As SallyStrange has pointed out in the comments here, quite a few MRAs seem to have a bad case of “womb envy” – or, more specifically, “abortion envy.” That is, they envy the ability of women to abort fetuses that they – the guys, as sperm providers — have had a part in creating. And since they don’t get final say in whether or not the woman in the equation gets an abortion, many of these guys claim they should have the right to a “paper abortion” – that is, to wash their hands financially of the baby once it is born.
But for every MRA demanding their own right to an abortion, there’s another MRA who thinks abortion is an unmitigated evil, which in essence means that they think pregnant women should be forced to give birth to babies they don’t want. The guy behind The Life Zone evidently thinks this way. And so does one New Mexican pro-lifer named Greg Fultz, who has launched a bizarre campaign designed to shame the woman who aborted what he thinks of as “his” baby – the highlight of which is a giant billboard depicting him holding what looks like the blackened carcass of a baby under the headline “This Would Have Been a Picture Of My 2-Month Old Baby If The Mother Had Decided To NOT KILL Our Child!”
I’ve been meaning to write about the Fultz thing for some time, but haven’t, because frankly the whole thing makes me depressed. Over the past day or so three separate Man Boobz readers have brought the subject up, so I figure it’s time to deal with the subject. My solution? I’m going to punt, and rather than post about it specifically I’m just going to point you to an excellent, and nicely sarcastic, post on the subject from Jill on Feministe.
Since Jill wrote that post, Fultz has been ordered by a judge to take the billboard down or face jail; he says he won’t. Details here.
NOTE: I originally ended this post with a 1200 word dissertation spelling out my take on abortion. But reading it back over again I realized that many of the points I made in it had already been made, in many cases more deftly, by various commenters in yesterday’s 800-plus comment thread (which actually stayed on the topic for the first several hundred comments, until more or less everything that needed to be said on the subject had been said). The tl;dr summary: her body, her choice. “Paper abortions” only work if the government is willing to step in to make up for the loss of child support, and that isn’t going to happen in the US any time soon. (And I don’t see many MRAs calling for increased support for single moms.)
So instead of abortion, let’s talk about Fultz. What a dick.
Seriously, what’s to be gained by rubbing it in men’s (supposedly loved husbands) faces that “the fetus is 100% hers”? Sure, she makes the decision regarding abortion, but the fact is the man is invested and it is biologically half his. What about all the support a husband provides the wife during a pregnancy. Making it all about her (as it should be, but still, it’s a sacrifice), caring for her, emotional encouragement? Chopped liver? And then you fymynysts love to talk about how it’s ALL WYMYN, ALL THE TIME (except when the kid pops out and the man is expected to be suddenly entirely devoted after having no attachment throughout the pregnancy. Idiocy much?)
Well, it would be more inconvenient than getting a splinter, but less inconvenient than having my house burn down 🙂
Why do you suppose that the man in question is a loving husband? Do you think Filet’s boyfriend and Fultz were?
You’d probably hate her, MRAL? You already hate women, so that’s not really a stretch.
I DON’T HATE WOMEN.
Most couples DO in fact make decisions regarding pregnancy together, consult each other, support each other, etc. The 100% hers uterus thing is really only an issue when they disagree in a non-negotiable kinda way. Tie-breaker has to go to someone!
Well, the most common situation is for the husband to be supportive. But appaently they don’t matter because the fymynysts are focused on the fucking freaks like Fultz and the small percntages of emotional abusers.
Ohh, speaking of billboards (all billboards are on topic, right?) who else had all those “the end of the world is coming!” billboards in their city a few weeks back? That was funtimes wasn’t it?
OK I understand the “tie-breaker” concept. I thought about it and don’t have a problem wih that. I just don’t like the “100% hers” concept. Effectively, yes, becase she makes the decisions. But morally, no. I’d rather think of it as, maybe “51% hers”.
YOU DO TOO.
At the very least, you project all your nastiness on to them.
Note, I did NOT say shortcomings, har, har.
Fultz like actions are not the actions of someone who loves their partner. If you really loved your partner, MRAL, and were close to her and really wanted her to be happy, you’d at least be able to understand her reasons for an abortion. She’s not just a uterus there to give you sex and the occasional baby. Being in a relationship means tying your futures together, and understanding that if a baby isn’t right for one of you, it’s not right for both of you. Upset is fine, but hating someone whom you presumably loved over an abortion shows that you actually don’t have that much empathy after all.
Go ahead and be upset if your spouse aborts when you don’t want her to. Fultz is upset over the fact that he can’t control this woman anymore. Think about it – even if they had broken up and she had not miscarried, he could have hounded her for the next 18 years over his parental rights. Yes, he has a right to his child, but I can’t imagine he would have been the perfect father and co-parent.
And men who grieve the loss of a child/potential child usually don’t claim that a miscarriage was actually an abortion; put up billboards harassing their ex; encourage other people to harass their ex… and do all this a *year* after the miscarriage and breakup. A year.
This is all theoretical for me because I don’t really want a family.
The fetus might be equally indebted to both parents for its genetic material, but the pregnancy and the attendant medical risks are 100% the mother’s.
In other “this guy is a creep” news, I forgot about his really colorful history on Twitter: http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474979418806
OK, well then Victoria I assume it goes both ways. If the woman has a baby when the man clearly didn’t want it, is she an insensitive bitch?
MRAL
Where is your Daddy? You’ve stated that you grew up without a father. Were you a virgin birth or did some dude dump you?
As for paper abortions for men I am all for them . However I also know that caring for babies and young children is a full-time job that you do work 24 hours a day.
Mra’s seem to think that taking care of infants involves stuffing a propped bottle in their face a couple of times a day. and toddlers can amuse themselves, neither wakes up multiple times at night or really needs any kind of PARENTING.
I am for men walking away from fetuses they did not wish to conceive. But what about the logistics?
We do not live in a society where a mother can strap her child onto her back and go to work in a rice paddy.
Where will the money and childcare come from?
In my view children should be born only when their parents are able to meet their needs both financially and emotionally. That would be my perfect society. But I live in the real world and understand that someone has to rear the children.
This has lead me to the following conclusion: If you are anti-abortion and pro paper abortion you must also be advocating for full state sponsored daycare, and great welfare for those fetus you so desperately want to live. If you are not fully in support of the above frankly you don’t give a dam about children (who used to be your beloved fetus).
Victoria: “if a baby isn’t right for one of you, it’s not right for both of you.”
But, if “you” are a man, you don’t get to decide.
Holly: A man has a right to reproductive autonomy–he has a right to get a vasectomy, to use condoms, to avoid penis-in-vagina sex, or to be judicious in who he has penis-in-vagina sex with. But his rights end, and become an infringement on women’s rights rather than an extension of his own, where his partner’s body begins.
I will agree with what you say, if you agree that he will not be held responsible for her decisions. Her body, her choice, her responsibility. I thought feminists believe in female agency. Why do they want men to be responsible for the choices women make?
By the way, I am not defending this guy’s character, or any harassment he may have engaged in. However, the message, taken by itself is valid, whether or nothe had: 1) a girlfriend, 2) who got pregnant, and 3)who miscarried, aborted, or gave birth. Not a single one of those things have to be true in order for someone who believes in an idea to promote it on a billboard.
-Jut
Only if she takes out a billboard harassing her ex, lying about him publicly and encouraging other people to harass him.
Kave: “I am for men walking away from fetuses they did not wish to conceive. But what about the logistics?
We do not live in a society where a mother can strap her child onto her back and go to work in a rice paddy.
Where will the money and childcare come from?”
Well, if she does not think she can afford a child, she should just abort, right? I thought that was the whole point: she needs to have the choice. If sh can not handle the consequences of that choice, she should choose something else.
-Jut
My dad is I think in Florida somewhere. I really have no idea. I’ve said, obviously men should not walk away from their child. I’m no longer in favor of Choice 4 Men. However, what should we think of a woman who has a child, CLEARLY against the father’s wishes? Simple question.
Jutgory.
Works for me, but what about all the mra’s who are anti-abortion, pro father paper abortions, and also against tax funded support of those could be abortions?
Again, logistically it just doesn’t make sense. Tell me how this could be solved? Do you prefer the Romanian model or the Guatemalan model? Do you have any ideas that have not yet played out?
swedishfish, I am very sorry that happened…
This guy Fultz belongs in jail. He is a psychotic TURD. Also, I hear tell thru the ‘netz that he has at least one other child with another woman? I wouldn’t be surprised if he balks at paying support for that child. And, he wanted another? EW. I get the impression he just wanted another woman to be part of his ‘stable’ (ok, gagging now.).
NEVER having kids, EVER. Hooray for Community Pharmacy, Planned Parenthood and Durex Avanti condoms! 😀 PRAISE them, big time.
I think it should be legal for the man to sign a document stating that if the woman decides to have the baby instead of getting an abortion IN THE EVENT THAT ABORTION IS A TRUE OPTION she does so with the knowledge that the man cannot be held responsible for the financial costs of the child. This will make the child fully her responsibility and will make MRAs STFU about child support. (You don’t get to see the kid either of course–as far as you’re concerned you’ve had an abortion.)
MRAL
That you can be so easily shifted in your viewpoints is enough for me to say that you need therapy. I’m not engaging you anymore though I do pity you. Not for the eye or the height, but because either you’ll get it together or you’ll be a suicide statistic in the next couple of years. Balls in your court, this board has bent over backwards accommodating your narcissistic thought patterns.
I wasn’t easily shifted, I was presented with a very compelling reason about a day ago to reconsider Choice 4 Men, one I hadn’t run into before. I’m open to change.