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The Spearhead on Lady Lit 3: Electric Boogaloo

This baby knows more about contemporary women's fiction than all Spearhead contributors combined. (As does the kitten.)

There are really few things quite so entertaining as watching people as ignorant as a box of pig shit offering their opinions on literature. Especially when the people in question are W.F. Price and his gang of misfit boys at The Spearhead, who are back for yet another take on the whole Women’s Lit question.

At this point I’ve run out of jokes on this particular subject, so I’m just going to let Mr. Price dig his own hole here. Here he is, trying to argue that feminism has made terrible lady writers even terribler.*

[I]t appears that since feminism’s triumph, female achievement in the higher arts has deteriorated substantially. When women no longer have to excel to be read and recognized, but simply have to advertise the fact that they are women to be celebrated for dubious achievements, they won’t put as much effort into producing anything of quality. So the sorry state of women today is a direct result of feminist privilege, which absolves them of all responsibility and deflects any criticism. …

Yes, feminism has wrecked Western womanhood, reducing the young women of today to spoiled brats who can’t take a hint of criticism, and immediately turn to authorities to bolster their self-esteem. No woman can be too fat to be beautiful, too dense to be intelligent, or too dull to be creative. They are all equally super-duper goddesses, before whom men must genuflect and heap up mounds of praise.

Price of course gives no examples to back up any of his, er, “arguments,” and somehow I suspect he hasn’t actually read any fiction written by women beyond an odd title or two he might have been assigned in high school. I wonder if Price could even name a half-dozen living woman novelists without having to resort to Google — excluding JK Rowling, Stephanie Meyer and Jackie Collins (who hasn’t heard of them?) and Harper Lee (who wasn’t assigned To Kill a Mockingbird in high school?).

*I am aware that “terribler” is not a real world.

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Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

I can’t rly recommend much sci-fi/fantasy (and I have a real soft spot for the Tek novels, no matter what ppl might think or laugh at Shatner and the silliness of the novels xD I find them fun 😀 And the show being filmed in Toronto, and me knowing Eugene Clark as a kid, I think adds to that xD ) except Black Blade Blues by J.A. Pitts which is pretty fun and the main char is awesome 😀 (and a gay woman! :3 )

But I can recommend some dramatic non-fiction 🙂 Mostly of the sports kind xD Searching for Bobby Orr and Gretzky’s Tears by Stephen Brunt are amazing… he makes sports culture and business dramatic and fun, and weaves the interviews and information he gathered into something akin to fiction writing :]

Also I really enjoyed Fantasyland and Moneyball (both involving the whole statistics vs qualitative analysis thing in baseball) and if anybody’s a boxing fan, Brunt’s “Facing Ali” is amazing. And a book I just read “Sports From Hell” by Rick Reilly which is WAY more than the sum of it’s parts, which I thought was just gonna be mocking weird sports around the world, but he doesn’t mock at all :]

It’s actually rly fun and enjoyable, and he’s a genuinely funny guy, and he doesn’t mock the sports at all, and in fact you get to really know and appreciate the sport and the ppl who play it and how these are ppl who aren’t millionaires enjoying sports that aren’t famous b/c they ENJOY it and b/c they are competitive 🙂 And his experience with women’s pro football is also extremely well written and would prolly infuriate the types of ppl who need to believe that all women are fragile barbie dolls that even the weakest of men could crack open xD

I prolly am kinda on an island here, but those are some books I recommend 😀

ithiliana
9 years ago

Go, Trekkies!

The Unofficial ST Book Club 595 Books.

LISTS, lists of all of them, bwahahahah!

http://www.startrekbookclub.com/category/tos/tos-numbered-books/

Ami: Finally, VONDA MCINTYRE’s Trek novels (she did movie novelizations and also stand alone ones).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vonda_N._McIntyre

Um, and her original sff is good too — she has a great series with a totally queer polyamorous group and (SHOCK AMAZEMENT) a fat woman protagonist who is totally awesome.

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

Oh man, “The Enormous Egg”! I loved that book. And Amazon just took me on a little linky trip through “Homer Price,” “The Great Brain,” and “Dorrie the Witch.”

If people wouldn’t think I was a big weirdo, I’d totally put myself in the children’s section of the library tomorrow and just nostalge all over the place.

ithiliana
9 years ago

Ami: actually the TNG books I loved best had Q — I adore Q — OMG Q! I love the show, mind you, but the novels never really grabbed me the way some of the TOS ones did.

Especially beause of too much attention paid to (blech) Ryker and Troi, blech, and their awesome sauce romance *hairballcoff*

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

@ithiliana I prolly would like her original work! :] Cuz I got to like her as an author through her Spider-Man trilogy (which are awesome, I haven’t seen nebody novel, movie, tv or comic book, write Peter, MJ and Venom that well) and so it’s not even Star Trek for why I like her! 😀

Thanks for the reccs! 😀

ithiliana
9 years ago

Bee, since everybody on my campus knows I’m a weirdo, I am so hitting our curriculum library (one of best in the state)–and I’d totally forgotten Homer Price.

But one of my TOTALLY FAVORITE books ever, and I still own a copy is THE WITCH FAMILY.

OMG I WANT TO READ THAT NOW.

http://inneedofchocolate.wordpress.com/2008/04/19/the-witch-family-by-eleanor-estes/

ithiliana
9 years ago

Ami: I love Duane’s SPIDERMAN novels as well (I was a huge fan of the comic strip Spidey).

And, well, all her stuff. Duane.

Easily in my top three writers EVAH.

*happy sigh*

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

@ithiliana Yeah… I always hated that ppl kept wanting to put them back together : I LOVED the WorfxTroi thing at the end of TNG, and I always wanted them to end up together and happy 🙂 Esp since Troi is alrdy basically a mother to Alexander :] And I felt like Riker/Troi back together was so forced and (certain) fanservice :

I also always rly liked that they were an example of a break up where ppl were mature adults and ended up as rly great close friends who didn’t get jealous or upset and were supportive :]

ithiliana
9 years ago

Nobby: I loved the second movie (if brought together elements of the second and third books, if I recall correctly), and I thought they did a brilliant job of adapting it, and the Oz world was so much realistic. It’s too bad it didn’t get much attention–I guess everybody just fixates on first one.

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
9 years ago

Vonda McIntyre also did a wonderful alternative history piece set in the court of Louis XIV. (1638-1715) It’s called “The Moon and the Sun” and it’s absolutely fantastic.

I remember “The Enormous Egg!”

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

AUGH

my internet hiccuped 🙁 David can you get rid of the 1st and 3rd posts? 🙂

ithiliana
9 years ago

Ami: re librarians. That’s an amazing stories.

I’m actually a huge fan of all librarians–the ones in a small town in Idaho in the 1960s are not and probably were not representative of the profession. I suspect there was some small town politicing going on (i.e. a lot of women who worked at the high school and the library and other places in town were married to men who were faculty at my dad’s university, and feuds–and the man could get into feuds–often resulted in crappy stuff happening). I just remember that so much because it was this horrible accusation about something I loved more than anything else, and it seemed so unfair! And I would never lie about books!!!!

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
9 years ago

“Return to Oz” was a wonderful movie. “Ozma of Oz,” which made up the bulk of “Return to Oz,” is my favorite Oz book.

Did anyone else read Tove Jansson’s Moomin books? I’ve always loved them.

ithiliana
9 years ago

Hippodameia: I ADORE “The Moon and the Sun” (there was a lot of bullshitting from the military Alternate history dudes about how that wasn’t alternate HIStory that made me want to smack a lot of them)–what McIntyre did with that novel was so incredible.

A friend and I want to team teach an alternate history creative writing class–she’ll do history and how to “alternate” it, and I’ll do the creative writing stuff. Now if we could just get some more time.

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

“Did anyone else read Tove Jansson’s Moomin books?”

YES! That’s another one I should look up, when I get up the nerve to stalk the children’s section. And The Borrowers series. And of course “The Phantom Tollbooth.” I’m totes going to have to work my way up to Robert Cormier, I think …

I remember when books were like my friends. It sounds kind of sad, but it’s giving me the warm and fuzzies right now.

Johnny Pez
9 years ago

@ ithiliana

For your alt-hist project, I recommend So You Want to Write a Timeline by the folks at the soc.history.what-if newsgroup.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
9 years ago

*surfaces for another plug for our Manboobz Forum on http://www.librarything.com*

Also, if you know anything about that VS Naipaul person, please comment on if he is a Dbag or an out of control ego.

ithiliana
9 years ago

A few comments on GRRMartin’s SONG OF ICE AND FIRE — I was reading about it the other day on one of the other threads, but I was in a bad headspace there and did not trust myself to answer. I hadn’t read any of Martin’s work, and picked up SOIAF only when I heard Sean Bean was cast in the HBO series.

While it will never be my favorite book (and I’d recommend Kate Elliott’s medievaliesque fantasies as much more innovative and excellent), GRRM does some very good things in that series that make it stand out from the generic fat medieval fantasies:

His multiple points of view

It’s hard to pull of that many pov shifts, with that many pov characters, and I think he does a superb job–all the more amazing in that so many of the sections are so short, so there is this cumulative effect that builds over time.

The other result of the shifting pov is his ability to show us characters through other characters’ eyes, and then show us the world and events from their own perspectives which can make shifts: Jamie Lannister, in the first novel (which has a lot of Stark viewpoints) seems a right bastard.

And while he’ll never be the Golden Hero, once we get into his head, learn his experiences, and see events from his perspective, my sense of him shifted, radically). This shift was true for many of the characters.

One problem in works with multiple points of view if the narrative is not well crafted is that too many of the different characters’ sections sound alike–GRRM writes entirely in third person omniscient (I’m not sure there is any example of an intrusive narrator–the narrative voice stepping into the story to explain things to the reader without being in the perspective of a pov charcter), but each “voice” in each section is unique–and stays consistent over time. His characters are memorable.

Women. He has a lot of women characters, and while a number of us have pointed to the number of rapes, I don’t see the rapes as being written to sexually titillate the default male reader. The rapes are horrifying; the abuse if horrifying, but many male characters are abused as well. I’d have to wait until the series is done (and yes, I have reserved my copy of Dance With Dragons to pick up July 12 YAY), to evaluate how well or badly his narrative handles the rapes.

The range of women characters is impressive–and I am drawn to a number of them and can appreciate others (Sansa) through their arc.

I do have a sneaking sense when I last read it (only second time around) that a few too many of the Major Disasters of the plot were initiated by actions of the women–but I’d have to do a lot more re-reading and note taking and study the pattern more before I’d want to argue that as any more than sneaking feeling.

Fans call his work grimdark–and it is.

I also like how his narrative shows the horrific impact of the war between the feuding houses has on the peasants, the food growing portion of the population.

He based the conflict on one of the historical British noble conflicts–cannot remember which–lancaster and york? And while his main characters are still mostly drawn from the noble houses, there is an awareness there of the commons, the townspeople, the peasants, that a lot of your standard medfantasy doesn’t have (David Eddings is an example of that, with his occasional unnamed peasant boy playing a flute).

Martin shows the impact the war has on the land and the people who farm it–adn shows how the ongoing brutality of war affects the men (knights and others) who end up more or less “outlaws” preying on anybody regardless of their affiliation.

I appreciate how Martin does NOT in fact glorify war–quite the opposite.

*SPOILER ALERT*****
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This is speculation, but the way the narrative is structured, it’s clear that the REAL threat are the White Walkers and the long winter–and the fact that all the Big Manly Noble Males are squabbling with each other and fighting over who gets to be KING when the threat is growing, when the fortresses along the wall have lapsed from 18 to 3, when the Wildings are moving south because of the threat, there’s the very real chance that the Seven Kingdoms will have very little chance of fighting off the REAL threat because of their petty little House wars.

And given what happened in the fourth book with Dany, and the propecy, and the fact that only fire can take out the Ice Zombies (as I affectionately call them), and only obsidian/volcano glass can take out the White Walkers (and who better to get a bunch of obsidian from a volcano area than Dragons, hmm), I’d be willing to bet a nickle that by the end, Dany may end up ruler of the kingdoms because she’s the last one standing (heh), and also I notice that she’s the only one of all the Manly Men (with the exception of Ned Stark who SAD SIGH was killed in book 1) who seems to give a damn about what it takes to be a good ruler as opposed to a good warrior. I think a lot of Martin’s narrative undercuts the “good warrior hero” equates to GOOD KING in many many ways.

So there are lots of reasons to say that Martin’s work in this series so far is good in the sense of narrative technique, avoiding stale cliches of the genre, and doing interesting things with ideas of power and gender. But of course a lot depends on how he carries it out in the rest of the series.

ithiliana
9 years ago

Erm, should rephrase that: Dany is the only one of the nobles from a ruling family besides Ned Stark who actually thinks about how to be a good ruler — didn’t mean to imply she’s a Manly Man — I admit to a sneaking glee about how her obnoxious brother was killed. It’s 11:30 pm here. I really should head toward bed…

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

Have a good sleep! 😀

Lady Victoria von Syrus
Lady Victoria von Syrus
9 years ago

Yay, Game of Thrones! Please please please come over to LibraryThing so we can start up a thread about GoT!

that a few too many of the Major Disasters of the plot were initiated by actions of the women

The event which drives most of the plot, I think, would be Robert’s Rebellion, a reaction to Rhaegar kidnapping and raping Lyanna Stark, which happened 15 years before the plot even happens. And Mance Raydar is responsible for quite a bit, as well. Mad King Aerys would have been responsible for quite a bit of carnage if Jaime hadn’t stabbed him, and even the Battle on the Blackwater was a pissed off Stannis Baratheon vs Joffrey Bara – Lannister.

That being said, the text indicates that, when it comes to children who are incapable of ruling, one of the reasons why they are so incapable is that their mothers (Lysa Arryn, Cersei Lannister, etc) are overinvolved. Catelyn had to force herself to give Robb space, and Dany grew up without any kind of mother at all.

Pecunium
9 years ago

No one looks at authors other than the biggies who’ve made a name for themselves by consistently writing good books. This is definitely true.

This is provably false, because I exist, and I look at authors. I am very prone to looking for books by little known authors I’ve enjoyed.

Having spent a significant chunk of time (my family has been selling books since I was 13, so for about ten years I was working in a bookstore) I can state, categorically, that this is not true. An uncounted number of people have come to me and asked, “have you any books by ‘x’? I read (insert title here) and loved it, did s/he write anything else.”

In arms reach I have a book by Sarah Ruden, four by Lois McMasters Bujold, three by Elizabeth Bear, two by Rex Stout, one by John Mcphee. Past arms reach (i.e. not in the nightstand) are about 25 linear feet of books. I have another 1,500, or so, in boxes, ready to move to New Jersey.

Pecunium
9 years ago

ithiliana: That’s a great CV. I know several people who would be very interested in some of that (serious slashfans), even though most of it is tangiental to my personal interests.

Color me impressed.

footnotegirl
footnotegirl
9 years ago

Ithiliana, I was about to throw down about the librarian comment (being one myself) until you pointed out the many years ago and small town thing. Whew.
Though I will note that a teacher once insisted that I’d lied about reading the Laura Ingalls Wilder books in 2nd grade and insisted that I not be allowed to read any book over 100 pages for book reports because, obviously, anything more would be beyond me. So there!
Nowadays, librarians are more likely to be criticized for giving out books that certain individuals think are not appropriate, which sucks.

Also:
NWOSlave, if you only read books once and then never look at them again, why in the world are you buying them? Why not just go to your local library, borrow them for free, and then return them and not be stuck with them?

darksidecat
darksidecat
9 years ago

My hometown did not have a library in the 60s, period. The public library was created in the 80s through a gift given by the surviving partner of a rather notorious local lesbian, and runs purely on her endowment and on donations, making it rather immune from the county government squabling that causes trouble in some places. When the library was first created, its main bulk of books came from the deceased woman’s collection, so there was quite a bit of interesting material there (including a collection of Rita Mae Brown books). The librarians who set the policies, therefore, tended to be hard nosed old women who were perfectly willing to deal with scandal-their response to attempts to censor anything was always-“if you don’t like it, read something else”. They never discouraged reading-in fact they actually had classes to teach adults and children how to read, and how to fill out job applications, do basic math-they teach basic computer skills these days too. One taught me how to use a dictionary when I was five and asked her which book would tell me what the word “ire” meant. They are a wonderful group of women and the library was always a very safe space for me.

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

Whoa, ithiliana, a teacher of womens books. Doesn’t that mean you teach 1/2 of a subject.

A professor in higher acedemia, that great bastion of political correctness and leftist culture. Disagreement with the purveying wisdom usually gets the boot. I’d always thought intelligence was measured by applied knowlege, not the knowlege itself. It’s seems everyone here is quite knowlegable. Ah well stupid slavey.

I apparently consume books like food and throw them away. Also if book “sucks” it’s good as well according to the high knowlege folks out here.

Funny when I said Game of Thrones books were at the top of my best books ever written I was deemed a fool, idiot, ect. Yet when the self proclaimed geniuses here deem it excellent reading material it is. Man = Bad, Woman = God I guess. (Oops, freudian slip God instead of good). Stupid slavey.

So many brilliant minds here how can I compete with the total monolithic agreement of self proclaimed genius?

speedlines
speedlines
9 years ago

I apparently consume books like food and throw them away.

Dude, you’re the one who described books as “meat ‘n taters.” And you admitted to throwing them away. So what’s the problem?

ithiliana
9 years ago

NWO: I have colleagues who teach ONLY British literature between a certain time period–are they only teaching half?

EVERY class makes some selection; nobody teaches ALL of “literature” (however you define literature).

Does a class that focuses only on contemporary poetry only teach part of a subject?

No.

I teach a number of writing workshops (creative writing, technical writing) in which the ‘textbooks’ are basically huge lists of all the writers, editors, agents, publishers who post online about the profession– men and women (John Scalzi is someone I recommend often as a good source for beginning writers to read, as is A.C. Crispin at Writer Beware).

I teach a Stylistics course where the primary text is by M. A. K. Halliday (stylistics is the application of linguistic principles to literary texts). Students write their projects on any text they wish.

I do define my work as teaching skills, rather than content, i.e. I can put Harry Potter next to Shakespeare (and have in my intro to lit courses) to reach reading skills.

Suck up the fact that there are courses these days focusing on works by authors excluded from the dead white male curriculum (you think Shakespeare was the only playwright of his time? Have you read ALL THE OTHER PLAYWRIGHTS OF HIS TIME? If not, well, how terrible, you only read one). (My undergrad advisor taught a course on Renaissance playwrights OTHER than Shakespeare — let me tell you, Hamlet looks downright tame compared to the body count in some of the works by his colleagues).

So, yeah, I teach African American literature; I have colleagues who teach Children’s literature. And, great glee and joy, I teach Tolkien. A MAN! A TERRIBLE TERRIBLE MAN.

Except, not.

ithiliana
9 years ago

NWO: When somebody says “X author is my favorite ever” that’s cool.

When somebody implies “X author is greatest author ever because I like them,” well, that’s not going to fly for many reasons.

I am not a huge fan of GRRM, and I don’t think he’s the greatest author ever or the greatest author IN HIS GENRE (medieval fantasy), but I think he does some very good things.

I tossed out the Great Author theory of life a long time ago.

What do you think about my claim that Martin’s work does not glorify war, or the men who engage in it, and that I suspect a woman is going to end up major ruler of the world because she doesn’t follow the heroic masculine ideal? Which is only one model of masculinity.

Another character who doesn’t, Tyrion, is one of my favorites. So much for “glorify men they fight WARZ for us”–Martin’s WORK doesn’t seem to do that. Point me to any place in the four novels where WAR=GLORY is expressed by anybody but young men who have never fought in a war.

ithiliana
9 years ago

Footnotegirl (cool handle): I can tell horror stories myself of teachers — back in the day.

For one thing, when I hit first grade, they were teaching the phonics method of reading. I already knew how to read (and had learned as many self taught children do through word recognition–i.e. nag relatives to read the story a gazillion times, memorize it, figure out the words, and go from there). I got into trouble for READING WRONG. (Plus, they were using Dick and Jane, shudder.)

I was reading at the fourth grade level by their tests.

And I was doing it wrong.

There were conferences.

I’m afraid that I have a great deal of disdain for how READING (which has nothing to do with English as an academic discipine, sigh) is taught in this school.

I remember when one of the HP books came out–the really really long one? Fifth?

The newspaper had some review with a Reading Expert who said the book was too long for children to read in one setting therefore it was bad.

So, yes, it was ONE or two bad librarians, a gazillion years ago. Not all librarians.

Amnesia
Amnesia
9 years ago

NWOslave is doing his dance of willful ignorance again. Hold on, let me get some peanuts to throw at him.

ithiliana
9 years ago

Lady V; I’m sorry, I cannot stand forum formats–I even have to grit my teeth with the blog thing (LiveJournal/Dreamwidth SO much better for how I like to read/view stuff).

Women and plot: you’re right about those events in the past that are playing out today, but the initiating events I’m thinking about in the current time of the plot are:

Sansa going to Cersei (I notice they leave that out in the film).

Catelyn taking Tyrion captive

A whole bunch of what Cersei does in the last book or two to try to hold onto power.

I do like your point about mothers — I hadn’t thought about that.

Of course, arguably, Visaerys (sp?) grew up without a mother as well (though not from as young an age as his sister), and we see how well that turns out…

ithiliana
9 years ago

Someone upthread asked for more about Naipaul: I haven’t read his work, but I have read Derek Walcott’s who has PWNED Naipaul in poetry:

http://www.newstatesman.com/books/2008/05/derek-walcott-jamaica-naipaul

http://www.newstatesman.com/books/2008/05/derek-walcott-jamaica-naipaul

ithiliana
9 years ago

Johnny Pez: THANK you for that link!

A lot of my creative writing reading assignments come straight off the internet (resources for writers by writers, editors, agents, publishers, etc.)

*bookmarks*

Pecunium: Thank you! I was pretty pissed or I might have refrained from throwing my academic weight around! But I also know it’s not that outstanding a c.v. in academic terms (my uni has been pushing more resaearch but also requires a heavy teaching load, so…)

I may know some of your slashfan friends, ahahah — there are a slew of us on LJ/DW who are into slash and, often, into academia. Academia is a small small small world in many ways.

zombie rotten mcdonald

Librarian solidarity, brothers and sisters!

Pecunium
9 years ago

ilithiana: I figure you probably do. I’m not, quite, inclined to academia. What I happen to like about your CV isn’t the breadth, but the apparent depth; and in an area with a fair bit of scope for interesting things, it being a wealth of the sort of writing storytelling which in the past would have been invisible/lost.

I am certain we have acquaintance in common, at the very least on the net.

ithiliana
9 years ago

Amnesia: isn’t that sort of a waste of peanuts? I have some spare caltrops lying around…

The irony of his comment is that while I said I teach women writers, I never said I only teach women writers.

The assigned novels for my graduate seminar this summer (it’s a five week term, and they have secondary articles to read) are both, in fact by men:

Edward P. Jones
The Known World

Geoff Ryman
Was

BOTH highly recommended, btw (by me!).

Spoilers in the review and article below.

http://www.goonan.com/was.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/06/AR2009110603404.html

Amnesia
Amnesia
9 years ago

@ithiliana
Actually, I was just planning on throwing the shells.

Lady Victoria von Syrus
Lady Victoria von Syrus
9 years ago

Sansa going to Cersei (I notice they leave that out in the film).

Catelyn taking Tyrion captive

I’m not sure that counts as a long-reaching major disaster. It certainly earned Ned a broken leg, but what doomed Ned was the fact that he decided to take the honorable route when confronting Cersei. That, and Joffrey being a little shit.

A whole bunch of what Cersei does in the last book or two to try to hold onto power.

That’s true – Cersei’s main problem is that she resents being treated differently for being a woman, but then has no compunction against seducing someone to get her way.

But there’s also Sandor Clegane raiding a village on order of the Lannisters, which led to Beric and his band of merry men becoming Robin Hood style outlaws. Tywin Lannister has certainly been responsible for his share of the unpleasantness, as well. So I think it’s pretty much even between both men and women fucking up.

And, NWOslave, we actually had quite a good discussion about GRRM on the previous thread. It’s just that no one cared to talk to you about it – not because you’re a dude, but because you’re an obstinate jackass who is not pleasant to speak with.

Amused
Amused
9 years ago

NWO: As someone who believes the classics (as a category) are dull, you lack any credibility in criticizing college literature curricula.

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

Slavey: “Whoa, ithiliana, a teacher of womens books. Doesn’t that mean you teach 1/2 of a subject.”

WHOA! You sure told her!!!! Bro five!

I’m not really sure how that sentence makes sense unless one is under the assumption that all classes are called things like Math and Science.

Slavey at his local college registrar: “Wait a minute … COMPUTER science? ASTROphysics? WESTERN religion? I’m not paying good money to take PARTIAL classes! I’m outta here!”

Amused
Amused
9 years ago

On second thought, NWO, I think I understand why you don’t like Homer: the many reasons he lists why real men should go to war don’t include “to protect them fragile damsels who gratefully do your laundry for the rest of their lives”, so it shatters your myth about the cultural nature of warfare. “War will give you the opportunity to pillage and rape women” is a recurring theme, however. Not to mention how well Agamemnon “protected” the women in his family by going to war.

ithiliana
9 years ago

Amused: Not to mention how war gives you the chance to hand out with your best buddy forever, drinking and schmoozing, and doing all the Great Greek homoerotic stuff (boy did that movie wimp out by making Achilles and Patrocles COUSINS, ahahahah).

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

I love how I was spot on on predicting his response (except the state xD ) incl the self flagellation xD He always gets like that when he feels insecure or realizes that ppl he’s arguing with (how did he manage to turn “books are awesome” into an argument? o_O ) are smarter and more knowledgeable than he surmised… 🙁

It also seems like he’s under the impression that the reason the white guys who are generally taught in schools is cuz they rly are objectively the best and nothing else out there is rly worth reading (except Star Wars, it’s like Bart in the Simpsons: War of Independence, World War II… and Star Wars! xD Star Wars is a great exception to everything :3 ) xD At least he believes that women are half of great literature out there :3

Also I wonder what a school of NWO would look like… would Calculus be too specific? Would even Math be too specific? xD Is there just a big course called “Learnin”? xD Or “Things and Stuff” (that’d be my course! 😀 )

Welcome, I am Professor Angelwings and in the next 1000 years I will teach you…. xD

Tho some would say any course where I teach what I know would last no more than… *looks at watch* well it’s already over! xD

I self flagellate too, but it’s more fun xD

ballgame
9 years ago

I’m slightly surprised that no one’s mentioned Doris Lessing yet.

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

“Is there just a big course called “Learnin”?”

That’s awesome. One million bee points. (Redeemable nowhere, sadly.)

tawaen
tawaen
9 years ago

Ok, my list doesn’t add to the literature giants, but they share my shelves with the likes of Pratchett, Gaiman and Eddings.

Tamora Pierce
Anne Bishop
Jayne Ann Krentz/Amanda Quick
Tanya Huff
Megan Whalen Turner
Robin McKinley
Patricia A. McKillip
Kate Elliot
Juliet Marillier
Kristin Cashore
Gena Showalter
Charlaine Harris
Laini Taylor

And I freely admit I googled a few of them, because I could remember the book titles but not the author name. However, I can take a snapshot of my IKEA bookshelves just to prove I really do love trashy and/or juvenile fiction. From male and female authors.

amandajane5
amandajane5
9 years ago

Okay, way late on this because I lost my internet connection, but seriously? I got dinged for Noel Streatfeild? I mean, I listed several authors I find more embarrassing than Ms. Streatfeild, and that wasn’t even a list of “authors I think are awesome” or anything, just a here’s what I see when I turn away from my desk. As I said, I can do a similar list for men, which from the way I categorize my fiction would start with Haruki Murakami, Eoin Colfer, Chang-Rae Lee, Douglas Adams, and L. Frank Baum. Just that same first shelf.

But really? Noel Streatfeild? I was expecting to be dinged on Helen Fielding or Maeve Binchy or Marion Zimmer Bradley, because they have written some crap books in their time.

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

Amandajane5: I don’t think you got dinged … although maybe I misunderstood or misremember some comments. I responded to your post because I LOVE the Shoe series and your comment made me remember that I should reread them. And also because it was the first time that I realized that Noel Streatfield was a women. As a kid, I guess I assumed that she was a he.

Then the illustrious Mr. Slavey called me out on being a snob for saying I had read her books when I was a kid. I responded by saying that they were actually children’s books and that he was an ass, etc.

But, for what it’s worth, I love Streatfield, and I would have her books in my collection today, if I had had the foresight not to abandon most of my books from that era at my parents’ house. (I do have “A Wind in the Willows” and “The Little Prince” though. Good stuff!0

amandajane5
amandajane5
9 years ago

I did end up being slightly dinged, but mostly by Mr. Slave who, you know, hasn’t read anything she wrote. I bought all of her books (that I didn’t already own) on eBay back in grad school, and have to point out that while her name actually was Streatfeild (yes, e before i and not after c) they’re frequently listed as Streatfield and it’s also helpful to know the book names as they were published in England because many of them were changed for American publication, and to have them fit into the “Shoes” theme. I highly recommend “The House in Cornwall” if you can find a copy of it. Mine’s from like, 1940, but it’s a great story, though more of a mystery.

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