So Esquire magazine recently posted a list of “The 75 Books Every Man Should Read” on their website. Esquire being Esquire – that is to say, a men’s magazine that had its glory days in the era of Mad Men and that seems to be aimed mostly at old farts (and aspiring old farts) — only one book of the 75 was written by a woman. (That’s 98.67% male, for those of you with lady brains who can’t do the math.)
The internet being the internet, some people noticed that the list was a wee bit heavy on the dudes, even for a men’s magazine, and pointed this out. The bloggers at the Joyland Publishing blog suggested that while the books on Esquire’s list were “mostly fantastic,” it might behoove men to pick up a book or two written by a woman once in a while. And so, with the help of some of their readers, the two assembled a list of “250 Books By Women All Men Should Read.” (Why 250 and not, say, 75? Because they got a lot of suggestions.)
Here’s a little one-question quiz for you all: What title did W. F. Price at The Spearhead give his post on the controversy?
A) “Some Great Suggestions for Books by Women You Guys Might Want to Read.”
B) “Did You Know There Are Female Authors Besides The Chick That Wrote Harry Potter?”
C) “Feminist Publishers: Force Men to Read Women’s Lit”
Yep, the correct answer is C, of course. Apparently a couple of bloggers suggesting some books by women that men “should” read is some kind of Gestapo-like imposition upon men by “Feminist Publishers.” Price grouses:
[I]it strikes me as rather mean-spirited of females in the publishing industry to denounce even ineffectual efforts to introduce men to literature. By all accounts, publishing has come to be dominated by women, and men are reading far fewer books than women these days. Given this state of affairs, you’d think that the women in the industry might be a bit gracious and let the boys pick and choose which titles interest them.
But of course that won’t do, because feminists must find fault with any and everything men are involved in. …
The implication [of the Joyland Publishing blog post] is that men should be forced by political pressure to read female writers (sometimes these feminists come off as whiny, annoying girlfriends complaining that “he just won’t listen to me!”).
Or, you know, it might just be that the writers of the blog post, and those who wrote in with suggestions, really enjoyed the books in question and thought that dudes might just enjoy them too. Sort of like when a friend tells you that you should totally watch the movie Dogtooth, because it is so fascinating and creepy and awesome. Or when I tell you right now that you should go watch Jane Austen’s Fight Club on Funny or Die.
Naturally, the comments from Spearheaders were even more ignorant and obtuse than Price’s post. The basic theme: Bitches can’t write for shit (as far as I know).
In case you think I am offering an unfair characterization of the, er, debate, here’s one Spearheader’s contribution to the discussion:
when a man says “no, I won’t read your literature”, you have to respect that, bitch.
And another’s:
I basically do not read anything a wimminz has written, not even in my favourite genre of science fiction, because every single time I have tried they have been unmitigated fucking crap full of feminazi girl power bullshit and emotional baggage and basically very little hard SF…
And still another’s:
I never read anything written by women unless it happens to be instructional and related to work. Pretty much all the fiction I’ve ever read is by and for males. If I read some non-fiction for fun it’s always got a male author. I realized a while back that my cd collection is about 98% male. When I was a kid I never thought about it, it just came naturally. Now that I’m older I intentionally avoid anything by women.
It’s always,er, instructive to see what some random guy who apparently reads mostly instructional manuals has to say about the literary controversies of the day.
There were, of course, more thoughtful analyses, like this earnest comment from the excitable, exclamation-point-happy David K. Meller:
Women write for an audience of their own level–to wit themselves! Most men are simply too intelligent to be interested in what passes for literature scribbled by women! …
Correct me if I am wrong, but is most woman’s “literature” one more kvetch klatsch of women–or girls–getting together to complain about, to defeat, or to evade the workings of us evil, letcherous, abusive, horrible M-E-N! There is no point in men reading such drivel …
There may be better days coming; when women are once again taught the arts of pleasing men, in their creating a comfortable environment for the chosen man in their lives, and when they again will use their ability to read to discover new and better ways to do this, and their ability to write to communicate these truths to others of their sex! Until that happens, literacy for women, much less dominance in authorship, editing, and publishing has been, and is, a BLOODY MESS for everyone, especially men!!
PEACE AND FREEDOM!!
David K. Meller
Yes, women should really only be allowed to read and write if they are reading or writing instructional manuals on how to cook and give better blow jobs, possibly at the same time.
PEACE AND FREEDOM!! to you too, good sir.
Speaking of which — the blowjob bit, not the PEACE AND FREEDOM!! — the commenter calling himself dragnet suggested that young men such as himself were simply too busy to read much of anything. They have other priorities:
The vast majority of my reading is for work, research, and classes. …
Frankly, I’d rather be getting laid than reading a novel after a grueling work week. The three or four hours I sometimes have free on the weekend when I’m not working or working out or sleeping or eating, I’d rather be out with my friends or getting serviced by whatever girl I’m with at the time.
It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a penis, must be in want of some girl to service it.
PEACE AND FREEDOM!!1!!
Anyway, ladies and manginas, any good lady books you want to suggest for the dudes of the world?
I never said I would, only that I’d like to.
@T4T Well, MRAL was trying hard to get us to say something, what with all the ‘Wymmymyn’ and ‘Fynynists are bitches’ etc talk. I’m surprised no one spoke up sooner.
@Nobby, not sure, because like you I don’t pay too much attention to the critics either.
However, I think the story about the original publishing gives a clue; at first, it was thought to be not possible for a women to have written it, at first, because women were thought to be incapable of writing, then because of the subject matter.
I suspect that it is currently thought to be allowed due to age, so it is grandfathered in as literature, before skiffy and horror emerged as genres.
Nobby
Yeah I know, I have that conversation with my kids all the time. “But dad, he kept bugging me”
I adore Stephen King but all of my favorite of his stuff is older. Carrie, Christine, The Stand, The Tommyknockers, Salem’s Lot, It, Firestarter, Pet Semetary. His newer stuff, well, some if it is good but some of it is just awful. I didn’t think much of Cell or From a Buick 8. The most feminist thing I read of his (in that it was about a woman taking revenge on her abusive husband) was Rose Madder and I really didn’t like that.
Sadly it seems Zombie and Mr K. are trying hard to remind him.
yeah, guilty as charged. Sorry. I will step off and let Lady VVS and others continue trying to engage.
Really because I love WWZ just because of how it took us outside of the American “cowboy-up” perspective on zombies. Instead showing us how events or responses in other nations would be unique, just like ‘Calcutta: Lord of Nerves” by Poppy Z. Brite’s in the anthology “The Living Dead”
Or, if you want to look outside of zombie fiction, “Metro 2033”
@T4T Well, Kobold did nothing but respond in kind. If MRAL had simply stuck to talking about books and not waxing on about the ‘horrible wymyns’ ‘forcing’ him to read ‘fymynist’ books no one would care, and we’d still be having a perfectly reasonable conversation.
Plugging for GRRM, you guys know that the fifth ASOIAF novel is finally done? GRRM ran into some writer’s block but after five years, it’s going to be published in July! I’ve been looking forward to this for years. He’s doing a book tour next month and I’m going to meet him when he stops in Boston. This old fat guy is one of my heroes.
Neither Zombie nor Mr. K are responsible for MRAL’s internal anger problem. Don’t let MRAL off the hook by blaming others when he lashes out, which he would do anyway regardless of what anyone else says or does.
I agree with Plymouth Re: Stephen King, but I enjoyed Rose Madder. I stopped reading fiction a long time ago, though – the last female-written fiction books I couldn’t live without were Gone With the Wind and The Thorn Birds.
@Plymouth, I kind of agree about King’s more recent stuff, but I kind of get the impression that he is trying to move beyond the box he has built for himself, work out of his comfort zone. I quite liked Blaze, not supernatural at all.
But I liked From A Buick 6 and Under the Dome also. And the flipped universes in The Regulators and Desperation was interesting, while I found Duma Key to be really good.
I’ve been enjoying the Game of Thrones series on HBO recently. I keep having to ask my fiance to explain who the characters are though – without having read the books it’s hard to keep track of them all. I think when the season ends I’ll read the book and see what I missed.
Desparation I thought was OK, not great. I actually have a copy of Duma Key that I haven’t gotten around to reading yet. So I certainly haven’t given up on him!
I thought From a Buick 8 was meh. It was too slow and there wasn’t enough of a sense of danger. Having the bulk of the story be a flashback was a mistake.
Under the Dome, also, I thought could have used an editor. The ending was weak too. I still liked it, but not a lot.
Also, note that the iBook store has Frankenstein in their free section, for the iPad enabled.
@Zombie about Frankenstein: yeah, that kind of thinking is what makes me so skeptical of critics sometimes. “oh, that’s okay because it’s old.” Writing is writing. If you don’t like the genre that’s fine, don’t read it, but don’t pretend that it’s somehow ‘lesser’ for being written in a different way.
Anywhoo… >.< I actually haven't read much of his recent stuff. I recently listened through the Gunslinger series twice, and my favorites are his older stuff, especially IT. I'll have to pick up something new, soon, and see if I agree.
I have to say, though, that movies never really do him justice at all. IT was a good mini-series as far as mini-series go, but had absolutely nothing on the book.
Chiming in with more GRRM love! I have loved those books ever since I first discovered them. The sexual violence is difficult to read, but the characters are fascinating. Particularly the female characters. He avoids the one-dimensional archetypes that continually pop up in fantasy fiction (hello, Robert Jordan. Greetings, JRR Tolkien).
@MRAL; well, different strokes.
Great (or really good) women authors:
George Eliot
Jane Austen
MFK Fisher
Iris Murdoch
Flannery O’Connor
H.D. (poet)
Lorrie Moore
Beryl Bainbridge
Virginia Woolf
Peal S. Buck
Alice Munro
Eudora Welty
Sarah Vowell
Jeannette Winterson
Agatha Christie
There’s been a kind of subdued buzz about writing prizes and gender over the past few years. Women’s writing is seen as “small and domestic,” while men write “ambitious” works; and ambition always is seen as more worthy of notice, even if the small, domestic novel is better crafted.
From the linked article:
But that’s the problem with sexism. It doesn’t happen because people — male or female — think women suck. It happens for the same reason a sommelier always pours a little more in a man’s wine glass (check it!), or that that big, hearty man in the suit seems like he’d be a better manager. It’s not that women shouldn’t be up for the big awards. It’s just that when it comes down to the wire, we just kinda feel like men . . . I don’t know . . . deserve them.
The above may be true in the case of writing prize judges. In the case of the Spearhead commenters, I’m sure its both that they think women suck and that men are more deserving of a read.
@Nobby; IT was one of the only made-for-TV movies that ever scared the crap out of me, but they muffed the ending.
Tim Curry was SUPERB.
The “big” comment is heightism, not sexism. A tall woman is seen as a good manager too.
“Wymyn author” is a term I use for female authors who would not get the attention they get if they were male. “Women authors”, like Virginia Woolf, get the attention they get because they write good books.
Which is exactly what I said it was: a thing you made up because you think it sounds witty and cutting, but in reality is depressingly stupid.
yeah, that kind of thinking is what makes me so skeptical of critics sometimes.
Yeah, me too. Although not always; last week I received a Major Award (although not as a writer)! In this case, the jury OBVIOUSLY was responding to my innate ability, consummate skill, and considerable charm; and, of course, that I am a man. [this is where some kind of smiley goes]
@Zombie Oh, yeah, it was a great show. And I’m not sure about the ending, King goes really far out at that point and I’m not sure there was a good way to translate that to screen. But have you read the book? It’s like the intensity is just kicked up quite a few notches. Maybe it’s just me, but while the movie was cool and scary at parts, the book actually freaked me out really intensely. Heck, I’m usually pretty good with horror, but every few weeks I’ll be in a bathroom and just know that I’ll turn around and see a balloon behind me. Gah.
Mr. Al: The “big” comment is heightism, not sexism.
Here’s something to try: Read words in context. Don’t just pick out a word that excites you and run with it. Read ALL the words.