So Esquire magazine recently posted a list of “The 75 Books Every Man Should Read” on their website. Esquire being Esquire – that is to say, a men’s magazine that had its glory days in the era of Mad Men and that seems to be aimed mostly at old farts (and aspiring old farts) — only one book of the 75 was written by a woman. (That’s 98.67% male, for those of you with lady brains who can’t do the math.)
The internet being the internet, some people noticed that the list was a wee bit heavy on the dudes, even for a men’s magazine, and pointed this out. The bloggers at the Joyland Publishing blog suggested that while the books on Esquire’s list were “mostly fantastic,” it might behoove men to pick up a book or two written by a woman once in a while. And so, with the help of some of their readers, the two assembled a list of “250 Books By Women All Men Should Read.” (Why 250 and not, say, 75? Because they got a lot of suggestions.)
Here’s a little one-question quiz for you all: What title did W. F. Price at The Spearhead give his post on the controversy?
A) “Some Great Suggestions for Books by Women You Guys Might Want to Read.”
B) “Did You Know There Are Female Authors Besides The Chick That Wrote Harry Potter?”
C) “Feminist Publishers: Force Men to Read Women’s Lit”
Yep, the correct answer is C, of course. Apparently a couple of bloggers suggesting some books by women that men “should” read is some kind of Gestapo-like imposition upon men by “Feminist Publishers.” Price grouses:
[I]it strikes me as rather mean-spirited of females in the publishing industry to denounce even ineffectual efforts to introduce men to literature. By all accounts, publishing has come to be dominated by women, and men are reading far fewer books than women these days. Given this state of affairs, you’d think that the women in the industry might be a bit gracious and let the boys pick and choose which titles interest them.
But of course that won’t do, because feminists must find fault with any and everything men are involved in. …
The implication [of the Joyland Publishing blog post] is that men should be forced by political pressure to read female writers (sometimes these feminists come off as whiny, annoying girlfriends complaining that “he just won’t listen to me!”).
Or, you know, it might just be that the writers of the blog post, and those who wrote in with suggestions, really enjoyed the books in question and thought that dudes might just enjoy them too. Sort of like when a friend tells you that you should totally watch the movie Dogtooth, because it is so fascinating and creepy and awesome. Or when I tell you right now that you should go watch Jane Austen’s Fight Club on Funny or Die.
Naturally, the comments from Spearheaders were even more ignorant and obtuse than Price’s post. The basic theme: Bitches can’t write for shit (as far as I know).
In case you think I am offering an unfair characterization of the, er, debate, here’s one Spearheader’s contribution to the discussion:
when a man says “no, I won’t read your literature”, you have to respect that, bitch.
And another’s:
I basically do not read anything a wimminz has written, not even in my favourite genre of science fiction, because every single time I have tried they have been unmitigated fucking crap full of feminazi girl power bullshit and emotional baggage and basically very little hard SF…
And still another’s:
I never read anything written by women unless it happens to be instructional and related to work. Pretty much all the fiction I’ve ever read is by and for males. If I read some non-fiction for fun it’s always got a male author. I realized a while back that my cd collection is about 98% male. When I was a kid I never thought about it, it just came naturally. Now that I’m older I intentionally avoid anything by women.
It’s always,er, instructive to see what some random guy who apparently reads mostly instructional manuals has to say about the literary controversies of the day.
There were, of course, more thoughtful analyses, like this earnest comment from the excitable, exclamation-point-happy David K. Meller:
Women write for an audience of their own level–to wit themselves! Most men are simply too intelligent to be interested in what passes for literature scribbled by women! …
Correct me if I am wrong, but is most woman’s “literature” one more kvetch klatsch of women–or girls–getting together to complain about, to defeat, or to evade the workings of us evil, letcherous, abusive, horrible M-E-N! There is no point in men reading such drivel …
There may be better days coming; when women are once again taught the arts of pleasing men, in their creating a comfortable environment for the chosen man in their lives, and when they again will use their ability to read to discover new and better ways to do this, and their ability to write to communicate these truths to others of their sex! Until that happens, literacy for women, much less dominance in authorship, editing, and publishing has been, and is, a BLOODY MESS for everyone, especially men!!
PEACE AND FREEDOM!!
David K. Meller
Yes, women should really only be allowed to read and write if they are reading or writing instructional manuals on how to cook and give better blow jobs, possibly at the same time.
PEACE AND FREEDOM!! to you too, good sir.
Speaking of which — the blowjob bit, not the PEACE AND FREEDOM!! — the commenter calling himself dragnet suggested that young men such as himself were simply too busy to read much of anything. They have other priorities:
The vast majority of my reading is for work, research, and classes. …
Frankly, I’d rather be getting laid than reading a novel after a grueling work week. The three or four hours I sometimes have free on the weekend when I’m not working or working out or sleeping or eating, I’d rather be out with my friends or getting serviced by whatever girl I’m with at the time.
It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a penis, must be in want of some girl to service it.
PEACE AND FREEDOM!!1!!
Anyway, ladies and manginas, any good lady books you want to suggest for the dudes of the world?
GRRM is pretty awesome, I’ll agree. I’m really getting into the HBO series (I have a friend who has never read the books, but is following the series, and was shocked and horrified when Ned got stabbed in the leg… I’m waiting for an angry text message from said friend in a few episodes or so). If you like gritty fantasy in that vein, Joe Abercrombie is also a good writer. He’s not up to Martin’s level, but he’s still good.
Martin also wrote another vampire novel, Fevre Dream, which blew my mind by having a happy ending and a fairly low body count of main characters.
Oh, I agree some serious critics have problems with King, I won’t debate that in the least. But I also don’t think that all ‘serious critics’ are the end all and be all of what is good and important. Rodger Ebert, for example, is a ‘serious critic’ for movies, and is way off on a lot of his critiques.
And yes, I would have to fundamentally disagree with the premise that because it isn’t straight fiction, it can’t be important. That, to me, just seems silly and short-sighted.
I’ll agree he is prolific, but I can’t really see that as being a real detriment.
OK, either Nobby is trying to pick a fight with me, or I am doing a SPECTACULARLY poor job of communicating today. Probably the latter.
I don’t see it as a problem either; but I suspect that many serious book critics do.
Oh! Brienne from GRRM’s ASOIAF would be in the top six. She’s a woman who doesn’t get to be an entitled arrogant bitch because she’s not hot, and thus is expected to perform at the level of men. And she does.
I’ll be back with a list later.
I am sure it will be worth the wait.
Okay, I think the problem is I was assuming you hold these opinions as well as simply copying them, so maybe that’s the problem.
And I’m still going to argue against what you say that serious critics say :-p.
I also liked Daenerys from ASOIAF who is a full-on ruler and takes the good with the bad, as opposed to being a slimy bitch who influences things from behind the scenes.
So some of these menz won’t even read non-fiction if a non-penis person wrote it? Oh dear. They are going to miss out on Laura Hillenbrand’s awesome Unbroken.
I think that was actually more than two comments. I should have taken the over, but who could blame me?
I love Barbara Kingsolver. Particularly The Bean Trees. That was hugely transformative book to me when I was growing up! All of you! Go read it!
But what about Catelyn Stark, who was an attractive woman and did precisely what was expected of her as a loyal wife and mother? Or what about Daenerys, who is actually entitled in that she’s the rightful heir to the Iron Throne? Sansa could be said to be arrogant, but another interpretation is just that she’s naive and has never been taught to be self-reliant – she grew up with the assumption that her father was going to take care of her until she got married, and then her husband would take care of her, and she didn’t know how to adapt when it didn’t quite turn out that way. You’re also forgetting Asha Greyjoy, Ygritte, Osha and Meera Reed, some of whom are described as being quite attractive and still kickass.
This blogpost is awesome and hilariously written.
In fact GRRM writes good females in general, who are not moral goddesses and/or superior to men, but flawed and human. I despise The Wheel of Time with every iota of my being for that reason.
Dany and Brienne are my favorites, both probably in my top ten female characters ever, but I also like Asha Greyjoy, Arya, and Sansa.
The problem with Cersei is that she resents being treated differently on account of her gender, but then has no problems seducing the men around her to get what she wants. She also has no sense of perspective or an ability to take the long view on something. Cersei is an awful person, but I think that makes the series better, in that GRRM can have a character that flawed and still give her depth. As much as I hate Cersei, I can nevertheless describe exactly why she’s doing what she’s doing, and her motivations actually aren’t bad. Maybe if her father had taken her seriously and given her a good education when she was younger, rather than just treating her like a marriage pawn, she’d be a better leader now.
MRAL, it surprises me that you’re into Virginia Woolf! She’s a genius and a fantastic writer, but I would definitely describe her as a feminist author. Have you read A Room of One’s Own or Orlando? She’s not beating you over the head with it, but she definitely has clear feminist themes in her work. I’m impressed that you haven’t rejected her entirely for that reason.
MRAL: Brienne is my favorite! I always skip ahead to the Daenerys parts because she’s so fucking badass.
I think that honestly feminist literature is that which portrays women as people. As the saying goes, “not saints, not whores, just women.” 🙂
To be totally honest, I never completely caught on to Woolf’s feminist themes as I was reading her work. I mean, I knew there was a bit of that, but it never came to dominate the work like a lot of fymynyst shit. Add that to the fact that she’s an excellent author on her own merits, and she lived in a time when society actually WAS patriarchal, and it didn’t bother me at all.
After looking her up it seems the feminist themes are more pervasive than I thought- but since I didn’t feel I was beaten over the head with it, that’s just a testament to her skill. And again, she lived in a time where I think it was OK to be feminist.
Almost forgot to mention, Rebecca Johns has a pretty good historical/creepy novel about Erzebet Bathory called the Countess that is worth checking out. MRAL doesn’t have to bother, because it includes feminist themes and is written from a female character’s point of view.
Also, Friend of Zombie.
Most fymynyst work can be summed up in one word: bitching.
Huh. Usually I find these posts enraging (not because of the commentary, which is excellent, but because of the unbridled crazypants misogyny). This, though, is just sad. How bland would my bookshelf be without my Margaret Atwood, Zadie Smith, Chimamanda Adichie, Joyce Carol Oates, Louise Erdrich, Zoe Heller, Tsitsi Dangarembga, Jamaica Kincaid, Jane Austen, Louise Erdrich, Marjane Satrapi, Kim Barnes–actually, never mind, I couldn’t list them all if I tried.
I guess it would be about as bland as if I threw out all my books by male authors too. No more Raymond Chandler, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Sherman Alexie, J.M. Coetzee, Pete Dexter, Salman Rushdie, Charles Bowden, T.S. Eliot…
Just, wow. Price’s apparent refusal to educate himself in the variety of human experience is so depressing I can’t get that mad at him.
*Gasp*
I LOVE Bathory stories, I’ll have to look up that novel next time I’m in a bookstore!
This is my favorite thread, I love talking about books.
“Most fymynyst work can be summed up in one word: bitching.”
Okay folks, can we stop trying to treat this scrub as some distant member in our book club and more like the whining MRA troll that he is?
Guys like this don’t change, they do not see any lights, no life-changing epiphanies are ever made, MRAL is only content when he’s wallowing in the pathetic pit he dug for himself.
I LOVE Bathory stories, I’ll have to look up that novel next time I’m in a bookstore!
DO IT! Make them order it if you have to.
This is my favorite thread, I love talking about books.
See what happens when you forget to be angry?