So Esquire magazine recently posted a list of “The 75 Books Every Man Should Read” on their website. Esquire being Esquire – that is to say, a men’s magazine that had its glory days in the era of Mad Men and that seems to be aimed mostly at old farts (and aspiring old farts) — only one book of the 75 was written by a woman. (That’s 98.67% male, for those of you with lady brains who can’t do the math.)
The internet being the internet, some people noticed that the list was a wee bit heavy on the dudes, even for a men’s magazine, and pointed this out. The bloggers at the Joyland Publishing blog suggested that while the books on Esquire’s list were “mostly fantastic,” it might behoove men to pick up a book or two written by a woman once in a while. And so, with the help of some of their readers, the two assembled a list of “250 Books By Women All Men Should Read.” (Why 250 and not, say, 75? Because they got a lot of suggestions.)
Here’s a little one-question quiz for you all: What title did W. F. Price at The Spearhead give his post on the controversy?
A) “Some Great Suggestions for Books by Women You Guys Might Want to Read.”
B) “Did You Know There Are Female Authors Besides The Chick That Wrote Harry Potter?”
C) “Feminist Publishers: Force Men to Read Women’s Lit”
Yep, the correct answer is C, of course. Apparently a couple of bloggers suggesting some books by women that men “should” read is some kind of Gestapo-like imposition upon men by “Feminist Publishers.” Price grouses:
[I]it strikes me as rather mean-spirited of females in the publishing industry to denounce even ineffectual efforts to introduce men to literature. By all accounts, publishing has come to be dominated by women, and men are reading far fewer books than women these days. Given this state of affairs, you’d think that the women in the industry might be a bit gracious and let the boys pick and choose which titles interest them.
But of course that won’t do, because feminists must find fault with any and everything men are involved in. …
The implication [of the Joyland Publishing blog post] is that men should be forced by political pressure to read female writers (sometimes these feminists come off as whiny, annoying girlfriends complaining that “he just won’t listen to me!”).
Or, you know, it might just be that the writers of the blog post, and those who wrote in with suggestions, really enjoyed the books in question and thought that dudes might just enjoy them too. Sort of like when a friend tells you that you should totally watch the movie Dogtooth, because it is so fascinating and creepy and awesome. Or when I tell you right now that you should go watch Jane Austen’s Fight Club on Funny or Die.
Naturally, the comments from Spearheaders were even more ignorant and obtuse than Price’s post. The basic theme: Bitches can’t write for shit (as far as I know).
In case you think I am offering an unfair characterization of the, er, debate, here’s one Spearheader’s contribution to the discussion:
when a man says “no, I won’t read your literature”, you have to respect that, bitch.
And another’s:
I basically do not read anything a wimminz has written, not even in my favourite genre of science fiction, because every single time I have tried they have been unmitigated fucking crap full of feminazi girl power bullshit and emotional baggage and basically very little hard SF…
And still another’s:
I never read anything written by women unless it happens to be instructional and related to work. Pretty much all the fiction I’ve ever read is by and for males. If I read some non-fiction for fun it’s always got a male author. I realized a while back that my cd collection is about 98% male. When I was a kid I never thought about it, it just came naturally. Now that I’m older I intentionally avoid anything by women.
It’s always,er, instructive to see what some random guy who apparently reads mostly instructional manuals has to say about the literary controversies of the day.
There were, of course, more thoughtful analyses, like this earnest comment from the excitable, exclamation-point-happy David K. Meller:
Women write for an audience of their own level–to wit themselves! Most men are simply too intelligent to be interested in what passes for literature scribbled by women! …
Correct me if I am wrong, but is most woman’s “literature” one more kvetch klatsch of women–or girls–getting together to complain about, to defeat, or to evade the workings of us evil, letcherous, abusive, horrible M-E-N! There is no point in men reading such drivel …
There may be better days coming; when women are once again taught the arts of pleasing men, in their creating a comfortable environment for the chosen man in their lives, and when they again will use their ability to read to discover new and better ways to do this, and their ability to write to communicate these truths to others of their sex! Until that happens, literacy for women, much less dominance in authorship, editing, and publishing has been, and is, a BLOODY MESS for everyone, especially men!!
PEACE AND FREEDOM!!
David K. Meller
Yes, women should really only be allowed to read and write if they are reading or writing instructional manuals on how to cook and give better blow jobs, possibly at the same time.
PEACE AND FREEDOM!! to you too, good sir.
Speaking of which — the blowjob bit, not the PEACE AND FREEDOM!! — the commenter calling himself dragnet suggested that young men such as himself were simply too busy to read much of anything. They have other priorities:
The vast majority of my reading is for work, research, and classes. …
Frankly, I’d rather be getting laid than reading a novel after a grueling work week. The three or four hours I sometimes have free on the weekend when I’m not working or working out or sleeping or eating, I’d rather be out with my friends or getting serviced by whatever girl I’m with at the time.
It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a penis, must be in want of some girl to service it.
PEACE AND FREEDOM!!1!!
Anyway, ladies and manginas, any good lady books you want to suggest for the dudes of the world?
So, funny story about Moby Dick: It’s one of my favorite books. I don’t know how many times I’ve read it. Really.
For years I thought I’d never finished it, and I’d pick it up again and read it. So, on a mission to Boston, back in… probably 2000, I was on the plane, got to the last line and realised I had finished it, every time I’d read it.
Because I love you all….
Chapter 1: Loomings
Call me Ishmael. Some years ago – never mind how long precisely – having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world. It is a way I have of driving off the spleen, and regulating the circulation. Whenever I find myself growing grim about the mouth; whenever it is a damp, drizzly November in my soul; whenever I find myself involuntarily pausing before coffin warehouses, and bringing up the rear of every funeral I meet; and especially whenever my hypos get such an upper hand of me, that it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people’s hats off – then, I account it high time to get to sea as soon as I can. This is my substitute for pistol and ball. With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
And…
Chapter 96: The Try Works
And there is a Catskill eagle in some souls that can alike dive down into the blackest gorges, and soar out of them again and become invisible in the sunny spaces. And even if he for ever flies within the gorge, that gorge is in the mountains; so that even in his lowest swoop the mountain eagle is still higher than other birds upon the plain, even though they soar.
The last passage, is from one of those, “Cetacean” Chapters.
ozymandias: Sorry. Anthony Quiller-Couch, Oxford Book of English Verse
*hugs copy of Neuromancer* You’ll never get me to dislike it! D:
Also, I didn’t realize until now that the book was only a year older than *me*! XD
Pecunium, the summer after my sophmore year of college I had a groundskeeping job where they let you listen to CDs while working. I listened to all of Moby Dick that way, raking leaves and pulling weeds and trying to stick myself back together after a breakup. I loved it, but I’ve never read it again because I’m afraid that it won’t have the same intensity now that I’m busier and a different person!
@Pecunium I see in the long time since my last reading of it I probably embellished the parts I found less interesting. It is only one chapter that I can see, Chapter 32: Cetology. The books of classifications of whales are… dry, to say the least. However, I do not have any problem at all with the rest of the book, please don’t get me wrong. And I agree, the descriptions of the process of whaling are alternately fascinating and intensely poetic, and the book would not be nearly as good without them.
Also, damn you all. I already had a huge list of books to read, and now I have to find time for Illium and Moby Dick and a few others mentioned. *Shakes fist*
Katz, I actually read it a long time ago (’96 or thereabouts) and yes, it sucked. I could barely wade through it. I’d rather translate something from Old English than try reading it again. Give me ‘We’ or ‘Flatland’ any day over that. I’ve never actually met anyone who liked Neuromancer.
Skyal: if this counts you’ve met a few now (myself among them. I think I read it in… ’91).
htt://www.librarything.com/groups/manboobzforum
For those who are interested. I am Dorktv on there.
I have heard lots of people like it, but I honestly can’t figure out why.*shrug* I’m sure I probably like things you guys hate so I won’t it against you. 😉
Re: Why I like Neuromancer: Molly Millions. The role reversal of a female mercenary and a geeky dude that needed protecting was amazing to me. Case was kind of a dick, tho.
For people like me who read Neuromancer after The Matrix came out, Molly feels a lot less special. But I can still recognize why she was such an innovative character at the time.
So yes, it’s historically and socially important, it’s technically well done (although not up to par with his later novels, especially Pattern Recognition), and I enjoyed it.
I don’t actually totally hate WoT, I just think Jordan is a huge sexist. Pointing out the hugely problematic pieces of someone’s work does not automatically mean that you think every bit of it is trash.
@Lyn, I totally agree with you about the rape scene. Mat was by far my favorite character of the series (and, really, the only reason I stuck with it-though I haven’t read the Sanderson co-authored ones) and I absolutely hated Tylin. There is also some creepy sexualization of Olver by some adult female characters that really bothered me too.
I was a huge fan of Edgar Allen Poe when I was a kid. I also liked Lovecraft during that phase (btw, Lovecraft-another sexist and massively, massively racist). Anne Rice, Stephen King, etc. I was a morbid fifth and sixth grader. I then did an old sci-fi phase (Clarke, Heinlein, Harrison, shoot, even good old H.G. Wells). Then I found a copy of Tanya Huff’s Fifth Quarter and went back into more high fantasy (I was a Tolkein fan practically from birth-I read the Hobbit at five, but the animated film was among my favorite movies even before that).
Another note on the women authors list that has been grating at me-it included Leslie Feinberg-which is problematic given Feinberg’s identification as trans and general preference of gender neutral pronouns. I love hir work, but casually identifying hir as a woman is troublesome.
I agree, the Mat & Tylin stuff was disturbing. It was annoying too, because if you removed those bits of the book, I liked her character. I mostly read for escapism (& I read quickly or I’d never finish a book around here!), so I tend to tune out a lot of nuances I might otherwise pay attention to, but it was impossible to tune out how wrong the situation between Mat and Tylin was.
Who needs a female reading list anyway?
I read female fiction all the time here.
Backreading some, but did anyone call MRAL out on his ringing endorsement of “Feed”?
Mira Grant/Seanan McGuire has some pretty clear, unambiguously feminist themes in her novels. I mean, considering how many women populate the October Daye series, and the fact that Georg(ia) was pretty much THE driving force behind the plot of “Feed”…
Also, George was definitely the sort of woman who would “spit” on you, MRAL. She was a vaguely attractive woman who didn’t like talking to people she didn’t know, and more than once snubbed guys. Of course, since the book is written from her POV, it’s obvious why she doesn’t want to talk to said people but she’s evidencing the same actions that have been complained about before (vis a vis, ignoring or not enthusiastically greeting a male colleague/acquaintance/stranger)
I’m not a big fan of reading. Writing? Oh, yes. I like a few books and read them to death, but I guess I just have very specific tastes. Also, reading sets off my motion sickness for some reason. Good thing there are audiobooks, but they don’t make “classics” suck less.
I was in a lit class last semester. Primarily they were books and stories by men. They never stopped talking about sex, cocks, masturbation, etc. The male characters were what the author wished he was or thought he was, and the females were what he thought they should be.
The female authors wrote very natural, realistic stories about people being people. It was a weird contrast. I’m not sure it was deliberate. But I bet mral would love the guys’ books–all about the omegaest of blandest omegas getting a lot of hothotkitty. They were total male fantasy.
I have to take another lit class to finish my degree. I might have to kill myself first, if it’s anything like the last one (it will be).
My two cents. Also, I hate not having internet. Dammit.
“Of course, since the book is written from her POV, it’s obvious why she doesn’t want to talk to said people but she’s EVIDENCING the same actions that have been complained about before (vis a vis, ignoring or not enthusiastically greeting a male colleague/acquaintance/stranger”
Thank you for this most revealing comment.
Oh, ha ha, ewme. By that I mean “really lame” (sorry, ablism again).
Thank you for this most revealing comment.
Would you like someone to explain it to you?
I’m rather chagrined to say that I haven’t heard of most of the books on the Joyland list, while I’ve heard of all of the books on the Esquire list. It’s not hard to imagine that the Canon of Worthwhile Literature is a mite skewed toward the male-author side.
After actually reading the comments on the Esquire list, the sexism is painfully obvious. If one was tempted to think that it was unintentional sexism, check out this language: “The Grapes of Wrath: It’s all about the titty.”
Yeah, canon my ass.
Speaking of Moby Dick, I highly recommend the contemporary companion piece, Ahab’s Wife, by Sena Naslund. I’m sure MRAL will never read it since the whole idea of the book, telling the story of Ahab’s wife, who doesn’t even get a name in the original, is a feminist idea. But it’s an excellent story, adventurous and well-written. But he will never know that since there’s feminism involved. Terrible pity, really.
Naslund also wrote Four Spirits, a novel based on her own experiences growing up in Birmingham Alabama during the civil rights era. Also a book I recommend.
Chocolminties! Does your school offer any specialized lit classes? I know when I was taking lit classes for my degree I took things like “Jewish American Women and Literature” so look around and you might find something. Also, you might want ask around for professors whose general-lit classes focus heavily on feminist lit by men and women or genre lit or something. I’ve found that college professors tend to get a free hand in picking books for those.
Also, if you talk to a doctor about you motion sickness-while-reading thing, it’s possible it could get a documented disability. In that case you might be able to find/get a reader (electronic or otherwise)
I don’t think it’s fair to MRAL to keep saying he won’t read books by feminists, nor even with feminist slant. He says he has read them, and alike them.
Chocolminties! Does your school offer any specialized lit classes?
I took one in Science Fiction. We read The Marching Morons, among others, I argued for Stanislaw Lem and we watched an episode of Quark. Total party class.
He says he has read them, and alike them.
Just not knowing that they were feminist.