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antifeminism evil women men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA oppressed men sex

Fear and loathing on a date

Let me tell you more about the Pussy Pass ...

The Men’s Rights subreddit on Reddit is awash in mini-manifestos. My favorite of the most recent batch, a rousing 3-part rant running under the title “Do not fear them!” 

Who is “them,” you ask?

Women who might just decide that they don’t really want to have sex with some dude who keeps going on about how men are the most oppressed group in the world.

Responding, apparently, to a comment in an earlier thread suggesting “that being publicly vocal about the way men’s rights are trampled on and ignored is a great way to lose the opportunity of getting laid,” manifesto writer Kuppers argues that it just ain’t so —  but when it is, just bite your tongue for as long as it takes to get into her pants.

He starts off with a strange variant on the notion that there are plenty of fish in the sea. If you feel that women won’t want to have sex with your Men’s-Rights-espousing self, Kuppers suggests,  it’s

because your brain was conditioned in a small communal/tribal setting. A group of angry women was a serious threat to your prospects of reproduction. As you know, women often act like herd animals, and view acceptance and appreciation from their peers of their choice of man to be important. This is completely moot today. There are millions of fish in the sea.

Aside from that final truism I have no fucking idea what he’s talking about.  I don’t recall growing up in anything that might possibly be considered – literally or figuratively – a “tribal setting” ruled over by a group – sorry, a herd – of “angry women” hell-bent on keeping me from reproducing.  Is this a common experience? Also, I have precisely zero interest in “reproduction.”  Indeed, I sort of make it a policy to only have sex with women who are at least as interested in preventing reproduction as I am.

On to point two in this curious document, which is that ladies love dudes with strong opinions:

Women, while they do not always explicitly say so and sometimes contradict so, sincerely do appreciate a man who has strong internal beliefs and principles, and does not compromise that for the sake of assuaging someone else’s sensitivities, including theirs. A man who is willing to pretend he is something he is not, isn’t attractive on a deep masculine level to women.

True, up to a point, but you might want to keep all that shit about women being angry reproduction-threatening herd animals to yourself. That might not go over so well on your first Starbucks coffee date. Or ever. Protip: Misogyny aside, very few people want to get with people who refer to sex as “reproduction.”

But if your desire for sex outweighs your manly desire to be truthful about your obnoxious beliefs, well, that’s all good too – if by “all good” you mean “you can still have angry sex with women you despise if you just keep your pie hole shut for a few hours.” Or, as Kuppers puts it in his third and final point, which he apparently doesn’t realize completely contradicts point number two:

The kind of woman who a) wants you to be subordinate to her crazy foaming feminist nonsense, and b) has no tolerance or patience for your concerns, is not worth anything more than a cheap, well-protected fuck anyway. Fine, keep your mouth shut for the couple of hours it takes to get her into bed, but you’d be mad to pursue anything more serious with a woman like that.

Men’s Rightsers – such romantics at heart!

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Skyal
Skyal
9 years ago

So hey, if the woman pays all the time, is the man a slut/user? Or does that only work against women?

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

Oh don’t worry Skyral, every body pays in their own way. *winks knowingly*

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

Well Plymouth if you’re a slut and someone treats you like a slut don’t get in a huff about it. You’re a slut.

Whoa, only attractive people are good enough for you aye? You’ll mock MRAL if he dares calls a woman a fatty, yet only attractive are good enough for the lovely Plymouth and her 9X used goods. This would be the hypocrisy, (spelled correctly) to which I was alluding.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

Welcome back NWO: So tell me, are you gonna answer my question now? How do a man and woman date without one or the other being a slut/abuser?

My answer is that their is no case where that is true, but if both parties are worried and happen to date a lot they can alternate. Or whatever. But I’m more interested in how you think it should work.

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

I’ve answered you twice kirbywarp, please refer to my previous answer I gave you.

I find it amazing that not one woman here has ever gotten a free drink, movie, meal, ect. from a man. Is this planet bullshit, cause it ain’t earth.

amandajane5
amandajane5
9 years ago

Wow, Slavey, got a chip on the shoulder there?

When I met my husband and we had the “are we going to have sex?” chat it pretty much went like this: I have had sex with many people! I also have had sex with many people! Good on that, shall we have sex together with some contraception? Sounds fabulous!

I really don’t understand this concept of a vagina getting worn out, especially if you’re not one of those crazies who treat it like a clown car. A woman who has never expelled a baby from her nethers is evil/bad/etc. if she’s had sex with more than one person, or nine, I don’t care, but one who has had a baby is somehow less used in the vagina portion than one who’s only had penises up in there. The sense, it does not make.

darksidecat
darksidecat
9 years ago

I am not darkside cat. Cheese=squirrels. Get over it you nasty little shits that are undeserving of life(but don’t you dare say I hate you lot or I’ll rip out your left eyeball).

*Practicing my MRAL style reasoning*

The freemasons are trying to feed me to the lizard people! Red Scare! Red Scare! If you are a commie, you’re a bitch! If you aren’t a commie, you are a bitch!

*NWO style*

Hehe, I farted. Smelled like you.

*EWME style*

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

NWO: “Everyone pays their own way.”

Kirbywarp: “Doesn’t answer my question. At all. Even in the slightest. Do women pay by having sex? Isn’t this making them sluts? Do women pay for dates by being labeled sluts/abusers? Again, where is your logic?”

NWO: “You asked who should pay, I said pay your own way.”

And yet if men pay for the date, by your reasoning women are sluts if they have sex, and abusers if they don’t. Presumably if women pay, the men are sluts/abusers. How does repeating “pay your own way” answer the question? Unless you think women are sluts/abusers no matter what happens on a date…

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

To be fair, Plymouth, in this instance alone I am being a bit hyperbolic for the sake of making the point that some men are as locked into gender roles as some women. He doesn’t “hate” it when I pay, but when we first started seeing each other it weirded him out a bit. It just wasn’t part of his experience.

But I tell you what, we almost didn’t make it to the second date.

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

Lady Victoria von Syrus…If you want to accentuate your cleavage you do this to garnish attention from men, right? There can’t be another reason because if there was you would do that every day when your home alone. I just want you to admit is all.

You say “society” even sexualizes your feet. Have you ever put toenail polish on? If so than it’s you who sexualizes your feet, not society. All those clothes and make up you wear is YOU sexualizing yourself, NOT society. YOU are to blame. Not only that, but since I normally, (vitually always) wear a t-shirt, a loose pair of shorts in the summer and sneakers, you find it somehow demeaning to dress as I.

So the “sexuality” feminists/women claim men shouldn’t judge women by, you dress up like a dresden doll. What you want is to be judged by your “sexuality” when you want to be judged that way. Perhaps women should wear shirts that say “I wish to be judged as an object” when shes feeling sexy. And a shirt that says, “I’m more than just a sex object” when she feels objectified.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

Oh man, I’m feeling a little.. damp.. wait.. oh god. I’ve been spit on. NWO is spitting on me! *shock horror gasp*

footnotegirl
footnotegirl
9 years ago

Coming to the defense of NWOSlave (good god, that makes me feel ill) I believe the point he is trying to get across is that the only way that a woman can avoid being either a slut or a user is if they BOTH people on the date pay. I.E. going Dutch.
I hope I never have to do that again. *shudder*
On the other side of the ‘women do go out without dressing up’ coin (and I do that too), most of the women I know DO occasionally get dressed up just when they’re home, or when they’re going out to an event that’s only girls (showers, get togethers, etc). Not every day, because it can be a lot of effort. But yes, on occasion. So much for the women only dressing up to get men to lust after them.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

footnotegirl:

If that were the case I’d happily agree. I’ve actually said something similar in a previous post. What NWO seems to think, though, is that sex is a one-way thing: women give something to men, therefore there is a “buying” process, therefore “slut.” He doesn’t seem to understand that it takes two to tango, therefore who pays for dinner isn’t as relevant.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

B/c nobody noticed amidst the end of the universe alphabet me and Kirby were doing last night, I’ll ask again 😀 (and given where I’m asking I might get a wide variety of responses xD )

But to the straight guys here (tho ppl who aren’t straight guys w/ opinions/exp can comment too :3 )

if a guy were rly tired from a late night the day before and just finished work and wanted to go home and sleep, would he go with a girl clothes shopping (esp if he doesn’t like shopping or being in a clothing store filled with girls) and stay with her in the dressing room line and give comments on her clothes, if he didn’t like her? :O (and she didn’t ask)

(that being like like, and not rly good friends)

(this is actually just a question, it has nothing to do with nething going on in this thread :3 )

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

Hmm. that came out wrong… I don’t mean that I would agree that “the only way that a woman can avoid being either a slut or a user is if they BOTH people on the date pay,” cause again, two-way street. So… I guess I wouldn’t agree… but having both pay or alternating or whatever works is a good compromise.

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

Thx for explaining the painfully obvious to Kirbwarp, footnotegirl.

Your second paragraph however is a poor cop out. C’mon now, women dress up to attract mens attention, period.

katz
9 years ago

spit the check

Freudian slip, or intentional?

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

NWO, 1955 called. It wants you back.

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

Thank goodness hellkell, women had dignity and honor back then. They were respected because they earned it.

Shaenon
9 years ago

I thought everybody in the world knew that women mostly dress to entertain other women. Like a straight man is going to care what brand of shoes I have on.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

Well NWO, thanks for your clear and insightful explanation, which in no way is obscure or could be misinterpreted.

This is a question for the ladies out there, actually. I’ve met girls who tell me they like to “feel pretty” sometimes (dress up and wear makeup and such). So does “feel pretty” mean “look pretty to men”, meaning “looking to attract men?” (assuming hetero for now…)

My sense is, if that isn’t the case, that you can dress up to look good for everybody, not just who you have sex with. A man can dress up in a suit and tie and look nice to other men without sexual overtones, perhaps with women its the same thing? (perhaps its blindingly obvious as well, and I’m denser than usual tonight?)

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

NWO, have you seen the car ads making fun of women driving? Hardly respect…

SallyStrange
SallyStrange
9 years ago

What the fuck difference does it make to you, NWOaf? Why a woman wears this thing or that thing–why do YOU care? What difference is it to you?

SallyStrange
SallyStrange
9 years ago

Yeah, “respect” in the 1950s meant that 90% of the interesting professions were barred to you, you are to accept any and all sexual harassment with an embarrassed giggle, if you get raped it’s definitely your fault and you can get an illegal abortion if you’re willing to risk death…

Fuck “respect.” I’ll take economic independence, thank you very much.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

I think ppl who treat others know what they’re doing. XD We’re adults. I treat ppl to stuff all the time 😮 If they accept, I dun fault them or expect them to know what’s on my mind xD I mean treating ppl and expecting ppl to know that you’re being insincere and you expected them to refuse is… kinda weird isn’t it? o_O It seems a little odd to me 🙂 If I offer something I know that it could be accepted. :3

I dun like ppl treating me in general and I always ask over and over and over if it’s okay with them until usually my friends tell me to shush xD But that’s also my personal thing xD I’ve had a date who insisted on not letting me out of his car until he opened the door…. he almost killed himself rushing over to the other side of the car to open the door before I did o_o He also insisted on paying, I said I didn’t like doing that, but he said he was going to the washroom but didn’t and paid at the cash before we got the check xD Obv we didn’t work out xD I’ve had other guys AND girls (ahh bi-ness xD ) rly insist on paying, and then I usually treat them to something 🙂 I make it pretty clear that I want to go dutch and that I’m not interested in smex, and they still want to. I guess they just want to do something nice 🙂 Even if not (i can’t read their minds xD ), it’s their choice… I think adults know what they’re doing and aren’t busy playing mind games when they want to just have fun 🙂

As I said, I treat my friends to stuff all the time, sometimes non-friends or even strangers 🙂 Sometimes I want to do something nice or I want to cheer them up or somebody rly needs a meal and it does kinda hurt my finances, but it is something I want to do and if ppl say yes, I dun go “what type of person are you to accept!?” xD I offered 🙂 Getting bent out of shape about this seems weird. If my intentions aren’t honest, then I can’t rly get mad at ppl for accepting by saying that their intentions aren’t honest o_O And if my intentions ARE honest, then I’m glad they accepted! 😀

*bops*

:3

Also I wear bunny and cat hats all the time xD I am clearly playing to the animal gaze! xDDDD

I once kissed a stormtrooper wearing my cat hat! 😀

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

NWO, I guarantee that everything you think you know about 1955 is based on old television shows. A handful of people, mostly in the western world (mostly the U.S.), benefited directly from the economic boom following World War II and suddenly every woman from that era was Donna-fucking-Reed. All women were docile, satisfied homemakers, no one ever had sex outside of marriage, marital monogamy was at 100% and ethnic minorities loved being Pullman Porters and tenant farmers.

Look, women dress up for a lot of different reasons. If a woman is dressed in a way that you find attractive she may very well be hoping to attract the attention of some men. That doesn’t mean she’s trying to attract your attention, specifically. Your interest may very well just be collateral damage that she’d prefer to ignore.

Some men love women in jeans and a t-shirt. Does that mean that every woman walking around in the basic American uniform is trying to attract men?

You’re free to think whatever you like about the way different women dress themselves. And if you’re attracted to a woman you can express that in any manner that doesn’t violate her personal space or bodily integrity.

And any woman has the right to tell you to kick rocks. That’s equality. One form of it, at any rate.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

@Nobinayamu no no no.. you have it wrong… like w/ Asianphiles… I CHOSE to be Asian to attract them! xD If I DIDN’T want to attract them, why am I going out looking like an Asian person!? xD Altho sometimes my Caucasian skin is at the cleaners, and y’know, being a Klingon is so last year xD

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

Questions, questions, questions, all I do is answer questions. So heres mine.

1) Have any of you women ever gotten free stuff from men? Drink, movie, meal, jewelry, anything?

2) Have any of you ever worn skimpy clothing, make up, perfume, ect? If so why? And don’t tell me to feel good aboout yourselves unless you do these things when you’re alone in equal proportions.

3) If you’ve had/have a steady boyfriend/husband and he like to talk to other women and flirt would that be ok? If said boyfriend/husband said I don’t want you wearing revealing clothing/make up, ect because it attracts other mens attention, what would you tell him?

Shaenon
9 years ago

Oh, MRAL, I had not seen the lovely conversation in the other thread where you announced that lots of women deserve to be beaten and you’d do it yourself if you thought you could get away with it. I feel so stupid for ever trying to give you helpful advice. I hope you get some good medication for whatever the hell is causing these feelings in you, but I’m done with you, you nasty little fuck.

But first, just to keep things in perspective, the updated list of Crimes Against MRAL:

1. Strange women he passes in the street do not drop what they’re doing and beg to have sex with him.

2. This one time, in an elevator, he said hi to a girl? And she said hi back? But it wasn’t a really enthusiastic hi?

3. He applied for an internship that went to a female classmate, so she must have gotten it just because she’s a woman.

Remember, when he tells people who have been assaulted that they don’t know what real suffering is, this is what he has in mind.

amandajane5
amandajane5
9 years ago

“C’mon now, women dress up to attract mens attention, period.”

And you know this because of what? Citation needed.

I've been looking through my jewelry tonight because my cousin's getting married tomorrow and I want to look nice. I adore my cousin and he's a super-nice guy and I don't want to show up at his wedding looking like I don't care. I do! I think his fiancée is lovely, I've known her for many years, and it's a happy celebration! But then, I'm already married, and a pretty large majority of the attendants will be family…who am I dressing up for?

The mysteries of life…so easily solved by talking to people.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

NWO and MRAL: FUCK YOU BOTH.

NWOaf, you are a complete headcase. Yes, the 50’s were a sterling time to be a woman. Sarcasm, do you understand it, motherfucker?

MRAL: too bad you don’t get to decide which assaults are legitimate, but thanks for trying.

amandajane5
amandajane5
9 years ago

Damnit end > – if someone could fix that I’d appreciate it.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

Kirbywarp, I dress up -whatever that means- all the time. It’s an important part of my work to project an image that is stylish and slightly aspirational without being showy. It’s a fine line to walk, sartorially, especially since at heart I’m an old school art nerd who spent the first part of my adult life in exclusively creative work and dressed to please no one but myself.

Understand, I don’t have a dress code like some of my friends who are lawyers or work in business. There are no strict rules about hose and hem lengths. There’s just and underlying understanding that how the people I interact with feel about me, and the image I project, will directly influence their desire to work with me and pay me. So I dress to offer a pleasing appearance, generally.

And to be told on a regular basis how great my shoes are. My shoes are great.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

To ppl: answer my question up there first 🙂 then you can deign the other questions if you want :3 But my question is more important! (also more fun and not ideologically based :3 It’s not a trick or a trap xD Many Bothans died to bring you this question!)

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

When will people get it through their heads that I DON’T WANT TO BEAT WOMEN. I just think some PEOPLE deserve to be taught manners, some of whom are probably women. Get the picture? I actually probably wouldn’t be able to because I’m weak.

SallyStrange
SallyStrange
9 years ago

NWOaf, I’m not going to answer any of your asinine questions unless you first answer mine:

Why the fuck do you care what a woman’s motivation is for dressing one way or another? Assuming she’s not your girlfriend or wife, of course.

If you can answer that I promise I’ll answer your asinine and pointless questions, whatever you think that will get you.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

So violence is the way to teach manners? I’m pretty sure that wasn’t covered by Emily Post.

SallyStrange
SallyStrange
9 years ago

When will people get it through their heads that I DON’T WANT TO BEAT WOMEN.

Right, you just fantasize about violence against women because it DOESN’T appeal to you. Do you even read the things you write?

theLaplaceDemon
theLaplaceDemon
9 years ago

Hi all,
Un-lurking to make a sociological point.

The entire concept of particular clothes being sexy or attractive IS societal, actually. The whole notion that certain clothes are “slutty” is not inherent to the clothes themselves, but rather a societal perception of those clothes. Take your clothes, NWO – the shorts and t-shirt. In various places at various times (including present-day), those shorts – showing off a bit of leg – would be considered OBSCENE for a woman to wear. Now we consider them modest. In other times and places (yes, including now) nudity isn’t considered particularly “slutty,” or worthy of attention at all. There is nothing inherent about a particular way of dressing that is slutty/appropriate/modest/what-have-you. It is in fact, societal norms that govern that. An individual does have some control over how they react to that of course, but to get to that in my next point:

Well, yes, I think a lot of women (though I’ve never actually seen anyone try to get stats on this) still dress in ways they find sexy when alone at home. I know I do. Why? Because my feeling sexy isn’t inherently tied to other people – sometimes it’s just kinda nice to feel that way, y’know?

But the whole attention thing – saying that a woman deserves to get harassed when where clothes perceived as sexy is her fault is like saying it’s your fault if your house gets robbed because you have a “welcome” outside the front door. Even if you find a woman sexy or attractive, even if she gets your ATTENTION (gasp), YOU ARE STILL RESPONSIBLE for acting like a decent human being. I can walk outside in a short skirt knowing full well that I might be interacting with some stereotypes that I do not like, but just the same way I wouldn’t treat an attractive shirtless dude with respect, I expect to be treated with respect.

But hey, maybe I’m misunderstanding the whole argument. And maybe whenever this gets out of new-person moderation you’ll try to explain it to me. Because I fail to see the logical connections between revealing clothes = bad. Especially when, more and more, revealing clothes are becoming more culturally normative for young women.

Apologies for the wordy comment…back to lurking.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

Nobinayamu: Hooray, I’m not crazy! Thanks.

NWO: (I know I know, I’m a guy, but I thought it’d be fun)

1) I’ve accepted free food from my girlfriend at points. And we’ve had sex before. Am I a slut now?

2) Eh, I’ve never really worn anything sexy, I don’t care much about how I look as long as I’m clean and comfortable. I have dressed up before, for more formal occasions though, though I don’t usually have ladies on my brain when I do so.

3) I’m torn on this one. Technically I’m fine with “flirting,” hell I do it too, probably without realizing it. But I’ve had a bad experience with a former girlfriend where I was dumped because I “didn’t set enough limits,” and she ended up having to choose between me an someone else. *shrug* Dunno, I haven’t had much experience yet, so who knows where the road I’m taking will lead.

The problem is that its hard (for me at least) to differentiate flirting with being really friendly. Its not that I think every girl is flirting with me, I just can’t tell the difference. My guess is that overprotective men can’t either. Thus, when their girlfriend hangs out with guys, they jump to “flirting! cheating! screwing, oh my!” So I wouldn’t be okay with my girlfriend saying I can’t “flirt” with other girls.

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

Hellkell, what do you know about the 50s? You act like you were there and know all about the morals and ethics of the time. By the way, the “docile” women as you say weren’t docile, they were loyal. You’ve done what feminism does best taken the good quality loyaly and turned it into the lie of being docile. No doubt the bad men forced this docile behavior on women lest they get a stern beating. Which is par for the course since men beat women regularly back then. So were contantly told anyway.

SallyStrange
SallyStrange
9 years ago

Are you really going to contend that violence against women in the 1950s is a conspiracy theory, NWOaf?

katz
9 years ago

MRAL: So…you don’t want to beat women, you just want certain women to be beaten for you?

If you mention wanting violence to happen to people, everyone is going to think you are violent. If you don’t want people to think you are violent, don’t mention violent things you want to happen. If you can’t avoid talking about your violent fantasies, then you are violent, period.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

I dun wear coats or jackets indoors in equal measure. o_o;; I didn’t know those were slutty xD

I’ve NEVER worn shoes indoors, ever xD SLUTTY SLUTTY SHOES!!!

I learn something new every day!

THEN AGAIN my giant hoodie of super doom seems to be super revealing and slutty too xDDDDD

Given how often I spend in my home wearing almost nothing, and that I sleep in almost nothing 8 hours a day… even in the winter… xD Yeah it IS unequal measure xD BY FAR xDDDDD

Is it possible to answer those questions btw without being called a liar btw? xD Oh right.. unifying theory of everything AND mind-reading! xD

*mind being read* :O ruh roh! defenses breached! xD

Ami’s mind:

“Don’t try to frighten us with your snarky ways, Lady Angelwings. Your sad devotion to that ancient feminism has not helped you conjure up a rich husband, or given you enough equality to not be using men to buy you robotic parts to build a giant laser cat mech…”

>.>

xD

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

Basically Sallystrange I just want an honest answer. I want women to admit that “yes” we dress up to get attention from men. We like the way it feels when every man within eyeshot looks at us. We like being sexual objects.

Thats what I want the honest to goodness truth.

theLaplaceDemon
theLaplaceDemon
9 years ago

oops, failed at formatting…sorry!

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

@Kirbywarp no, cuz you’re a guy that’s had sex… you’re not a slut you’re a “FUCKING LUCKY BASTARD GODDAMIT IT WHY CAN’T IT BE ME!” xDDDD

zombie rotten mcdonald

. By the way, the “docile” women as you say weren’t docile, they were loyal

…and medicated.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

So the only “honest” answer is the one you “know”? xD

I wish men would answer me honestly when I ask them if they’re actually invaders from Dimension X xD They always lie, so unfortunately I have to remove their brains from their bodies and put it into an occasionally scarf wearing giant robot xD

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Uh, no, NWO, were you there? I made no mention of docility, that was another poster who claimed all of your 50’s knowledge was gleaned from TV.