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"No I won't read your literature … bitch!" and other thoughts on female fiction from the dudes of The Spearhead

This better not be written by some dame!

So Esquire magazine recently posted a list of “The 75 Books Every Man Should Read” on their website.  Esquire being Esquire – that is to say, a men’s magazine that had its glory days in the era of Mad Men and that seems to be aimed mostly at old farts (and aspiring old farts) —  only one book of the 75 was written by a woman.  (That’s 98.67% male, for those of you with lady brains who can’t do the math.)

The internet being the internet, some people noticed that the list was a wee bit heavy on the dudes, even for a men’s magazine, and pointed this out. The bloggers at the Joyland Publishing blog suggested that while the books on Esquire’s list were “mostly fantastic,” it might behoove men to pick up a book or two written by a woman once in a while. And so, with the help of some of their readers, the two assembled a list of “250 Books By Women All Men Should Read.” (Why 250 and not, say, 75? Because they got a lot of suggestions.)

Here’s a little one-question quiz for you all: What title did W. F. Price at The Spearhead give his post on the controversy?

A) “Some Great Suggestions for Books by Women You Guys Might Want to Read.”

B) “Did You Know There Are Female Authors Besides The Chick That Wrote Harry Potter?”

C) “Feminist Publishers: Force Men to Read Women’s Lit”

Yep, the correct answer is C, of course.  Apparently a couple of bloggers suggesting some books by women that men “should” read  is some kind of Gestapo-like imposition upon men by “Feminist Publishers.” Price grouses:

[I]it strikes me as rather mean-spirited of females in the publishing industry to denounce even ineffectual efforts to introduce men to literature. By all accounts, publishing has come to be dominated by women, and men are reading far fewer books than women these days. Given this state of affairs, you’d think that the women in the industry might be a bit gracious and let the boys pick and choose which titles interest them.

But of course that won’t do, because feminists must find fault with any and everything men are involved in. …

The implication [of the Joyland Publishing blog post] is that men should be forced by political pressure to read female writers (sometimes these feminists come off as whiny, annoying girlfriends complaining that “he just won’t listen to me!”).

Or, you know, it might just be that the writers of the blog post, and those who wrote in with suggestions, really enjoyed the books in question and thought that dudes might just enjoy them too.  Sort of like when a friend tells you that you should totally watch the movie Dogtooth, because it is so fascinating and creepy and awesome. Or when I tell you right now that you should go watch Jane Austen’s Fight Club on Funny or Die.

Naturally, the comments from Spearheaders were even more ignorant and obtuse than Price’s post. The basic theme: Bitches can’t write for shit (as far as I know).

In case you think I am offering an unfair characterization of the, er, debate, here’s one Spearheader’s contribution to the discussion:

when a man says “no, I won’t read your literature”, you have to respect that, bitch.

And another’s:

I basically do not read anything a wimminz has written, not even in my favourite genre of science fiction, because every single time I have tried they have been unmitigated fucking crap full of feminazi girl power bullshit and emotional baggage and basically very little hard SF…

And still another’s:

I never read anything written by women unless it happens to be instructional and related to work. Pretty much all the fiction I’ve ever read is by and for males. If I read some non-fiction for fun it’s always got a male author. I realized a while back that my cd collection is about 98% male. When I was a kid I never thought about it, it just came naturally. Now that I’m older I intentionally avoid anything by women.

It’s always,er, instructive to see what some random guy who apparently reads mostly instructional manuals has to say about the literary controversies of the day.

There were, of course, more thoughtful analyses, like this earnest comment from the excitable, exclamation-point-happy David K. Meller:

Women write for an audience of their own level–to wit themselves! Most men are simply too intelligent to be interested in what passes for literature scribbled by women! …

Correct me if I am wrong, but is most woman’s “literature” one more kvetch klatsch of women–or girls–getting together to complain about, to defeat, or to evade the workings of us evil, letcherous, abusive, horrible M-E-N! There is no point in men reading such drivel …

There may be better days coming; when women are once again taught the arts of pleasing men, in their creating a comfortable environment for the chosen man in their lives, and when they again will use their ability to read to discover new and better ways to do this, and their ability to write to communicate these truths to others of their sex! Until that happens, literacy for women, much less dominance in authorship, editing, and publishing has been, and is, a BLOODY MESS for everyone, especially men!!

PEACE AND FREEDOM!!
David K. Meller

Yes, women should really only be allowed to read and write if they are reading or writing instructional manuals on how to cook and give better blow jobs, possibly at the same time.

PEACE AND FREEDOM!! to you too, good sir.

Speaking of which — the blowjob bit, not the PEACE AND FREEDOM!! — the commenter calling himself dragnet suggested that young men such as himself were simply too busy to read much of anything. They have other priorities:

The vast majority of my reading is for work, research, and classes. …

Frankly, I’d rather be getting laid than reading a novel after a grueling work week. The three or four hours I sometimes have free on the weekend when I’m not working or working out or sleeping or eating, I’d rather be out with my friends or getting serviced by whatever girl I’m with at the time.

It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a penis, must be in want of some girl to service it.

PEACE AND FREEDOM!!1!!

Anyway, ladies and manginas, any good lady books you want to suggest for the dudes of the world?

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PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
13 years ago

I would say Catcher in the Rye is a book that only got attention because the author was male. That protagonist was a jerk.

Amnesia
Amnesia
13 years ago

@zombie

Or how about this list: “Women authors who wouldn’t get as much attention if people didn’t think they were male.”

carswell
carswell
13 years ago

I basically do not read anything a wimminz has written, not even in my favourite genre of science fiction, because every single time I have tried they have been unmitigated fucking crap full of feminazi girl power bullshit and emotional baggage and basically very little hard SF…

Ahhh. A fan of that hard science fiction Gorean saga by John Norman no doubt – full of scantily clad female sex slaves and manly men.

LOL

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
13 years ago

Fun fact: Truman Capote wrote To Kill a Mockingbird.

Mr. Kobold
Mr. Kobold
13 years ago

MRAL, that is a supremely intelligent term to use, just like everything else you say.

In other news I’ve always been curious about Spearhead commenters reading habits especially given that so many of them are into Scifi, a genre that isn’t really known for catering to reactionary pricks.

I mean, short old 70s pulp novels depicting bare-chested techno-barbarians fighting dinosaur women, what can they read in the genre from even male authors?

Cause I can’t picture them picking up stuff like China Mieville’s “The Scar” without throwing it away with a shrill yelp when they find out the main character is female. I mean, if MRAs (a false statement I know cause they honestly aren’t very active) where to pick up something like “Hyperion” would they skip over Brawne Lamia’s narration segment in it cause she’s a female detective?

I think io9 back in 2009 did a segment about Spearhead whining about the “feminization” of scifi, and author John Scalzi had the best ever response to it:

“What? An insecure male nerd threatened by the idea that women exist for reasons other than the dispensing of sandwiches and topical applications of boobilies, mewling on the Internet about how girls are icky? That’s unpossible!”

Nobby
13 years ago

Fun Fact: William Shakespeare was actually a woman.

Oh, wait, was that supposed to be ‘fact’ or ‘unsubstantiated rumor’?

min0u
min0u
13 years ago

“Male authors who wouldn’t get the attention if they weren’t male.” Wasn’t that the whole kerfuffle over Jonathan Franzen – that similarly-talented female authors writing about love, identity and families are relegated to the chick-lit ghetto, while Franzen’s are “masterpiece[s] of American fiction”?

Amnesia
Amnesia
13 years ago

MRAL, do you believe everything those MRAs tell you?

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
13 years ago

I read the first chapter of The Awakening, that was pretty bad IMO.

Tabby Lavalamp
13 years ago

Fascinating. MRAL seems to find it near impossible to post a comment without getting all MRALish. The first paragraph in his first comment in this thread was entirely reasonable and he could have left it at that. But for some reason he felt compelled to add the second paragraph and it all went downhill from there.

Nahida
13 years ago

I’ve never heard of My Antonia, is there any feminist shit in it?

This, right after the idiot lists a bunch of women authors with “feminist shit.”

zombie rotten mcdonald
13 years ago

zombie: There are none.

Yeah. Sure. Consider that an adequate response to your list also then.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
13 years ago

Fun fact: No, he did not.

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
13 years ago

Oh, Jonathan Franzen, from my limited exposure, writes good novels (not my cup of tea, but YMMV and he is clearly a master). Most (all) “chick lit” writers are shit, which is, shockingly, why they do not receive the attention Franzen gets.

ozymandias
13 years ago

I <3 Scalzi.

MRAL, we have really similar taste in books. Although I do find it highly amusing that four of the five female authors you list are feminist, and I don't recognize the fifth so she might be. 🙂

How is Steven Erikson, btw? I keep considering reading him, but it's a lot of time commitment to start a new series, you know?

Lady Victoria von Syrus
Lady Victoria von Syrus
13 years ago

I really enjoy Lilith Saintcrow’s novels – she writes some fairly good urban fantasy. Poppy Z. Brite, who I mentioned before, writes some amazingly awesome vampire novels (though is currently taking a break from writing).

Allison Weir has written some pretty good biographies of the English crown, especially Henry VIII and Elizabeth I. Currently, I’m working my way through some Robin Hobb.

Scott Lynch is a dude, but he manages to write some pretty cool female characters in Red Skies Over Red Seas. Seanan McGuire is also another urban fantasy writer I enjoy, and has written a book entitled ‘Feed’ under the name Mira Grant, which is a fantastic novel set 20 years after the zombie apocalypse. C.S. Friedman is also one of the best fantasy writers I’ve read in a long time.

Sarah Dunant writes good historical fiction, so does Ann Bannon. I also really recommend ‘Escape’ by Carolyn Jessop – its a memoir of a woman who grew up on the fundamentalist Mormon compound in Colorado City, got married to an abusive asshole, had eight children (one with severe medical problems), and managed to escape and start a new life with them.

zombie rotten mcdonald
13 years ago

They are held to the same standard as male writers…(such as) Stephen King.

lulzzors. Look, I like Stephen King’s novels as much as anyone, but ‘standards’? I don’t delude myself that they are literature or must-reads.

Hide and Seek
Hide and Seek
13 years ago

Mr. Meller seems to have taken a page from the Upton Sinclair!! manual on writing!!! Without the social justice! aspects!!

zombie rotten mcdonald
13 years ago

written a book entitled ‘Feed’ under the name Mira Grant, which is a fantastic novel set 20 years after the zombie apocalypse

OK, color me interested.

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
13 years ago

Also, Stephen King is an SF/horror writer who writes good female characters, and he’s JUST a little prolific. So I don’t think it’s that rare.

Fun fact: I’ve met Stephen King on multiple occasions (his wife owns a bookstore I frequented before it closed) and he is the coolest guy ever.

Fatman
Fatman
13 years ago

Perhaps it is less fun, but it is never the less a fact;

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5244492

Nobby
13 years ago

@Zombie Hey now, just because you may not like them doesn’t mean they’re not good. He’s won a shit-ton of award for a reason.

Fatman
Fatman
13 years ago

Sorry, PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth, I did not see that you had already posted the same link while I was getting my html right.

zombie rotten mcdonald
13 years ago

Or how about this list: “Women authors who wouldn’t get as much attention if people didn’t think they were male.”

That’s unpossible, because misandry! And wymynynynyns! Also, your arguement is invalid!

zombie rotten mcdonald
13 years ago

Nobby, I SAID I liked them. Hell, I am re-reading The Stand currently.

I would, however, like to hear from some of the women who hang out here whether King’s female characters are ‘realistic’.