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"No I won't read your literature … bitch!" and other thoughts on female fiction from the dudes of The Spearhead

This better not be written by some dame!

So Esquire magazine recently posted a list of “The 75 Books Every Man Should Read” on their website.  Esquire being Esquire – that is to say, a men’s magazine that had its glory days in the era of Mad Men and that seems to be aimed mostly at old farts (and aspiring old farts) —  only one book of the 75 was written by a woman.  (That’s 98.67% male, for those of you with lady brains who can’t do the math.)

The internet being the internet, some people noticed that the list was a wee bit heavy on the dudes, even for a men’s magazine, and pointed this out. The bloggers at the Joyland Publishing blog suggested that while the books on Esquire’s list were “mostly fantastic,” it might behoove men to pick up a book or two written by a woman once in a while. And so, with the help of some of their readers, the two assembled a list of “250 Books By Women All Men Should Read.” (Why 250 and not, say, 75? Because they got a lot of suggestions.)

Here’s a little one-question quiz for you all: What title did W. F. Price at The Spearhead give his post on the controversy?

A) “Some Great Suggestions for Books by Women You Guys Might Want to Read.”

B) “Did You Know There Are Female Authors Besides The Chick That Wrote Harry Potter?”

C) “Feminist Publishers: Force Men to Read Women’s Lit”

Yep, the correct answer is C, of course.  Apparently a couple of bloggers suggesting some books by women that men “should” read  is some kind of Gestapo-like imposition upon men by “Feminist Publishers.” Price grouses:

[I]it strikes me as rather mean-spirited of females in the publishing industry to denounce even ineffectual efforts to introduce men to literature. By all accounts, publishing has come to be dominated by women, and men are reading far fewer books than women these days. Given this state of affairs, you’d think that the women in the industry might be a bit gracious and let the boys pick and choose which titles interest them.

But of course that won’t do, because feminists must find fault with any and everything men are involved in. …

The implication [of the Joyland Publishing blog post] is that men should be forced by political pressure to read female writers (sometimes these feminists come off as whiny, annoying girlfriends complaining that “he just won’t listen to me!”).

Or, you know, it might just be that the writers of the blog post, and those who wrote in with suggestions, really enjoyed the books in question and thought that dudes might just enjoy them too.  Sort of like when a friend tells you that you should totally watch the movie Dogtooth, because it is so fascinating and creepy and awesome. Or when I tell you right now that you should go watch Jane Austen’s Fight Club on Funny or Die.

Naturally, the comments from Spearheaders were even more ignorant and obtuse than Price’s post. The basic theme: Bitches can’t write for shit (as far as I know).

In case you think I am offering an unfair characterization of the, er, debate, here’s one Spearheader’s contribution to the discussion:

when a man says “no, I won’t read your literature”, you have to respect that, bitch.

And another’s:

I basically do not read anything a wimminz has written, not even in my favourite genre of science fiction, because every single time I have tried they have been unmitigated fucking crap full of feminazi girl power bullshit and emotional baggage and basically very little hard SF…

And still another’s:

I never read anything written by women unless it happens to be instructional and related to work. Pretty much all the fiction I’ve ever read is by and for males. If I read some non-fiction for fun it’s always got a male author. I realized a while back that my cd collection is about 98% male. When I was a kid I never thought about it, it just came naturally. Now that I’m older I intentionally avoid anything by women.

It’s always,er, instructive to see what some random guy who apparently reads mostly instructional manuals has to say about the literary controversies of the day.

There were, of course, more thoughtful analyses, like this earnest comment from the excitable, exclamation-point-happy David K. Meller:

Women write for an audience of their own level–to wit themselves! Most men are simply too intelligent to be interested in what passes for literature scribbled by women! …

Correct me if I am wrong, but is most woman’s “literature” one more kvetch klatsch of women–or girls–getting together to complain about, to defeat, or to evade the workings of us evil, letcherous, abusive, horrible M-E-N! There is no point in men reading such drivel …

There may be better days coming; when women are once again taught the arts of pleasing men, in their creating a comfortable environment for the chosen man in their lives, and when they again will use their ability to read to discover new and better ways to do this, and their ability to write to communicate these truths to others of their sex! Until that happens, literacy for women, much less dominance in authorship, editing, and publishing has been, and is, a BLOODY MESS for everyone, especially men!!

PEACE AND FREEDOM!!
David K. Meller

Yes, women should really only be allowed to read and write if they are reading or writing instructional manuals on how to cook and give better blow jobs, possibly at the same time.

PEACE AND FREEDOM!! to you too, good sir.

Speaking of which — the blowjob bit, not the PEACE AND FREEDOM!! — the commenter calling himself dragnet suggested that young men such as himself were simply too busy to read much of anything. They have other priorities:

The vast majority of my reading is for work, research, and classes. …

Frankly, I’d rather be getting laid than reading a novel after a grueling work week. The three or four hours I sometimes have free on the weekend when I’m not working or working out or sleeping or eating, I’d rather be out with my friends or getting serviced by whatever girl I’m with at the time.

It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a penis, must be in want of some girl to service it.

PEACE AND FREEDOM!!1!!

Anyway, ladies and manginas, any good lady books you want to suggest for the dudes of the world?

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Lyn
Lyn
13 years ago

Oooh – ANGELA CARTER! I heart her. So very much.

Ami Angelwings
13 years ago

@Nobby I’ve seen that xD It seems fun 😀

Actually I have apparently done DMing all my life and never realized it cuz I never knew NETHING about RPGs, but I kinda just did it on my own, creating stories for ppl to play in, and controlling what they interacted with and happened, and like the e-fed I ran online for a while 😀 I like crafting stories and worlds :3

sarahejones
13 years ago

Still recovering from the fact I have literary tastes in common with MRAs. But hey. Game of Thrones rocks. So do its ladies 🙂

Kes
Kes
13 years ago

I’ll just leave this here…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NKXNThJ610

Ami Angelwings
13 years ago

I think it shocks them too xD Perhaps this is when the healing and realizations of incorrect assumptions begins! 😀

Kes
Kes
13 years ago
thefemalespectator
thefemalespectator
13 years ago

@Lyn: Me, too, me too!
The comments are moving so fast I hadn’t actually seen the ones about the classics–but what I like about Carter so much is her creative adaptations of canonical literature/fairy tales. And this supports what others have been saying about the classics–they’re not only enjoyable in their own right, they also help us to get more out of contemporary literature. It’s fun (and potentially mind-altering) to see how writers do new things with known material.
Your dissertation sounds awesome!

Lyn
Lyn
13 years ago

@Kes – I seriously love the lace cuffs and collar on the Brontesaurus 😀

@thefemalespectator – Carter’s rewrites are fantastic! It’s one of those examples of when fiction can point out the logical flaws of previous stories much more elegantly than academics can!

And, speaking of my dissertation…I should really get back to writing it…

katz
13 years ago

Ah, the “classics are boring” troll. I actually have some sympathies for these, because my dad is one of them, but still: small-minded to the extreme.

Skyal
Skyal
13 years ago

Having a BA in English, I’m not entirely unsympathetic to the “classics suck” thing. Some of them really, really do. Some are classics only because the author had a couple really good books and the rest of their work got lumped in. Also, as with art, sometimes really incomprehensible shit gets called a “classic” because it must be amazing if no one understands it. One of the worst books I ever read is considered a must read for the SF genre (Neuromancer, if anyone is curious). I got stuck with it for a class on SF I took. If it hadn’t been for a class, I’d have dumped it in the garbage.

Did anyone mention George Elliot? Another female author who could only get published under a male pseudonym.

Kes
Kes
13 years ago

I’m so jealous of classical authors! They didn’t have to stop and worry about little things like “plausibility”, if their monster needed to learn French, then dammit he would blunder into the woodshed of a French family that just happened to have an Arabian daughter-in-law in need of French instruction and a kindly blind old grandfather. If their heroine was lost on the moors with no friends or relations and a broken heart, then dammit, she would just happen to become best friends with a kindly brother/sister pair who would later turn out completely by coincidence to be her long-lost cousins whose money troubles were saved with the death of her estranged uncle. And so on, and so forth. You just can’t do that shit any more in fiction. Sigh.

Ami Angelwings
13 years ago

I love how nobody is defending what’s in the OP or nething, it’s just a big love in for the awesomeness of books, fiction and reading 🙂

ozymandias
13 years ago

Kes: One word– Dickens.

Ami: It’s almost heartwarming. 🙂

Pecunium
13 years ago

Nobby: Skip the whaling? You’re nuts. They are the meat of the book. The rest is just adventure tale meant to give framework for the philosophical discourses on existentialism.

(nb, it’s one of my favorite books; it puts pretty much everything NWO is on about to shame. Love, death, loyalty, obsession, teamwork, indiviualism, nature, nuture, savage vs civilised, you name it it’s in there, and the prose [at least by my lights] is gripping, and yes NWO, I’ve read the stuff; Game of Thrones is Ok, but the actual history George R. R. Martin used as the skeleton, is a lot more exiting to me).

ozymandias: Latin Schmatin: I read Pushkin in the original Russian. Shakespeare is good in translation too. Actually Russian translation of literature is amazing, and I really want a copy of The Hobbit. I loved reading Winnie the Pooh in Russian.

Cactuar
Cactuar
13 years ago

I haven’t had time to catch up on all the comments in this thread but:

@PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
I also renew my suggestion we make a book group on Library Thing.

Oh, lets.

And as long as we’re throwing things out there, I love Dumas so much. Ten Years Later could have been nothing but Aramis having one long Atlas style exposition binge, and it would have been well-written enough to still be awesome.

Lady Victoria von Syrus
Lady Victoria von Syrus
13 years ago

There’s a great series, “Illium” and “Odysseum” and, i believe, “Hyperium” (but don’t quote me on that) that’s a hard sci-fi epic built on the scaffold of those books. They become much more interesting with knowledge of the source. As well as Proust and Shakespeare, et

Dan Simmons is a god among men (Illium, Olympos and Hyperion, btw). He wrote one book about a search and rescue detective, ignore it. It’s so bad I had to flip to the title page halfway through, because I was convinced I was reading a book by a different Dan Simmons. He just wrote one about the frenemy relationship between Wilkie Collins and Charles Dickens, narrated by a perpetually stoned and jealous Collins. As a sf fan and literature nerd, his books are like brain-porn for me.

As we have wandered away from women-authored stories, how about Jim Butcher? I like his female characters, especially how he managed to make Karin Murphy a ‘strong female character’ without having to resort to cliches to get his point across.

I would totally join the ManBoobz book group.

Pecunium
13 years ago

David Drake is an interesting case: A lot of his stuff is working out his demons from Vietnam. A lot of it is also rewrites of the classics (he’s a Greek/Latin Scholar). Some of them barely have the serial numbers filed off.

MRAL: Poetry is great. I am a fan of rhyme and meter; but about the time the Romantics take off, I start to lose interest (not completely, once we get to the early moderns things get a little better). It’s mostly a problem of voice. The Romantics have too many who are all sharing their “feelings” and that doesn’t quite work for me.

And the people who think Whitman’s free verse means they can take the Romantics desire to let their feelings out and just slap words on a page and call it poetry… ugh.

The thing is… I like craft. e.e. cummings slaved over his stuff (not that I think quantity of effort = quality of product) and that was because he was working to say some specific things.

Poetry is distilled thoughts, emotions, moods. Epic Poetry is one thing, lyric is another, but all poetry should concentrate experience, and reveal something about the human condition.

Western wind, when wilt thou blow
That the small rain down can rain

Christ that I were in my lover’s arms
And I in my bed again.

(move the apostrophe, if you want a more “modern” poem 🙂

katz
13 years ago

Skyal: You think Neuromancer sucks? Nowadays it suffers from “Seinfeld is unfunny” syndrome (ie, the things that were original and unique about it have now been done to death), but it’s full of really innovative ideas and storytelling.

It’s also from 1984–hardly even old enough to be considered a modern classic, let alone a true classic. I generally apply a 100-year minimum.

Nobby
Nobby
13 years ago

@Pecunium Wait, I can’t tell if you are serious or not. by ‘the cetology chapters’ I mean the lists of whale types and characteristics and so forth. Though his impassioned defense of whales as fish is pretty damn hilarious in hindsight.

@Lady Syrus

Yeah, they’re pretty awesome. And thanks for the correction, my copies are at home in my collection of books I have yet to move out to my old place, so I haven’t read them in a while. But so good! It’s like he said “Hmm, why don’t I throw together a dystopia, a shit-ton of classical literature, vibro-swords, epic journeys, crazy quantum mechanics, and just plain awesome, and see what happens!” I picked up ‘Illium’ on a whim, and have never been so happily surprised :-).

ozymandias
13 years ago

Pecunium, I love that poem with an unholy love. 🙂

Pecunium
13 years ago

Nobby: I mean all the chapters which deal with the craft of whaling, not the chasing of whales. So yes, the lists, the crushing of sperm oil, the coiling of ropes and sharpening of knives, the trypots and blubber fritters.

Honestly, I don’t think there is a wasted passage.

Pecunium
13 years ago

ozymandias: My comfort book, for ages, was the AQC OBEV. It travelled with me everywhere. Even with his asinine renumbering of Billy the Shake’s sonnets it was worth stuffing in my duffel when I got sent someplace.

thefemalespectator
thefemalespectator
13 years ago

Does anyone else have a problem with the Esquire list being so heavily Americanist? And where the hell is Tennessee Williams?!?
@Pecunium: I completely agree with you, there’s no wasted passage.

ozymandias
13 years ago

What is an AQC OBEV? I have somehow missed this. 🙂

Quackers
Quackers
13 years ago

“that chick that wrote Harry Potter” is probably richer than all the MRAs combined, and her books are enjoyed by males and females all around the world.

Oh this will really make MRAs rage…she wrote the beginning of the books while she was a single mother. A real rags to riches story..so much for their BS about women and single mothers only leaching off men and the evil guvmint! and no MRAs, she is not an exception except for the fact that she hit it big, plenty of single mothers work just as hard to make it by.