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Abortion, men's rights, and that asshole in New Mexico

Here's where all the troubles begin

As SallyStrange has pointed out in the comments here, quite a few MRAs seem to have a bad case of “womb envy” – or, more specifically, “abortion envy.” That is, they envy the ability of women to abort fetuses that they – the guys, as sperm providers — have had a part in creating. And since they don’t get final say in whether or not the woman in the equation gets an abortion, many of these guys claim they should have the right to a “paper abortion” – that is, to wash their hands financially of the baby once it is born.

But for every MRA demanding their own right to an abortion, there’s another MRA who thinks abortion is an unmitigated evil, which in essence means that they think pregnant women should be forced to give birth to babies they don’t want. The guy behind The Life Zone evidently thinks this way. And so does one New Mexican pro-lifer named Greg Fultz, who has launched a bizarre campaign designed to shame the woman who aborted what he thinks of as “his” baby – the highlight of which is a giant billboard depicting him holding what looks like the blackened carcass of a baby under the headline “This Would Have Been a Picture Of My 2-Month Old Baby If The Mother Had Decided To NOT KILL Our Child!”

I’ve been meaning to write about the Fultz thing for some time, but haven’t, because frankly the whole thing makes me depressed.  Over the past day or so three separate Man Boobz readers have brought the subject up, so I figure it’s time to deal with the subject. My solution? I’m going to punt, and rather than post about it specifically I’m just going to point you to an excellent, and nicely sarcastic, post on the subject from Jill on Feministe.

Since Jill wrote that post, Fultz has been ordered by a judge to take the billboard down or face jail; he says he won’t. Details here.

NOTE: I originally ended this post with a 1200 word dissertation spelling out my take on abortion. But reading it back over again I realized that many of the points I made in it had already been made, in many cases more deftly, by various commenters in yesterday’s 800-plus comment thread (which actually stayed on the topic for the first several hundred comments, until more or less everything that needed to be said on the subject had been said). The tl;dr summary: her body, her choice. “Paper abortions” only work if the government is willing to step in to make up for the loss of child support, and that isn’t going to happen in the US any time soon. (And I don’t see many MRAs calling for increased support for single moms.)

So instead of abortion, let’s talk about Fultz. What a dick.

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Holly
10 years ago

Also, he’s oppressed because he only makes… more than me.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Spearhafoc, those vintage pics are outstanding! I love vintage. Was that coat with giant trailing sleeves Dior?

Johnny Pez
10 years ago

Okay, who else is squicked at the thought that Slavey gets off on our insults?

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

-_-

*raises hand* And since he hasn’t yet shown he doesn’t, then he obviously does.

zombie rotten mcdonald
10 years ago

I miss the Slaver’s old days, when he would end each comment with some passive-aggressive “Oh sorry for being a bad slave” obsequiousness.

If he ever finds a good Dom, he’ll learn to follow that up with “Mistress”.

theLaplaceDemon
theLaplaceDemon
10 years ago

Johnny – I much prefer the idea that he’s just an inflammatory asshole because people insulting him gets him off then the idea that he actually earnestly believes everything he says.

zombie rotten mcdonald
10 years ago

Okay, who else is squicked at the thought that Slavey gets off on our insults?

well, given my last comment, apparently not ME.

But then, Zombie you know.

zombie rotten mcdonald
10 years ago

idea that he actually earnestly believes everything he says.

yeah, I doubt he believes it too. The FUNNY part, is that he apparently thinks his middle-school level logic traps are SO CONFOUNDING AND IMPOSSIBLE TO REFUTE.

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

Did your life begin at the instant of conception?

Shouldn’t he answer that and have to prove his answer FIRST before nebody else answers? o_O;;

It’s kinda like the whole “prove there’s no god” thing… he’s the one positing a fact, and he basically is saying nebody who doesn’t answer confirming the fact is not answering… so it should be on him to prove it right? o_O;;

I like the whole existence thing.. if I my existence wasn’t a zygote, then I dun exist now? My existence wasn’t presumably my parents or their sperm and eggs either right? >_> Or did I exist before that? o_o;;

As I said there’s tons of ppl out there who would not be here now if their mother had not gotten an abortion earlier in her life… by NWO’s logic he is endorsing their “murder” xD (and if he wants to dispute this, I think this could get VERY amusing as he starts splitting hairs about how his definition of causal existence is this but not that and not that and DAMMIT YOU PPL ALL SUCK AND I HATE YOU ALL AND I AM GOING TO SCREAM INSULTS WHY AM I ALWAYS THE ONE ANSWERING EVERYTHING DAMMIT AMI YOU AND YOUR XDS I DREAM OF THEM NWOO! I MEAN NOWWWW SEE WHAT YOU’VE DONE!! xDDDD <– that smiley is me and not hypothetical him being dosed with Ami gas xD )

I spayed my cat a while back… I murdered a million generations of future cats ):

Holly
10 years ago

Aw, I’d throw him a bone. Slavey, you’ve been a bad, bad, naughty boy. That’s right, kneel in front of me, you little piece of filth. I don’t care if you’re just in front of the computer, you’re in front of me and you will kneel.

Now hit yourself. In the face. Harder than that. Oh, I know you can do harder than that. You can take it. You wimp. That won’t even leave a mark.

Now the balls.

Now get your checkbook. A worm like you doesn’t deserve to have money. Give it up to Mistress and maybe I’ll decide to let you hit yourself again, if you’re lucky. If you earn it.

I want you to write the biggest check you can–more than you can afford, because this should hurt you, shouldn’t it? You should be eating ramen to be a good slave, to be in my servitude. Make it out to:

Planned Parenthood Federation of America, Inc
Attn: Donations
434 West 33rd Street
New York, NY 10001

That’s a good boy.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

Aww Holly, you’re such a kind and generous person… I mean mistress…

katz
10 years ago

Generally, I think it’s impossible to make a test for self-awareness because, from the outside, it’s impossible to tell the difference between being self-aware and appearing self-aware. Of course, not everyone thinks there’s a difference.

Spearhafoc
10 years ago

Was that coat with giant trailing sleeves Dior?

The one at the top of the page? I think that’s a shawl the same fabric as the dress, not sleeves.

The caption on the site just says,

“Dovima – Harper’s Bazaar 1950’s
Photo by Richard Avedon”

No designer listed, I’m afraid.

sarahejones
10 years ago

Ugh. I thought we’d already covered NWO’s ridiculous questions 🙁

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Color me squicked at Slavey getting off on the mockery.

Damn, Holly… I mean mistress… I almost kneeled. Well done.

zombie rotten mcdonald
10 years ago

Color me squicked at Slavey getting off on the mockery.

well, he HAS been in his bunk for some time now…..

Seraph
Seraph
10 years ago

Notice how completely NWOSlave eliminates women from the picture. Life begins at conception, and has nothing to do with nine months of hard, potentially dangerous work by a woman. Heck, even the fetus is named “Johnny”. Notice how it’s always the the precious Son and Heir being killed. Would it matter less if it it was Jenny instead of Johnny?

Spearhafoc
10 years ago

well, he HAS been in his bunk for some time now…..

Yeah, and I got a bunch of André Courrèges’ 60’s stuff that looks like it comes from the future. Come on Slavey, get crackin’!

Kave
Kave
10 years ago

I am quite willing and able to mock NWOslave in a way that rocks his world verbally in a public forum but I think Holly already did that.

Great public service Holly!

Skyal
Skyal
10 years ago

So the abortion topic really hits home right now, seeing as I’m nearly 9 weeks into an unplanned pregnancy. We have 3 kids, hubs only ever wanted 1 or maybe 2 & after nearly dying last year, really, really doesn’t want another baby. I offered to have an abortion. I even meant it at the the time, but I’ve had a couple weeks to think and despite being pro-choice, for me, right now, I can’t do it. Especially since I’ve had at least 10 losses.

I desperately wanted a 4th baby, a last chance at a girl and if I went through with it, I’d always wonder. Hubs, being a great person, has left the decision entirely up to me because he knows that if he tried to pressure me into one, I’d probably end up resenting him. If it does end up being a girl, I have a feeling he’s going to be relieved. And I know he’ll love this baby and have some awesome times with him/her.

So, I guess I’m one of those evil women who is forcing a man to be a parent when he really doesn’t want to.

Kave
Kave
10 years ago

Enter: NWOslave sometime in the next day pretending to yawn after his backbreaking day at the office/coal mine:

“Whatever he would say”

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
10 years ago

Holly, you rock!

Thank you for all the lovely photos, Spearhafoc! I really like the wedding veil dress.

Kave
Kave
10 years ago

Skyal

I might be the first the read your post, I hope the best for you and your family.

Spearhafoc
10 years ago

Why is he even on the Internet at all? Shouldn’t he be off the grid to avoid detection from the dreaded Rothchilds (not to be confused with the Rothschild’s)?

zombie rotten mcdonald
10 years ago

Skyal, sounds like you are taking full advantage of the ‘choice’ part of pro-choice.

I might recommend talking it over a bit more with the hubbs. Just get the feeling s all completely out in the open.

And best of luck what ever your family decides.

zombie rotten mcdonald
10 years ago

spearhafoc, after that comment someone made a couple of days ago, I will never be able to read ANYTHING about the Rothschilds ever again without thinking of septic sucking.

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

*big gigantic hugs to Skyal* ):

Holly
10 years ago

Skyal – Pro-choice means choice, you’re not betraying your husband when he let you choose, and I wish you the best of luck with your family.

Johnny Pez
10 years ago

The FUNNY part, is that he apparently thinks his middle-school level logic traps are SO CONFOUNDING AND IMPOSSIBLE TO REFUTE.

Well, it always worked for Captain Kirk.

Holly
10 years ago

Quick, someone ask NWO “what is love?” and if that doesn’t work, try “this statement is false.”

It’ll blow his mind for weeks.

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

And if that doesn’t work there’s always the flying dropkick xD

Holly
10 years ago

It doesn’t matter anyway. He stopped posting right after I wrote him some good spank material. I’d say we’ve got at least 30-60 minutes, depending on his age and, erm, vigorousness, before he has the energy to give good troll again.

zombie rotten mcdonald
10 years ago

Holly, we can start calling him Norman also.

Johnny Pez
10 years ago

So, should we be calling him NWOsub?

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

Or Landru xD

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

“Strange words: children, love. What is love?”

“Love is…when two people are… ”

“Ahh… Yes. The holding. The touching. Dworkin has forbidden this.”

“Well, there goes paradise. “

kristinmh
kristinmh
10 years ago

I just wrote a novel-length post about a miscarriage from my own family history, then realized it was both TMI and tl;dr.

All I really wanted to say was NWOSlave, please direct any woman with whom you have sexual relations to this page so she can make an informed decision about boning you. I personally would not take the risk, since in case of an unwanted pregnancy you might take out a billboard or something, but some ladies like to live dangerously, so whatevs.

Also, Holly? Hawt!

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

Actually this entire discussion about evil AIs in ToS reminds me of the perfect line for NWO…

“Without freedom of choice, there is no creativity. Without creativity, there is no life.”

Who knew Kirk was a feminist? xD

As I said.. NWO = Landru xD

Johnny Pez
10 years ago

There’s a bed with some cuddly dogs curled up on it, and it’s calling to me. Night all.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

“What is love?”
Baby don’t hurt me… Don’t hurt me… No more…

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
10 years ago

NWO isn’t especially hard to figure out.

He’s convinced that he’s special when in reality he barely rises to the level of average. He is utterly ordinary in most every way and below average in many. He isn’t especially bright and lacks intellectual curiosity but has a serious chip on his shoulder about being undereducated. This is why he’s attracted to conspiracy theories. Conspiracy theories enable people who aren’t smart to believe that they’re brilliant. They’re certain that, despite their lack of education, they are the only real thinkers; the only people capable of seeing the truth. And they derive a baseless feeling of superiority from believing themselves to be free and everyone else to be duped. They state their opinions as fact and literally cannot understand the difference between the two.

This explains why, despite arguing for two days that life begins at conception, NWO knows absolutely nothing about human development and doesn’t think that he needs to. On this and the last thread he’s stated that infants don’t have intelligence -demonstrably false- and compared being asleep to having no brain. It’s why being proven wrong about things like Japanese words not being made up and the price of a lap dance being significantly higher than the price of commuter subway trains doesn’t phase him. He cannot process facts. Facts interfere with his entire sense of self.

Since he came on these boards he’s exaggerated the type of work that he does and been called out. He’d been proven definitively wrong about so many things so often that it’s become a joke, and ignores everything that doesn’t support his world view. He’s like someone who lives in the desert and insists there’s no such thing as snow.

I’m sure he’s a sexual masochist who’s using this board for spank material. But he’s also a sad, sad little man and unlike MRAL there’s very little chance that he’ll get better. MRAL is young and less attached to his bullshit.

For NWO, it’s all he has.

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

NWO reminds me of something Dave Perkins, former editor of the sports section of the Toronto Star (now retired) said about how every World Cup, he’d get a deluge of letters, phone calls and emails about the “biased reporting” of the Toronto Star simply by publishing the SCORES of who won and who lost, b/c their country’s team had lost. As Perkins said: “We’re not against you. Reality is against you.” xD

(tho I bet you he thinks this of EVERYBODY, esp us… except me, b/c Ami IS reality >:3 )

zombie rotten mcdonald
10 years ago

@nobinayamu-

he also said zombies don’t exist.

(sniff)

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

*pat pat* He”ll change his tune… Umbrella is moving into his city xD

speedlines
speedlines
10 years ago

So, should we be calling him NWOsub?

Yes. We should.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
10 years ago

Well he’ll be sorry when the zombie apocalypse happens, won’t he? I bet he hasn’t even thought about which mall he wants to use as a fortress.

So sad.

Skyal
Skyal
10 years ago

Thanks for the nice comments everyone. I was mostly just trying to get across the idea that choosing not to have an abortion can be just as complicated as choosing to have one & very seldom has anything to do with screwing men over.

Once an unplanned pregnancy happens, unless both parties happen to be in agreement on what to do, there is no decision which will make everyone happy. It sucks & it’s unfair, but so is life.

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

@Nobinayamu On that… for the Dawn of the Dead remake, the mall they used to film in was the mall across the street from my house (literally) xDDD I guess cuz it was a ghost mall and they were going to raze it for a housing complex neways, it was the perfect place (they blew it up at the end too after everything was done xD ) But for a few weeks it was zombies everywhere and the mall looked more filled and busy than it ever had xD

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
10 years ago

Skyal, like others posters before me, I want to wish you and your family all the best.

Most rational people understand that decisions about what to do in the event of an unplanned pregnancy are not made frivolously or with malice. Zealots may not understand it. People who have never experienced it may not understand it. But most rational people certainly do.

zombie rotten mcdonald
10 years ago

for the Dawn of the Dead remake,

it was supposedly set in Milwaukee, but no Milwaukee ever looked like That.

They did get most of the location references right in the police band voice over at the beginning, at least.