have sex with her. That’s obvious – it doesn’t need explaining, and I’ve needed lots of basic social norms explained to me.
If I know it, these assholes know it. They just don’t care.
As a rape survivor, and one that fits his idea of “a real crime”… I hearby call bulls- >:| and he can claim to speak for us all he wants, but my exp w/ other survivors is that NONE of us believe his crap nor feel that other survivors of rape or sexual assault are insulting us or nething -_-;; I’m getting pretty tired of being held up as a shield by ppl trying to dismiss rape against other people (women AND men, cuz this also happens to guys too “WHAT ABOUT THE REAL SURVIVORS” as well as lots of other women).. >_>;;
yeah I know that it’s supposed to be Beckish rhetoric (or perhaps Krystalish xD ) it is incredibly misandrist tho -_-;;; To me the biggest thing here is even stripping away the (presumably) over the top rhetoric, he thinks RLY lowly of men o_o;; And how much they love and care about their loved ones too : all men are rapists? rly? they can’t control themselves? >__>;; I dun think he speaks for all MRAs or ANY self IDed MRAs tho… I mean they don’t think of themselves as rapists, or animals, nor do they want the women in their lives to be raped either… I presume :] (and yeah yeah, straw feminism and all, you just know it’s coming >_> *sets up the big straw feminist* hmmm should prolly put the rodeo cat hat on it… Now I want to put up a straw feminist one day… like a Christmas tree… and hang stuff off of it.. like those quotes that David debunked xD )
What is with all this fucking victim-blaming? Do gay people deserve to be attacked for wearing gay pride shirts? Do attractive men deserve to be raped for not wearing shirts outside in public? Is it okay for an adult to have sex with a young, promiscuous teenager? Obviously, the answer is no. So why is it okay to rape a woman for being “slutty?” And what entails “sluttiness,” anyway? Wearing a tank-top on a hot summer day and having large breasts? Short-shorts? Mini-skirts?
It is ALWAYS the attacker’s fault, regardless of what the victim was wearing or what their personality is. The attacker should have enough sense to know what’s legal and illegal. If he/she can’t just ignore the “slut,” then they need mental help.
So if “slut” actually means “will have sex with ANY man ANY time for ANY reason” how many ACTUAL sluts does he think are out there? I have never met one. “Streetwalker” (which he mentions later) doesn’t actually refer to sluts – it refers to whores. Who will absolutely NOT have sex with “any man any time” because a) they do get to turn down customers (even if that doesn’t always work out so well) and b) the REASON is that they get PAID MONEY. So, no money no sex.
So how exactly does one even impersonate a slut if sluts don’t actually exist? I’m confused.
@Arielle that’s the thing also 😐 As if ppl can control for what makes OTHER ppl do things, or why OTHER ppl target ppl o_O (esp when ppl make the “they’re uncontrollable ‘psychopaths’!” argument… yet we can divine what THEIR reasoning or type are? o_O I’ve been stalked and harassed by Asianphiles… so I suppose I should just shed my skin? xD I was literally chased by a guy trying to assault me once in the winter w/ a long coat and boots… should have been even longer I guess e_e
Mind reading and laser beam eyes should come standard on every woman xD
Quick, somebody propose this at the next Feminist Conspiracy meeting! I hope we have enough skill points saved up >_>
‘The goods’? That’s my fucking body. It’s not for you.
Question about the context of “homeless native chick.” Native to what? Are homeless immigrants on the table, or native chicks are ok to rape if you find them properly sheltered? I supposw the indiginous ladies of wherever the blogger is from appreciate the reprieve but it seems like an odd distinction.
Sometimes I try to talk to guys about the threat of rape being used as a form of control over women’s actions, and they never quite get it. Posts like these are great for illustrating the idea. I’d like.to see one of these guys copy the Rebolution Modesty Survey: have a large group of women submit “do I deserve it if…” questions then make a survey and let the MRAs answer and even submit comments. Then everyone has a place to go to see how “easy” it would be for women to avoid rape by following the simple and clear guidelines that the survey will totes provide 😛
This may be from one of the more extreme sites, but I’ve seen the same sentiment in numerous posts and comments on The Spearhead. And there’s been TONS of commentary in the MRA community about the SlutWalks; it really pisses these guys off. I guess it’s because it gets right to the heart of the standard MRA attitude toward rape: it’s a useful threat to hang over women’s heads to keep them in line, and they love being able to declare that women who upset them deserve to be raped. Take that power away from them by saying, “No, actually no one deserves to be raped,” and they get all pouty.
Like when NWO was on here a week or so ago, trying to get women here to “admit” that they sometimes dress up to look attractive to men. Because if we do, apparently we have to have sex with every man we meet (but especially NWO) and allow men to rape us, or else we’re being “hypocrites.”
@Shaenon it is rly a “protection money” thing isn’t it? : “it’s a dangerous neighbourhood, if you don’t do what we say, I can’t be responsible for what happens to you *smashes a shelf*”
Not to say that the ppl saying it are like that.. but the using “threat of rape by “others” as behavioural control” :
Ami. you are exactly right – it is a protection racket. My father has been phrasing it that way since I was about eight years old.
So let me get this straight, the concept of implied consent applies based on what a person wears?
And what constitutes slutty clothes?
This? but this is something that was considered risque in the 1920s. Not now.
But wait, in the 1950s, this would be considered completely inappropriate and dare I say slutty. Now it is perfectly normal and business appropriate.
Does it mean a woman in a bathing suit has given implied consent? She is not wearing full clothing after all.
And what about men? If a man is in a pair of shorts-is it okay for him to be raped by other sex? Or just wearing something like this? At what point does coverage of skin mean that a person has definitely not given even the merest hint of consent?
What about little old ladies in nursing homes? Some of them escape and are wearing nightgowns when they do-are they inviting rape? After all, nightgowns are not appropriate street wear.
Ugh, the level of fail in this is just disgusting and do not get me started on the idea that wearing a short skirt means anyone has given consent to rape.
@Spearhafoc, I’ll second that, though I am mild to moderate aspie on social cues but more severe on sensory and compulsive issues (on really bad days, I eat only toast or unsweetened cereals and drink only milk or water)
It really isn’t that hard to not go around raping people, even if you have a hard time reading social cues. Shit, I’m bisexual and kinky and have never felt an overwhelming urge to rape any of the attractive people I see. I walked past an attractive woman on my way to get groceries today. She was wearing a tank top and shorts, yet, somehow, I did not hurl myself at her all and try to grope her, nor did I particularly feel an urge to sexually assault her. Ditto for the guy in the tight t-shirt I saw at the grocery store. For most people, they want their partners to be consenting and pleased about the experience, and they only need to learn a few details about how to negotiate these things in certain situations and they do not have big problems not sexually assaulting every attractive person they see. Violent rapey people like Third Edge and those that make excused for them are the problem, not everyone else.
I posted a comment about what is slutty wear? And how does one keep up? (In the 1920s women wore miniskirted dresses. In the 1950s that was considered beyond the pale. Then ten years later perfectly okay again.)
Since I have not been part of a slutwalk, do little old ladies ever come along? They should because it shows that no matter what age, no means no.
@PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth I remember reading a letter in the Toronto Star when the first SlutWalk happened, that was from a 70 y/o woman who walked w/ her husband, so they do come along :3
So I would LOVE to see this guy have to make that claim on little old ladies.
So I would LOVE to see this guy have to make that claim on little old ladies who should show up en masse for this.
I know some awesome little old ladies who would give him a piece of their mind, and then some.
What a douchebag.
Duh. what an idiot.
But the slutwalkers should be happy, right? this is the kind of reaction they want, the kind of reaction that fuels the movement. Add a few real rapes and the slutwalks can continue in all their glory. It already makes for a good blog post.
Ugh. So many really willfully ignorant points. Where to start?
Funny, but when I was raped, I was wearing jeans, a really ugly long-sleeved shirt, and sensible shoes.
I would say that the most popular rape outfit I see from my work with people who have been raped is something like sweatpants and a baggy T-shirt. Or athletic pants and a sweater. Totally “asking for it,” right?
Rape has nothing to do with how women dress, and everything to do with how people are taught to view others. A person who thinks of women’s (or men’s, for that matter) bodies as commodities and public domain (to be commented on and touched without invitation), or has no respect or regard for others’ feelings, wants, and autonomy, is — despite hir personal proclivity toward violence — fully supporting rape culture. It’s this need to classify certain clothing as “slutty” or judge certain people as “asking for it” that is the primary problem, I think. The more a person is successful at dehumanizing others, the easier it is for hir to do violence to them, in small or big ways.
Obviously, the brain donor who writes Third Edge seems to have a very low opinion of both men and women, as well as a tenuous grasp on reality. I’m almost afraid to ask whether he goes around raping people who aren’t sufficiently covered up. I’m guessing, however, that the answer is no. If he does, it would be because he’s a rapist who rapes people, and not because the sight of partially unclad bodies demands it.
This is something else I was thinking about b/c this is also something rly important to me, and I hate this attitude in our society (and something else related to the f-ed upness of hockey culture in Canada)… the victim blaming/shaming culture around rape and the idea of rape as punishment and that ppl “deserve” rape is also a major part of why ppl in our society are so tolerant w/ prison rape -_-;;
I mean we see it in TV shows all the time, the hero cops threatening perps w/ prison rape in the same way “if you don’t tell me what I want to know, you’ll be in jail and I can’t control what ppl do to you”… and we’re supposed to CHEER ON these heroes (whenever cops do this on TV I just headdesk) and IRL, with all the prison rape jokes ppl make… and when you call ppl out on it,it’s the same as why ppl are okay w/ doing it on TV, or if you read the comments in newspapers when somebody goes to jail… it’s OKAY b/c he or she chose to commit crimes, it’s OKAY b/c they “deserve” it, it’s OKAY b/c they did something bad… it’s part of the punishment >:| (plus there’s usually a nice helping of homophobia there too) It’s OKAY b/c “you shouldn’t have committed a crime in the first place” (sound familiar?) Prison rape victims are victims too, and they’re NO LESS victims just b/c of what they’ve done, or what you thought they should have done, or shouldn’t have done… and as usual, we act like the RAPISTS just kinda are… they’re uncontrollable animals that are convenient for us to use as threats and leverage and punishment >:O
And it’s NOT okay >:O And nobody DESERVES rape. And rape is not and should never be used as “punishment” or a “threat” to get what we want >:O And so this is an example of how something RLY important to so many ppl to fight is also srsly affected by victim blaming and seeing rape as punishment >:|
The other thing I was thinking of is the case of David Frost, the sports agent who recruited many talented junior hockey players and allegedly raped them and forced them to have sex with him, each other, and girls (and forced the girls too). >:O The problem was that b/c he was such a hero to the community, nobody would testify against him, and even some of his victims were too scared to b/c of the victim shaming attitudes and him being a hero and also the implication that admitting that would be admitting you’re gay. -_-;
The girls were not added by the Crown as complainants b/c they thought it would hurt their case, but they DID testify against him and what happened, but they got ripped to shred on cross for being sluts, for being “puck bunnies” (i.e. hockey groupies) and for wanting some of the sex (with the boys). The victim blaming and slut shaming to discredit them WORKED and Frost was found Not Guilty of raping THE BOYS UNDER HIS TRUST >:O So there’s another case where slut shaming, victim blaming, etc etc can have an even bigger impact than ppl may think >:| These attitudes and myths and LIES hurt us ALL, and it has lasting REAL effects that harm real people when we go along w/ it, when we perpetrate it and when we perpetuate it. >:O
I’m getting really tired of these assholes who claim to speak for all men, especially when they assume that all men are just as big assholes as they.
I call utter bullshit shenanigans on this asshole. I realize that I really shouldn’t be surprised that there are people out there who actually feel this way but… damn. I am beyond shocked and horrified. Funny thing, when I was sexually assaulted I was wearing jeans and a T-shirt. Huh my bad I guess I didn’t realize that short sleeves were so enticing. /sarcasm
As for guys supporting SlutWalk, my bf told me to get the dates for the one in our area so that he can come with me. But apparently this means he is not a “real man” or whatever. Ok before I devolve into even more incoherent rage, I’m just going to leave this here because I feel like it says exactly what I mean.
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h95-IL3C-Z8&w=640&h=390%5D
Eactly, CB… Seriously. I mean, apart from all the vile things they say about women, they are saying that men are just animalistic beasts that go into rape mode every time a lady shows a bit of skin. Heres the thing: if a woman were walking naked down the street, she still doesn’t “deserve” to be raped. Also anybody who talks about having to “endure the occasional rape,” as if it were no more than an uncomfortable stare or a catcall.. ugh…