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antifeminism kitties men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA the spearhead

The Spearhead on Lady Lit 3: Electric Boogaloo

This baby knows more about contemporary women's fiction than all Spearhead contributors combined. (As does the kitten.)

There are really few things quite so entertaining as watching people as ignorant as a box of pig shit offering their opinions on literature. Especially when the people in question are W.F. Price and his gang of misfit boys at The Spearhead, who are back for yet another take on the whole Women’s Lit question.

At this point I’ve run out of jokes on this particular subject, so I’m just going to let Mr. Price dig his own hole here. Here he is, trying to argue that feminism has made terrible lady writers even terribler.*

[I]t appears that since feminism’s triumph, female achievement in the higher arts has deteriorated substantially. When women no longer have to excel to be read and recognized, but simply have to advertise the fact that they are women to be celebrated for dubious achievements, they won’t put as much effort into producing anything of quality. So the sorry state of women today is a direct result of feminist privilege, which absolves them of all responsibility and deflects any criticism. …

Yes, feminism has wrecked Western womanhood, reducing the young women of today to spoiled brats who can’t take a hint of criticism, and immediately turn to authorities to bolster their self-esteem. No woman can be too fat to be beautiful, too dense to be intelligent, or too dull to be creative. They are all equally super-duper goddesses, before whom men must genuflect and heap up mounds of praise.

Price of course gives no examples to back up any of his, er, “arguments,” and somehow I suspect he hasn’t actually read any fiction written by women beyond an odd title or two he might have been assigned in high school. I wonder if Price could even name a half-dozen living woman novelists without having to resort to Google — excluding JK Rowling, Stephanie Meyer and Jackie Collins (who hasn’t heard of them?) and Harper Lee (who wasn’t assigned To Kill a Mockingbird in high school?).

*I am aware that “terribler” is not a real world.

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zombie rotten mcdonald
10 years ago

(who wasn’t assigned To Kill a Mockingbird in high school?)

ummm….. I wasn’t.

Mandolin
Mandolin
10 years ago

“There is something ineluctably masculine about Tiptree’s writing … his work is analogous to that of Hemingway … that prevailing masculinity about both of them — that preoccupation with questions of courage, with absolute values, with the mysteries and passions of life and death as revealed by extreme physical tests.”

–Robert “Oops” Silverberg

Charlotte
Charlotte
10 years ago

Meg Cabot, Jaqueline Smith, Cate Tiernan, Dorothy Koomson, Phillipa Gregory, Charlaine Harris, Alison Weir!

Do I get a gold star?

P.S From now on I insist everyone refers to me only as Super-Duper Goddess Charlotte. Okay? Ta!

Amnesia
Amnesia
10 years ago

I hereby demand that W.F. Price be referred to as WTF Price.

Bee
Bee
10 years ago

And the fact that a few Spearheadians were able to name a few women authors from centuries ago was seen as ample proof that women were never discriminated against in publishing, nor were they discouraged or prevented from writing and publishing in other ways — nope. Women just don’t want to write. It’s not part of their ladybrain makeup. Their hamsters have other things to do.

The Brontes = See!

(Not to mention the mindblowing discussion at Spearhead about early blues musicians. Sidenote to MRAs: There are actual video series on the subject that would clarify your misunderstandings. It’s actually very difficult to be as misinformed as you are.)

It’s telling also that a lot of Spearhead commenters named Ayn Rand as the one female author they could stomach. Facile, wrong-headed ideas? Check. A moral standard that would reward the selfish, cruel, and vacant and mock the selfless and kind? Check. A lot of gabble-filled pages to fool boring, stupid readers into thinking they’ve really accomplished something once they’ve finished trudging through the boring, stupid mess of a novel? Check.

And of course: If you look at living male novelists and compare their work to what we think of as (male-written) classics today, you’re likely to find that they come up short as well. Mitch Albom can’t hold a candle to E.M. Forster. John Grisham is no Dickens. Tom Clancy is no Shakespeare. But that goes without saying — doesn’t it? That history and scholars and centuries of study can separate out the dross from the treasure, and various writers’ output over centuries will more likely contain some masterpieces than what was written just in the past decade? (Hint: Feminism has nothing to do with any seeming decline.)

ithiliana
10 years ago

Well, finally a spearhead dude has got one thing right–I am a GODDESS and all (men) must praise me.

My bff goddesses and I shall recline here, eating peeled grapes (fun fact, I am actually eating green grapes as I type this comment) and watching our slave boys dance, dance, dance!

Oh, and women writers! (Happens to be one of my specializations–yes, MRA dudes, I get paid MONEY for teaching WOMEN WRITERS AHAHAHAHAH).

Random memory dump of some of my faves because all my books at home are boxed up (FLOOD!FIRE!FOES!AWAKE!, well, a busted bathroom pipe):

Adrienne Rich
Pat Cadigan
Jewelle Gomez
Lois McMaster Bujold
Patricia Briggs
Ilona Andrews
James Tiptree, Jr. (AKA: Alice Sheldon, AKA Racoona Sheldon)
Sarah Monette
All the books by the Brontes except for Jane Eyre and Wuthering Heights (Villette is especially feminist).
Charlotte Perkins Gilman
Denise Levertov
Donna Andrews
Marcia Muller
Charlaine Harris (not just her TB series!)
Joanna Russ, Joanna Russ, Joanna Russ
Judy Grahn
Alice Walker
bell hooks
Trinh T. Minh ha (writer and film maker)
Elizabeth Peters/Barbara Michaels
Ellis Peters/Edith Pargeter
Andre Norton
Viginia Woolf (and yes, Virginia IS a feminist)
Dorothy L. Sayers (who lived at about the same time as Woolf, and wrote feminist essays as well as medieval theory and mystery novels)
N. K. Jemisin
Nisi Shawl
Nnedi Okorafor
E. Nesbitt
Margaret Drabble
Diane Duane

I want to be addressed as Sooper-Dooper Goddess Robin (more powerful with more oooooooooooooooooooooos).

ithiliana
10 years ago

oops, outed myself–yes, in real life i am a robin.

no biggie though, i’m fairly out in fandom.

So online, Goddess Ithiliana; offline, Goddess Robin!

mythago
mythago
10 years ago

Oh yes, the excellence argument. Back in the far-gone day when [group] was discriminated against ever so slightly, only the most sterling, talented and luminous members of [group] were successful – not that they were ever good, mind you, but the bar was so much higher. Now, sadly, any moron from [group] can do well.

Charlotte
Charlotte
10 years ago

Hey, you included dead female authors, that’s cheating!

Mandolin
Mandolin
10 years ago

On the other hand, you included Nisi and Nora, so you win.

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

Let’s take a poll…

who here has ever been arrested for not wanting to read a woman’s work? Raise your hand xD

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

Q2: Who here has ever had somebody arrested just for funsies b/c they were having a bad hair day? xD

I must have missed the last feminist meeting (I hear we wore pink masks and had cyan knives to cut our hands and purple flowery urns to gather and mix the blood! I’m sorry I missed it Dx ) b/c my old personal line to the police commissioner to get guys arrested isn’t working atm : Did we change the number? Or is he busy? Is Riddler on the loose again!? >:

ithiliana
10 years ago

Mythago: yep, as my friends and I used to say, one measure of feminist’s success would be that mediocre women would suceed just as mediocre men always have done!

Ami: We haven’t talked directly, but I do love reading your posts — there’s so much awesome geekery and caring and just poetic fun all rolled up in one!

An an English Professor, I have a license to arrest people for not reading women authors.

Well, maybe not, but I can look over my glasses at them in a professorial manner.

In my last Women Writers course, where I let students write on the work of any woman writer they know/like, there were students who could not in fact remember ever having read a woman’s work (no doubt they did in skool, though, maybe not, this is rural Texas), but on their own? For fun? Nope, couldn’t come up with one.

It was….interesting (nor did they take the class to get to read Women writers–it just fit their schedule and could count as elective or fill a slot on their major requirement).

Plymouth
Plymouth
10 years ago

The other day when this topic first came up I could only think of like 2 female authors I’d read… and then people mentioned a bunch and I was like “oh yeah I read stuff by them too!”

Mostly this is because I *gasp* don’t sort people primarily by gender! Especially people I’ve NEVER EVEN MET. I read books that are good, that friends recommend, that are in styles and genres I like, not because of the genitalia the author possesses. So I’m just not good at remembering that sort of stuff.

Shaenon
10 years ago

Oh, David, you are so behind the times on misogynist conspiracy theories! As one of the regulars informed us recently, To Kill a Mockingbird was secretly written by Truman Capote. According to the Spearhead comments, J.K. Rowling and Agatha Christie didn’t write their own books, either.

There’s an interesting chain of logic the comments follow. Basically, women have never done anything worthwhile in all of history, which proves that they’re stupid and lazy. But historical examples of women who did achieve great things aren’t proof that women can be smart and hard-working; they’re proof that sexism never existed and women have always had it super easy, because otherwise how could a mere woman discover radium or write Wuthering Heights? So women can’t win; if they don’t achieve as much as men, it’s their fault, but if they do, society gets to take credit.

As far as the Spearhead’s collective insight as a literary salon and flashpoint for artistic critique, this comment sums it all up for me:

Jane Austen’s works can never speak to me the same way Ayn Rand’s Fountainhead did. Realizing that To Kill a Mockingbird’s protagonist was a tomboy undid much of my immersion in the novel.

21 upvotes so far.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
10 years ago

Wait, no one on here is a cop? Boooo!

Anyway, about the current crop of women writers…If one only read some of the chick lit that is out there, perhaps. However there are the occasional stories like the Nanny that are just awesome. Same goes for *lowers voice* romance novels.

Oh the horror! However I think everything I ever read in a Jude Deveraux historical novel has been accurate. And Blaze Wyndham was just sexy.

Bother this…I am going to go eat some tacos made by 13.

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

@Shaenon and yet I suspect this won’t help them understand the complaint of some PoCs and women about not seeing themselves represented very much as heroes in TV and other fiction, esp in certain genres xD

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

@Plymouth You DON’T sort ppl you meet by gender!? >:O *drags you off to the re-education centre*

Lady Victoria von Syrus
Lady Victoria von Syrus
10 years ago

Q2: Who here has ever had somebody arrested just for funsies b/c they were having a bad hair day?

I usually try to get in at least one superfluous arrest per month.

As far as living women writers, I know I’ve mentioned some of them before on the first thread, but: Lilith Saintcrow, C.S. Friedman, Sarah Dunant, Anita Diamant, Robin Hobb, Anne Rice and Poppy Z. Brite as a freebie (apparantly, Brite is taking a break from writing to complete his gender transitioning).

The genre of urban fantasy, with the exception of Jim Butcher, is primarily dominated by women writers with female main characters – I already mentioned Lilith Saintcrow, but Kim Harrison and Charlaine Harris are two other big names, along with a long list of mostly female authors I’ve yet to read.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

Oh man… I can’t believe I didn’t remember Agatha Christie! I love anything to do with Poirot, and Miss Marple is such a lovely old woman. *hangs head in shame*

Like any proper mangina, I immediately lump people into two groups, women I worship, and men that I spit upon. I certainly wouldn’t want to go back to man-training… (no Miss Teacher, I’ll be a good boy! A good boy like you wanted!)

vacuumslayer
10 years ago

It’s the fat chicks that really bother these dudes, huh? I notice fat women are mentioned in almost all of these frothy rants.

Dude. If you don’t care for fat women, don’t date them.

vacuumslayer
10 years ago

Also, the idea of choosing literature based on the sex of the author seems bizarre to me. I read what looks intriguing. (This happens to make give my reading material a pretty healthy 50/50 male to female ratio.)In the end, I don’t give a shit about whether an author is male or female.

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

@ithiliana Awww… Ty! :] I think you’re pretty awesome too 😀 (and ty for the compliment about my poetry stuff xD I actually wrote something last night that kinda just came out b/c I was on the poetry kick and also as a kinda response, but what flowed out was rly personal and painful 🙁 but I dun want to share it b/c this is so public : just ppl like you and most everybody else here are reasons i would feel ok doing it :] )

What you said about mediocre women and mediocre men reminds me of something that Globe & Mail baseball writer Jeff Blair once said on the radio about racial equality in baseball, that the great Frank Robinson once said to him that African Americans will know when they’ve gotten equality in baseball not when the undeniable unique talents can get a job or be recognized as great, but when the 27th man on the roster has a chance to be black or latino.

The super brilliant talents are always easy to accept, but when you go down, at some point a lot of ppl become interchangeable, and that’s when we see the biases (subtle or gross) come out (like in baseball, white ppl are considered still by many to have more hustle, to try harder, to have “intangibles” or be a “good clubhouse presence” etc, in hockey it’s Canadian players vs European players or even American ones sometimes) :

zombie rotten mcdonald
10 years ago

who here has ever been arrested for not wanting to read a woman’s work?

I confess that I refuse to read Atlas Shrugged.

zombie rotten mcdonald
10 years ago

(like in baseball, white ppl are considered still by many to have more hustle, to try harder, to have “intangibles” or be a “good clubhouse presence” etc, in hockey it’s Canadian players vs European players or even American ones sometimes)

Ami, do you read Lawyers Guns and Money? Because they had a post that said the same thing last week.

amandajane5
amandajane5
10 years ago

Just a brief run-down of the female authors on my bookshelf (which is enormous and my father disparagingly calls the lending library):

Banana Yoshimoto
Frances Hodgson Burnett
P.L. Travers
Julie Powell
Amanda Marcotte
Audrey Niffeneger
M. M. Kaye
J. K. Rowling
Billie Letts
Susan Cooper
Donna Jo Napoli
Jane Jacobs
Diana Wynne Jones
Mary Stewart
Noel Streatfeild
Rebecca Wells
Helen Fielding
Janet Evanovich
L. M. Montgomery
Amy Tan
Jane Yolen
Suzanne Collins
Anne McCaffery
Eileen Dunlop
E. Nesbit
Pamela Ribon
Mary Norton
Madeleine L’Engle
Jung Chang
Eva Ibbitson
Meg Cabot
Marion Zimmer Bradley
Maeve Binchy
Diane Duane
Sheri S. Tepper
Robin McKinley
Zilpha Keatley Snyder
Pamela Dean
Carol Kendall
Elizabeth Winthrop
Susan Faludi
Charlotte Joko Beck
Gertrude Chandler Warner
Jill Conner Browne
Ursula K. LeGuin
Lois Lowery

This is just me looking at my bookshelves and writing down names. These are the books I have purchased. I’m perfectly willing to do a similar list for the male writers on my bookshelf, but just look at how many that is! Yes, I tend towards YA and fantasy, but even still! About halfway though the list I started getting amazed.

Johnny Pez
10 years ago

Clare Winger Harris
C. L. Moore
Amelia Reynolds Long
Leigh Brackett
Judith Merril
Julian May
D. C. Fontana
Vonda N. McIntyre

NWOslave
NWOslave
10 years ago

A book is good or it sucks. Why you people make such a big deal out of if a man or woman wrote something is ludicrous. And people like ithiliana with her “random memory dump” of 30 female authors, what a joke. Yea, like you didn’t do a search of female writers

The vast majority of people buy a book by reading the general overview on the back. If the book was good and is part of a series they might look at the authors name to find the rest of the series. If the book sucks it gets thrown away after chapter 5. Most people don’t know or care who the author of the book it is they’re reading. What kind of a person reads a book and gives it extra value if it’s written by a woman? Or only reads books written by women?

Than of course you have ithiliana prattling on about her very feminist authors. I guess that automatically makes them a good read. What could they possibly write about? Bad, stupid, violent men and good, smart, enlightened women. Hell any TV sitcom, movie or newspaper article will give ya the same thing. Maybe a revised history lesson where where men systematically abused women; their wives daughters, oh hell just about anyone who was a woman. It doesn’t really matter what a man did he was a fucking oppressor. And of course the women carried on against all odds of the evil men. This knowlege is apparently passed on from vagina to vagina. Yikes what a bunch of self serving tripe.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

NWO:

“Why you people make such a big deal out of if a man or woman wrote something is ludicrous.”

Way to miss the point entirely, friend. We are not. In fact most people here would probably be with you that “A book is good or it sucks.” (within reason, of course, there isn’t a black-or-white quality to books) We’re responding to the notion that all women authors are terrible, or that some MRAs refuse to read anything by a woman strictly because they are a woman. The response is to list a bunch of female authors that some posters have found particualrly good.

The comments here don’t exist in a vacuum, NWO, are you really gonna completely ignore any context when trying to debate them?

katz
10 years ago

The vast majority of people buy a book by reading the general overview on the back.

While standing in the checkout line at the grocery store. Do they have Star Wars novels there?

NWOslave
NWOslave
10 years ago

kirbywarp, Thats exactly the point. Everyone one of you is going online and picking random women autors who more than likely none of you have read. Amandajane5 has a list of women authors thats a novel in itself.

Katz, I’m reading a star wars book right now, I don’t even know who the author is and I don’t care. The book seems decent enough so far, the 7 hours flying/layover to Texas I read it the whole time. Normally I fall asleep instantly as soon as the plane takes off. And ya know what? The star wars books have maybe a hundred different authors and I don’t care if their men or women. Only you and the rest of you ilk do.

katz
10 years ago

Hmmm…

A book is good or it sucks.

False.

And people like ithiliana with her “random memory dump” of 30 female authors, what a joke. Yea, like you didn’t do a search of female writers

Difficult to verify, but probably false. Anyway if it’s her word against his I’ll take ~NWO any day.

The vast majority of people buy a book by reading the general overview on the back.

God, I hope not. Anyway I don’t know anyone who does this.

If the book was good and is part of a series they might look at the authors name to find the rest of the series.

True.

If the book sucks it gets thrown away after chapter 5.

False for most people, I think. Most people I’ve talked to will finish a book even if it’s bad. Of course most people I know like reading.

Most people don’t know or care who the author of the book it is they’re reading.

Indubitably false. Most people at least look at the front cover of the book they’re reading. NWO, however, apparently reads the back and then flips straight to page 1.

Than of course you have ithiliana prattling on about her very feminist authors. I guess that automatically makes them a good read. What could they possibly write about? Bad, stupid, violent men and good, smart, enlightened women. Hell any TV sitcom, movie or newspaper article will give ya the same thing. Maybe a revised history lesson where where men systematically abused women; their wives daughters, oh hell just about anyone who was a woman. It doesn’t really matter what a man did he was a fucking oppressor. And of course the women carried on against all odds of the evil men. This knowlege is apparently passed on from vagina to vagina. Yikes what a bunch of self serving tripe.

Meaningless rant.

Judgment: 1 true, 5 false, 1 unverifiable.

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

@zombie no : Maybe I should! It’s something that pops up a lot in sports discussion and books and articles. I’ve written about it too (the intersection between culture and sports and stuff like that rly interests me a lot xD as well as the business of sports 😀 ) so I think I will want to check that post out :3 Thank you for the recc! :]

Jodi
Jodi
10 years ago

NWO, some of us read. Some of us read a lot.

I have 4 five foot tall book cases, each with five shelves, which are so packed with books that the paperbacks are double shelved (one row on the back of the shelf, a second row on the front of the shelf, and more paperbacks stacked sideways on top of them). I also have a 7 foot long 3 shelf low bookcase (as stuffed full as the tall bookcases) and another large built-in bookcase in my bedroom. There is also a pile of books by my bedside AND boxed books in storage. I’ve read all of these books (and liked them enough to read them more than once…the ones I don’t like or won’t reread, I give away).

It’s pretty easy to come up with at least 30 names of female authors off the top of my head. No googling required.

My guess is that you’re just not that into reading, or you’d already know and understand this.

tofu nutloaf
tofu nutloaf
10 years ago

Yes, knowledge is literally passed on from vagina to vagina. That’s exactly how the lady cabal passes on our secret plans to keep men oppressed. how could you have possibly guessed that?

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

@zombie I can’t seem to find the post 🙁 But I’ve read thru a bunch of their sports stuff and I love their PoV and opinions on the stuff they write about 🙂

Bee
Bee
10 years ago

I haven’t thought about Noel Streatfield since I was 10, but I have lived my entire life under the assumption that she was a grandfatherly looking man. Thanks, amandajane5! I want to buy a buncha Shoe books all of a sudden.

Living female authors who I’ve enjoyed recently*:
Lorrie Moore
Sandra Cisneros
Alice Walker
Maya Angelou
Nicole Krauss
Maude Barlow
Diana Preston
Beryl Bainbridge
Alice Munro
Katherine Dunn
Hanan al-Shaykh
Susan Orlean
Sara Paretsky
Edwidge Danticat
Anne Lamott

*Recently meaning in the past couple years.

NWOslave
NWOslave
10 years ago

Katz

If a book sucks it’s not good. This is true.

ithiliana went online a grabbed a bunch of feminist authors who other feminist’s spoke highly of. Definitely true. Hell stop off at feminisite where every week some “author” of the sites reccomends some feminist book, and they all have one thing in common. They’re AMAZING. The word amazing gets thrown about with amazing frequency.

The people I know and theres lots and we all read have stated quite clearly they throw out books when they suck. You’re telling me you’d continue to read a book that completely sucked? Why? To feel the suckitude.

No one looks at authors other than the biggies who’ve made a name for themselves by consistently writing good books. This is definitely true.

Meaningless rant. Tell than. What does a strident feminist write about? My guess would be #1)oppression #2)women are good #3) men are bad #4)history revised according to feminist theory 5)Lets no forget the patriarchy.

I’m battin 100% here.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
10 years ago

People in general:

I retract my statement on “a book is good or it sucks.” It is a false statement. What I was going for was more like people judge the worth of a book by its contents.

@NWO:

So, its exactly the point that you’re missing the point? Not sure what you’re agree with me on, since I specifically said that the posters here are not saying a book is good soley because of its author.

Nobby
Nobby
10 years ago

“The comments here don’t exist in a vacuum, NWO, are you really gonna completely ignore any context when trying to debate them?” Wait, you have met slavey before, right?

Anyway, to sum up, Price: “Furthermore, it appears that since feminism’s triumph, female achievement in the higher arts has deteriorated substantially.”

David/commenters: “Really? How about [list of great authors who are women and contemporary].”

NWO: “WHY ARE YOU ALL FOCUSING ON GENDER? IT’S ALWAYS GENDER WITH YOU PEOPLE!”

end scene

Nobby
Nobby
10 years ago

Also, “ithiliana went online a grabbed a bunch of feminist authors who other feminist’s spoke highly of. Definitely true.”

All hail the omniscient NWO! He knows all!

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
10 years ago

“The comments here don’t exist in a vacuum, NWO, are you really gonna completely ignore any context when trying to debate them?”

I’ve come to the conclusion that NWOaf is like a Magic 8 Ball. Give him a shake and a pre-packaged rant pops out.

Here are a few authors I haven’t seen mentioned yet:

Margaret Ball
Ellen Kushner
Vonda McIntyre
Janet Kagan
Lisa Mason
Lousie Marley
Martha Wells
Carole Nelson Douglas
Sara Teasdale
Baroness Orczy

I had to move recently and all my books are in storage, so these are just some of the highlights.

Bee
Bee
10 years ago

Sadly, Iris Murdoch is no longer alive. There was a beautiful movie about her death, though. So at least we’ve got that.

For my money, “The Sea, the Sea” is one of the top-ten most enjoyable books of the past 50 years. Love me some Iris.

NWOslave
NWOslave
10 years ago

And I love Bee and her little self serving cudo’s to her own genius….”I haven’t thought about Noel Streatfield since I was 10″

Absolutely priceless. Why I haven’t thought about the disertation I gave to my nursery school class about Homers oddyssey which I read in the womb in years. Ahhh those were the days.

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

What’s a “strident” feminist? xD what defines that xD Which authors are feminists? Are we assuming all female authors are? Is AJ Pitt a feminist? I’ve seen anti-feminists bash him until they found out he’s male, so apparently there are ppl who care about the author’s gender and not the content xD (tho it seems like ppl here are trying to say the opposite, and that they too are “I like this cuz it’s great and the author happens to be male/female/catlike, but there is yet another chasm of misunderstanding 🙁 ) Somebody sounds like they don’t KNOW what feminist authors write, and is guessing.. maybe they should read some? (again who defines what a feminist is… if a feminist is defined by “one who writes stories about man hating women who kill men” then you are kinda finding what you want to by defining it as such xD and there’s SO MANY comics like that written by guys and each one feminists (like moi) just HATE so… xD )

You’re batting 100% b/c everybody else is playing hockey and you’re standing out in the batter’s box by yourself XD I guess you could also be batting 0% too xD

Personally I myself am a Trident feminist 😀 Both the gum and the big fork of uber sea doom! 😀 It’s time to kick Black Manta’s butt and chew minty gum! 😀

Lady Victoria von Syrus
Lady Victoria von Syrus
10 years ago

A book is good or it sucks.

It’s quite possible for a book to be good in some ways and bad in others. For instance, Sarah Dunant doesn’t have a terribly good technique and sometimes comes up with an awkward sentence – but the overall story she tells is usually pretty good.

Why you people make such a big deal out of if a man or woman wrote something is ludicrous.

I’ll believe you’re sincere about this when you link me to the comment you made on the Spearhead discussion disparaging women writers saying this exact same thing.

And people like ithiliana with her “random memory dump” of 30 female authors, what a joke. Yea, like you didn’t do a search of female writers

Some people are good with names. I could glance over to my bookshelf and give you a long list of authors, too.

The vast majority of people buy a book by reading the general overview on the back. If the book was good and is part of a series they might look at the authors name to find the rest of the series.

You’re completely ignoring everything else that leads up to the book being on the shelf for a potential reader to pick up. Does the writer have enough time in between her career and family obligations to sit down and write a novel? Since women still shoulder the majority of domestic chores and child-raising in addition to maintaining a career, this can be challenging. Does she have a good chance at finding an agent? A good agent? Does that agent have a chance at shopping her book around to the publishers? If the publishers take the book, how much do they spend on publicity? You know, scheduling book tours and sending free copies out to reviewers and the like. When it comes to that back of the book blurb and the cover picture, how much money are they willing to shell out to the artist and copywriter?

Then, and only then, does it arrive on the bookshelf.

If the book sucks it gets thrown away after chapter 5.

Not necessarily – I read an entire trilogy that was godawful, mostly because I was hoping that something alluded to in the prologue of the first book would turn out to be true by the end. It wasn’t, and I kind of regret all the time I wasted on the books.

Than of course you have ithiliana prattling on about her very feminist authors. I guess that automatically makes them a good read. What could they possibly write about? Bad, stupid, violent men and good, smart, enlightened women.

In Lilith Saintcrow’s Nightside series, the main character is a very emotionally flawed woman, whose nemesis is an incredibly terrifying and awful sorceress. Her greatest support is her boyfriend, who’s painted as an all-around good guy. And that’s just one instance of a woman novelist writing something other than that. In fact, the only author I can think of who actually has gender-divided characters like what you describe is Robert Jordan, and I don’t know many fans of his.

Bee
Bee
10 years ago

NWOslave: Noel Streatfield writes children’s books. You’ve got google right there. Use it.

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