The Men’s Rights subreddit on Reddit is awash in mini-manifestos. My favorite of the most recent batch, a rousing 3-part rant running under the title “Do not fear them!”
Who is “them,” you ask?
Women who might just decide that they don’t really want to have sex with some dude who keeps going on about how men are the most oppressed group in the world.
Responding, apparently, to a comment in an earlier thread suggesting “that being publicly vocal about the way men’s rights are trampled on and ignored is a great way to lose the opportunity of getting laid,” manifesto writer Kuppers argues that it just ain’t so — but when it is, just bite your tongue for as long as it takes to get into her pants.
He starts off with a strange variant on the notion that there are plenty of fish in the sea. If you feel that women won’t want to have sex with your Men’s-Rights-espousing self, Kuppers suggests, it’s
because your brain was conditioned in a small communal/tribal setting. A group of angry women was a serious threat to your prospects of reproduction. As you know, women often act like herd animals, and view acceptance and appreciation from their peers of their choice of man to be important. This is completely moot today. There are millions of fish in the sea.
Aside from that final truism I have no fucking idea what he’s talking about. I don’t recall growing up in anything that might possibly be considered – literally or figuratively – a “tribal setting” ruled over by a group – sorry, a herd – of “angry women” hell-bent on keeping me from reproducing. Is this a common experience? Also, I have precisely zero interest in “reproduction.” Indeed, I sort of make it a policy to only have sex with women who are at least as interested in preventing reproduction as I am.
On to point two in this curious document, which is that ladies love dudes with strong opinions:
Women, while they do not always explicitly say so and sometimes contradict so, sincerely do appreciate a man who has strong internal beliefs and principles, and does not compromise that for the sake of assuaging someone else’s sensitivities, including theirs. A man who is willing to pretend he is something he is not, isn’t attractive on a deep masculine level to women.
True, up to a point, but you might want to keep all that shit about women being angry reproduction-threatening herd animals to yourself. That might not go over so well on your first Starbucks coffee date. Or ever. Protip: Misogyny aside, very few people want to get with people who refer to sex as “reproduction.”
But if your desire for sex outweighs your manly desire to be truthful about your obnoxious beliefs, well, that’s all good too – if by “all good” you mean “you can still have angry sex with women you despise if you just keep your pie hole shut for a few hours.” Or, as Kuppers puts it in his third and final point, which he apparently doesn’t realize completely contradicts point number two:
The kind of woman who a) wants you to be subordinate to her crazy foaming feminist nonsense, and b) has no tolerance or patience for your concerns, is not worth anything more than a cheap, well-protected fuck anyway. Fine, keep your mouth shut for the couple of hours it takes to get her into bed, but you’d be mad to pursue anything more serious with a woman like that.
Men’s Rightsers – such romantics at heart!
Ami, again I speak from personal experience. I’ve had women ask me to go shopping with them, and the request has always come from a woman I was already good friends with. From this I deduce that “Would you like to go shopping with me?” is not a question one asks of a casual acquaintance, though YMMV. And given that the request has always come from a good friend, the Code of the Woosters applies: never let a pal down. So I’ve always agreed.
@Johnny but I alrdy said that nobody asked nebody and it’s not a good friends situation 😮
I didn’t mean in all situations, just in that context 🙂
@Johnny thank you for your input tho 😀
Ami: I’ve been wondering about your question since yesterday. As not-a-straight-guy, I can’t approach it from that point of view, and as a straight woman, I am actually baffled by your question. I honestly can’t think of any reason other than “He really, really wants to spend time with you, under any circumstances” for him going, given what you said (he was tired, you didn’t ask him to come, you’re not really good friends with him). I can think of some really strange unknowable singular circumstances like: He was sad or just went through something really difficult and didn’t want to be alone, or he was overtired and giddy and didn’t want to go to sleep. Also, you seem like a fun person, so maybe he just wanted to hang out with you, have fun, and get to know you a little better.
That said, I’m guessing you would have picked up on something extra from him personally that we can’t know. If you’re leaning toward “He likes me!”, I think that’s a pretty likely guess.
Do you like him?
@Bee maaaaaybeeee >______>
*blush* xD
also ty for your thoughts 🙂 *hug*
Let’s see how the questions work with a genderqueer bisexual:
1) Sure. I also get free stuff from women. I get free stuff from random strangers. I am rather cheap and I always get enjoyment out of free things. I haven’t bought a pen in years. Some of the best free things I got: a copy of an out of print book about AIDs (that might sound morbid, but AIDS: Cultural Awareness, Cultural Activism is an absolutely brilliant book with some of the most awesome queer pieces ever written), canvas shopping bags, a good portion of my tie dyed t-shirts, a duffel bag, a coffee cup, a pair of skillets, a vase…I have lots of stuff I got for free. Shoot, I am a university student, one year in undergrad I co-ordinated my schedule around student activities during their recruitment time and didn’t pay for my own supper for two weeks straight.
But, it is worth noting that if there is an expectation of performance, it really is not a free gift, it is a bribe. The fact is that you do not think these things are gifts, you think they are bribes or payments, things which are certainly not gifts.
2) Define “skimpy clothing”. I wear cologne, which is perfume, but with a butcher name. 😉 Oh, and I sometimes paint my nails, generally black, but I have other colors. Still, I wear what I like, and grant others the same respect. I do not think anything a man or woman wears makes them less deserving of respect. People’s bodies are their bodies, not objects. I can appreciate a person’s looks without being possessive or intrusive. Wanting to have sex with someone and treating them like an equal human being are not mutually exclusive. Also, I am aware that the world and everyone in it does not revolve around me.
3) I am not really bothered by flirting (honestly, I have a damned hard time even noticing it is happening). I am polyamorus and not a jealous partner. As to the clothes-I would not let them police mine and I would not police theirs.
Query 1: Yes, and I resented it. I hate getting gifts unless proper gift giving occasions. I do however like to get a lot of gifts on those occasions. Yes person reading that means I want a lot of gifts for my birthday.
Query 2: Depends on the reason for dressing up-usually because one is supposed to dress nice.
Query 3: People should not control their partners period.
I once had a conversation with a guy who was asking why women “can’t look past the outside” and see how wonderful he is inside.
I asked him why he couldn’t do the same thing with women, and he replied, “Because I need to get turned on.”
I know MRAL has graciously said he’s “rethinking” his stance on “fat chicks”, but I can’t take anyone seriously who moans and whines about his own perceived lack of qualities then tosses out there how he “hates fat chicks”.
It’s at that point I have to wonder how seriously they’ve ever approached a women who’s not “hot” but could be a perfect intellectual and emotional match.
NWOSlave: Well Plymouth if you’re a slut and someone treats you like a slut don’t get in a huff about it. You’re a slut.
What does it mean to “treat me like a slut”? Like, have sex with me? I guess my fiance does that all the time. Uh, yeah, not in a huff about that. Rather enjoy it.
Whoa, only attractive people are good enough for you aye? You’ll mock MRAL if he dares calls a woman a fatty, yet only attractive are good enough for the lovely Plymouth and her 9X used goods. This would be the hypocrisy, (spelled correctly) to which I was alluding.
I only have sex with people who are attractive TO ME! Otherwise what’s the point? Some of those people are *gasp* people MRAL would call “fatties”. I call them “hotties”. Somehow I think my approach is nicer. And, uh, not at all hypocritical. Because the people who are not attractive to me are just that… not attractive to me. They’re attractive to someone else instead – world takes all types.
What, you think that because I found more than 9 attractive men who wanted to sleep with me I should lower my standards and take all comers? That doesn’t make ANY SENSE! I found 9 hotties to sleep with, which is apparently already 8 too many to be a “nice girl” anymore so I should LOWER my standards why exactly? If I had lower standards I would be sleeping with even MORE MEN. And enjoying it less 😛
BTW I’m engaged now, to a hottie, who knows exactly how “used” my “goods” are and doesn’t care. His “goods” are about as “used” as mine are and I don’t care.
Judging by some of these responses, it appears that the women who comment on this blog are…real, complex human beings, not stereotypes. Who knew?
(Answer: everyone except NWO and his ilk.)
Well, hey, I didn’t know. I assumed they were sockpuppets of the Deros.
Honestly, I wouldn’t feel comfortable in a relationship where my partner paid all the time, even if he was okay with it.
That was one of the reasons I broke up with the millionaire guy, on top of it just not being a great relationship. Being unable to keep up financially made me really uncomfortable. I’m sure lots of people would have no problem with it, but it wasn’t for me.
Reading back over NWO’s posts, he apparently lives in a place where it’s common for women to walk around wearing nothing but a Speedo…and he’s really angry about this. I demand that he tell us where this place is, so more sensible straight men and lesbians can move there.
I thought we women were all made at some factory somewhere.
No wait, that is just a certain type of Republican male.
NWOSlave: I sure never heard one damn good thing men have done on this site.
Then fucking pay more attention. Dozens of us have talked about our awesome boyfriends, husbands, brothers, fathers and friends who are all men who do many awesome things.
Or do you mean men AS A WHOLE MONOLITHIC GROUP? Because, no, you’re never going to hear “men as a monolothic group all did this awesome thing together” because they DIDN’T because men ARE NOT A MONOLITHIC GROUP. The same way WOMEN ARE NOT A MONOLITHIC GROUP. There will also be no talk of “women as a monolithic group all did this awesome thing together”.
But individual men? Or even groups of men? Did awesome things. I hear there was a group of men we refer to as the “founding fathers” who started this here awesome country I live in. That was an awesome thing. Those dudes had flaws and the country they created wasn’t perfect and a whole lot of other people worked on it over time and made it better. But they still get credit for doing a totally awesome thing.
Not nearly the only example, just the first one that came to mind.
If I invite someone to something, I assume I am paying. If I am invited, then I assume I am being paid for. If that is not the case, I make/expect it to be made, plain.
Ami: if it were me, then either it’s a good friend of long standing, or I like them (for the good friend of long standing, there has to have been some sexual tension).
I am something of a clothes horse. I can (and usually do) schlumpf about. I also own suits, and tails and two different dress uniforms (and the required acoutrements to wear them in six different formats).
I need a frock coat, so I can add an ascot. I don’t have morning dress, per se, but I own a linen jacket.
If I decide to dress, I am at least the equal, in snappy to anyone else at the party.
I thought we women were all made at some factory somewhere.
Don’t worry. In the MRA-designed utopia of the future, you will be. Oh yes, you will be.
I very greatly desire to see my husband in a velvet dressing gown. Why did those have to go out of style?
The style I really want to see come back are glam-rock platform high heeled boots for men. Men are sooooo sexy in heels. I was born too late and I missed it 🙁
BTW I did actually convince my fiance to put on a pair of my platform boots once and he looked hotttt in them!! (we have similar enough sized feet that he can wear some of my boots). He said they weren’t his style though so I never convinced him to actually leave the house in them:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/plymouths/3864362698/
(oh look, I think I kinda de-anonymized myself there. Yeah, now you can all search my flickr for pictures of me and stalk me!!)
Nice.
I approve so highly.
Plymouth. I want your boots. And I want David Bowie (or Trent Reznor, squee!) in them dressed as the Goblin King. It’s clear that we members of the vast feminist conspiracy know what we have to do. Our mission, should we choose to accept it, is to bring glam rock back to its former glory, nay, to surpass that glory and make all MRAs bow down in fear and trembling before the almighty power of the mangina platform boots. As Kiss would say, “baby, let’s put the ‘X’ in sex, love is like a muscle and you make me want to flex.” Actually, that’s not a bad pick up line…
I know I’m a bit late to the party (X-Men First Class is an awesome movie, y’all!), but I could not pass this bit up:
I have never gotten a gift from a woman
Maybe that has more to do with the fact that you’re an ass to women than anything else. I expect that if I was bleeding contempt for men from every pore, that men would be less inclined to buy me presents.
And it’s really none of your business what I wear from day to day, or if men give me gifts. Women have given me gifts, too, and I have given many gifts in return. Some days I feel like dressing up, some days I don’t. Some days, my only motivation for wearing skimpy clothes is because it’s fucking hot out. And skimpy doesn’t even necessarily mean sexy – I can rock jeans and a blouse as easily as a minidress.
And you can’t do a damn thing about it.
*pant*pant* UGH! I made it to the end!
Wow, whatever convo went on with MRAL and sexual assault, I’m so glad I missed that. I wanted to be sympathetic to him, but then I remembered he hated fat chicks, so no. No sympathy whatsoever – if he doesn’t want to be “spit on”, then he needs to not “spit on” other people. He doesn’t seem to realize the hypocrisy in being rejected for his eye or giant flaming ball of bitterness and then turn around and talk about how all fat chicks are [insert dumb overused insult here].
As for dressing, I dress how I want to. Not that Slaver cares, because he’ll just say the same shit over and over again, pulling out an endless supply of turds. I really wonder what he would think of someone grocery shopping in heels – something I do on occasion because it’s awesome (and then I can reach the top shelves better!). Also wearing heels while wearing sweats, because life is performance art and the looks I get are funny. Then again, I’m pretty random.
Q1: Yep. And I’ve given guys things, with no expectation of reciprocation. I bought my boyfriend flowers at the farmer’s market last week because I was thinking about him. And actually, I broke up with a guy who kept getting me relatively expensive stuff. I never asked for it and it was really uncomfortable, because I kept telling him I wasn’t ready for a serious relationship. I guess that makes me a horrible person?
Dates are usually split, or currently a rotation between me, my boy, my best friend and sometimes her boy. It’s easier and we never go anyplace expensive, so it evens out. I’ve had guys insist on paying the first date and that usually makes it the last date, since I don’t date guys who ignore my explicit request in favor of tradition.
Q2: I dress up, but rarely “sexy.” Would spangled broom skirts (down to the ankle) and tie-dye tank tops really count? I love bright colors and shiny things because they make me happy.
And my perfume collection is huge because I love to smell things. Grave loam and roses? Check. Fresh cranberries? Check. Sliced cucumber? Check. Freshly oiled hardwood? Check. I wear something different each day, and rarely bother to match it to anything but my mood. Although the boyfriend is lucky that he likes spicy blends, since that’s about half of my collection.
Q3: I’ve never dated a guy who wanted to flirt with other women. (Or, actually, me. I’ve got a thing for shy guys.) But I actually think an open relationship would work well for me, so long as it’s mutually respectful.
And if a guy wants to tell me what to wear, then I get to return the favor. I’m pretty sure that would cure anyone who wanted to control me. 🙂 Because he’d be in a kilt, all the time. I’m a fan of easy access.