Great post by Ozymandias on her blog on the subject of “Who cares about men’s rights?” (Answer, Ozymandias, for one.) She offers a devastating critique of the Men’s Rights Movement and a critique of feminism I think I half-agree with as well. (She critiques feminists for not caring enough about men’s issues and responding to them with “but what about the menz” mockery; I think she’s got a point, but the fact is that lots of feminists do in fact work on behalf of men and men’s issues, from feminists involved in fighting for men and women falsely accused of sex crimes to feminist shelter workers who work on a regular basis to help male victims of abuse.)
Anyway, you should pop on over and read it.
It’s being discussed all over Reddit as well.
The post also inspired a debate on the old “chicks only want to date jerks” thing, which she’s broken out into a separate post.
EDITED TO ADD: And now The Spearhead has noticed the post.
“Hey Kirbywarp, in case ya didn’t know if a man diddles a little boy or a woman diddles a little girl that means their either gay, lebian, bi or whatever letter you want to attach to your all inclusive hate movement.”
You mean John Barrowman has been faking it all this time? Damn. (Bonus photo of John in a kilt!)
Bisexuals are all pedos? Nonsense! How can we be pedos when we don’t exist?
“Is it where a man doesn’t have the right to a living child?”
John Barrowman and Gareth David-Lloyd with fairy wings on
They’re.
I’d have to quote your posts in full. It takes up too much room, quite frankly.
Speaking of women in STEM, this is an interesting article: http://contexts.org/articles/spring-2011/what-gender-is-science/
Molly – Oooh. That just brightened my day. SO EXCITED for new Torchwood!
“I do have a very dark sense of humor, though, which many people don’t find funny and I apologize for offending Hippideima and to anyone else I offended.”
Thatk you, Ozymandias. I truly appreciate that.
NWO, you’ve been repeatedly corrected on several points, yet you continue spouting the same bullshit. I’m tired of pointing out where you are wrong. You just come back with the same shit over and over again. I’m done trying to engage you. From now on, you get nothing but mockery from me, which is all you deserve.
I know, you think that’s all you’ve gotten here. But amidst the mockery and contempt, people have repeatedly tried to set you straight. It’s time you do some work for a change: read back over previous threads if you don’t believe me. I know you won’t, because you are the laziest troll in existence. You don’t even use Google to check easily disprovable/verifiable claims.
Based on your record here, I can only conclude that you are 1) willfully obtuse; 2) dishonest; 3) lazy; or 4) all of the above. Right now, my money is on 4.
Really? That’s a serious violation of the First Amendment! I’m surprised it’s been allowed to stand 40 years. Conversely, I’m surprised Boston University hasn’t been cited, since I certainly didn’t get anything like that when I went to college.
Incidentally, which section of Title IX requires this? I didn’t see it there.
NWO:
“Hey Kirbywarp, in case ya didn’t know if a man diddles a little boy or a woman diddles a little girl that means their either gay, lebian, bi or whatever letter you want to attach to your all inclusive hate movement. NAMBLA, NAWGLA, and butterfly kisses are proponenets of legalized pedophelia and guess what? They’re gays, lesbians and bi, all your faction whom you love and support.”
First, read this, or at least the first three paragraphs, specifically where it states that homosexuality and pedophilia are not comparable. The first is an attraction to the same gender (as opposed to the opposite gender), the latter is an attraction to youth (to put it lightly).
Second, think of it this way. Being a straight man, are you sexually attracted to prebubecent girls? Hopefully the answer is no, and your reasons are likely very similar to the reasons why gay men aren’t attracted to young boys. Sexual orientation and pedophilia are two very different things, and its a common tactic of homophobes to try and conflate the two (at least when the target is gay).
Grah, why do I bother? It’s not like you’re gonna read the link, let alone my response.. You’ll probably just wait a couple pages before bleating out “Ha! Didn’t have an answer for that one, did you?”
What Ozy said in her post is exactly what I’m after too.
I got my ears pierced the first time in 2006 (the day I went from never to full-time, have never been part-time), and I probably didn’t ‘pass’ as a girl then (you know, the no breasts at all thing), but they didn’t mind.
I heard of the “gay” ear thing, but couldn’t remember which it was, or bother.
I dyed my hair back 8 years ago in a blue-black, and 5 years ago I added blonde streaks. I didn’t maintain the color in any kind of way, and didn’t dye my hair again. I’d want pink if it existed in permanent color, with no or very little damage to hair. I can’t even find temporary pink now though, because I have no idea where to look for it.
I hung around counter-culture people who didn’t mind my having 3 feet long hair, but they still thought it was part of my quirkyness as opposed to just “there”, like now.
Schala, this is what I use for my pink streak. It is very gentle and doesn’t damage hair. However, it does require regular maintenance. I touch up my hair color every three-six weeks.
http://www.manicpanic.com/besthaircolor/hothotpink.html
Special Effect is supposed to be longer-lasting than Manic Panic, though it’s still only semi-permanent.
http://www.specialeffectsusa.com/hair_dye.html
I have also heard good things about Elumen, which is apparently salon-quality.
http://store.hello-gorgeous.net/goelcopipk6.html
Is it AA that demands a percentage of women employees in high positions.
I do what now? xD I need to phone up Alex Anthopoulos and ask him if he’s doing that too XD
I DEMAND A PERCENTAGE OF WOMEN EMPLOYEES IN HIGH POSITIONS!
^
o_o Looks like he was right…
So who here wants a high position? :] I have a few CEO spots available… and can arrange a few assassinations for those that want something more specific… like president of a hockey club… or leader of some countries xD
@Kirby by his logic, being okay with straight ppl is supporting all rape and abuse with opposite gender victims and perps o_O;; (ironically he believes WE think that, even tho amusingly he’s the one implying it xD ) Mind you, given what he said before, he also has a VERY narrow definition of straight xD (watch the explosions from him from this xD )
Objectively speaking though, the whole comedy = tragedy + time statute of limitations is probably about up on Nazi jokes. For like, a couple of decades now.
I find it weird when shampoo count their durability in washing, and THEN translate that to days/weeks, by assuming 1 wash/day.
Because I’m not sure how I will be able to count my 14-21 days/wash, as I’m almost certain it doesn’t make it last 14 to 21 times longer (it probably, imo, fades outside washing, too).
I let regrowth usually, even if they happen to have my natural hair color (brown+blonde+red, which reflects copper in the sun) clash with the dye (like the black dye). I tend to not favor putting more maintenance to my hair, save brushing it or untangling the occasional knot…and more because I lazily do it (finger comb) while doing other stuff (on my computer chair, or in the car, like a nervous habit).
My hair is blonde obv xD Used to be just blonde, but decided to add the black “reverse skunk” thing at the back xD Before that, briefly it was like a light brown, and before that it was various shades of red in HS (the HK popstar red, not the manic panic type of red xD ) I sometimes want to cut my hair shorter and get purple in my hair to look like Freefall (Gen13) but I think I’d miss the long blonde and looking like Supergirl xD besides, I feel like blonde Asian is v me :]
@Schala I’m like that too xD I dun rly do much than brush it after shower.. sometimes I flatten it cuz I’m an Asian person who apparently has wavy hair (which I find cool cuz I look like Taylor Swift xD )… but I do that a lot too w/ the habit of finger combing my hair when I’m in the car and stuff xD I’m doing it now actually o_o;; I do it while driving a LOT xD
Schala shampooing less frequently most likely make semi-permanent color last at least a few weeks longer, though alas not 14 times longer. In my experience, a lot of fading comes from exposure to the elements. I have a layered style, so the ends of my hair get the most sun and wind, and they fade much faster than the rest of the shaft.
Hiya Smith,
Sorry I didn’t see your post.. Well, sorry isn’t quite the right word. I’m setting the bar by asking you what mra’s are actually like? Really? How is it fallacious to say “here is evidence that MRAs are bad people, where is your evidence that says they are not?” How is it fallacious to say that the default position to take is the one for which evidence has already been presented? MRAs aren’t like the ones on the Spear Head? Those are fringes? Then where are the moderates? How is that an unfair question? Do you want the default position to be that MRAs are not wacky? I present to you the comments David has been quoting, as well as some rather unwholesome posts I have read myself. You want to say these are fringe groups? Then show me non fringe groups!
Also, your link is absolutely irrelevant to this discussion (assuming you want to have one in the first place). Why should I care what other people have said/done to you, or what you think others have said/done to you? If you’re talking to me, you’re talking to me, not all the people who were big meanies to you in the past. In short, put up or shut up. Oh wait, thats right… “I. Will. Never. Shut. Up.”
The Spearhead has now noticed Ozy’s post:
http://www.the-spearhead.com/2011/06/11/feminist-weltschmerz/
Just saw this xD Isn’t he adorable? XD I like how ppl are being so great about this too :3
why do I feel like somebody is screaming in anger right now and about to use this as an example of the evil that feminism is trying to perpetrate xD
I love how, according to the Spearhead, Ozy doesn’t really understand feminism. I lol’d.
I did read Ozymandias’ post (have to say, love that screen name!), but was too rushed to respond until now.
I think that there are many coalition efforts going on at all levels between a number of social justice groups that are working together — the term coalition politics comes, as far as I know, from Bernice Johnson Reagon’s brilliant speech that has been reprinted since:
http://shewhostumbles.wordpress.com/2008/01/12/bernice-johnson-reagon-coalition-politics-turning-the-century/
These are the sorts of efforts that one probably doesn’t hear much about if one isn’t involved at the grassroots level–like Ami’s examples.
I had the sense in some of the statements about feminists “not caring” about men’s rights that there was a bit too much extrapolation from events that do happen online (i.e. men coming onto feminist blogs and derailing very specific discussions, and women’s respones to it) to social justice work in general. I’d also point out that there are a lot of documented examples of racism among white feminists, transphobia among many cis feminists (especially a generation of radical feminists), homophobia among straight feminists, and ongoing problems with ableism in many feminist groups. I would personally say much more work needs to be done in those areas than “men’s rights” coalition work although a lot depends on just what men we’re talking about . (Insert Old Long Ranger Joke: “What do you mean we, white man?”)
Those who know the various men’s rights groups better–are there any figures who are African American? Or from any ethnic group other than white? Do the MRA speakers and figures include any men who are open about their disabilities? (I already assume from the little I’ve seen on Manboobz and from our representative Mendudez that there are no gay men).
So, yes, if someone is talking generally about men’s rights, but not showing much awareness of the intersectional theories that many in other social justice goups are struggling with, then I’m not going to be too impressed with their oppression (self-described). If they are not willing to talk about the privilege they have as well as the oppression they face, then ditto.
Just as I am not obliged to smile and greet every man on the street, I’m not obliged wot spend the finite amount of time and energy I have working on what somebody else claims is the most important issue.
And in terms of percentage of men goin to college–I’d really like to see a breakdown in terms of demographics, and for people to take into account that on average in the US women need a college degree to earn what men do with a high school degree. Note: on average.
You (generic you) have to work on your own liberation–it’s not something somebody else can give you although allies, and coalition work, are often the best way to operate.
I did notice that too. Also they noted that feminist sites are all loving the post too, but we just don’t understand feminism xD
The comments on that Spearhead post are gold. The speculation is pretty fantastic, especially considering that some of them actually went and checked out the Crushing Venting Engine of Doom and still had all sorts of out-there shit to say.
Uhg, okay, I read further down in to the comments and it just got upsetting, ranging from weird-ass speculations about her age, drinking habits, and eating habits. Creeepy. Also a lot of, “yeah, women peak and 19 and aren’t worth it by the time they’re 22.” And one particularly…interesting…post about how doing drugs and having lots of sex ruins female bodies but doesn’t affect male bodies at all.
And also a lot of “MRA shaming by claiming we can’t get laid but MRAs get laid all the time!” which is funny considering how many MRA posts talk about The Problem of Women Not Wanting to Fuck Them.”
When someone started butchering evolutionary theory, I just couldn’t take it anymore and gave up.
(Mandolin, 9:23am) “For a long time, I’ve thought there needs to be an MRM led by male feminists. […] The guys I’ve talked to about it (the first three, if I recall) say they really don’t have time to formally take on the mantle of something like that. But hopefully eventually some effort like it (I know there have been several) will take off and really establish a thoughtful, intelligent men’s rights movement.”
And then some nut case will shoot one of them.
I don’t think time is the only consideration for guys like Hugo not wanting to step up. Any serious, concentrated male response to the current MRM is not going to be cowed by a shitstorm of comments postings. Things may get real-life ugly.
I couldn’t comment over there, because Blogger sucks and should be destroyed. So I’m commenting here instead.
Some idiot said:
So, basically you want to appropriate and colonize the MRM.
Even if that were true… so fucking what?
Face it, guys, you blew it. You took a perfectly legitimate set of issues, then let your movement get infested with misogynists, racists, anti-semites, PUA’s, rape and abuse apologists, and the ever-popular conspiracy nuts. You dug your own grave, so lie in it.
If you were even the least bit sincere about the issues men face, you’d be happy to let a bunch of COMPETENT people take over, and maybe accomplish something. Instead you’re whining because you feel
threatened that the very people you considered to be your inferiors might actually be the ones who will succeed where you have FAILED. It’s just killing you to imagine that all the kudos and credit are going to go to the people you hate the most.
Burn, suckers.