In various countries around the world, women and teenage girls are regularly groped while riding commuter trains. This, I suspect, is not news to most of you; indeed, I know one reader of this blog who’s had this happen to her. In Japan, one survey found that two-thirds of female passengers in their twenties and thirties had been groped. Because the problem is so prevalent in that country — and the authorities are so ineffective at controlling it – some train lines have instituted women-only train cars in an attempt to cut down on groping (and on false accusations of groping as well). “Women-only” train cars have also introduced, in a limited way, in India, where harassment of women in public – known as “Eve teasing” – is distressingly common.
So what’s more appalling – the fact that groping on trains is so common in Japan that two-thirds of young women commuters have had to endure it themselves, or the fact that a small number of train cars have been set aside for women in a fairly half-assed attempt to curtail some of this groping?
For a lot of MRAs, the latter. The subject came up on Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit recently, inspiring some of the regulars to fulminate against this allegedly misandrist outrage. Fatalistic pulled out the n-word and this facile comparision:
Here’s what I’m seeing here: “At least we let you in the back of the bus, nigger.”
ExpendableOne, meanwhile, managed to work in a staggering number of standard-issue MRA complaints into this one sentence:
I think it’s discrimination and subjugation entirely based on misandry, negative male type-casting/stereotyping and anti-male heterophobia.
Ztakn seemed to suggest that it was all part of some oddly indirect money-making scheme on the part of, I guess, women:
To keep it short they exploit and propagate fears not only demonizing men in society but also terrorizing women and scaring the shit out of them making them more paranoid than they need to be.
And then they do it for money.
How would that work exactly?
1) Get groped
2) Set up women-only train cars
3) ???
4) Profit?
Given that the Men’s Rights subreddit is one of the few Men’s Rights forums online that is not completely overrun with misogynist fanatics, there were others who responded more reasonably. Alienblonde noted:
In Japan it’s a massive problem where school girls get groped by older males on trains in peak hour.
Happened to me in Europe too when I was back packing. Some old Spanish guy sat beside me and decided to feel me up.
Women shouldn’t have to deal with this and unfortunately, until it stops happening, I think [women only train cars are] justified.
Naturally, this being a Men’s Rights forum, she quickly found herself the focus of a game of “blame the victim.” Fatalistic accused her of “[j]ustifying discrimination with this all men are potential criminals feminist dogma.” When she pointed out that she was not, in fact, doing this, he moved on to castigating her for not making a public scene when she was groped:
You should out the people who actually do these things rather than treat the rest of us as criminals by default with disgusting bigoted policies and the back of the bus mentality.
When she pointed out that this could have put her in more serious danger, he merely scoffed:
You would have to be paranoid and spoonfed the most egregious of feminist women are helpless, men are unstoppable beasts that need other men with guns to drag them away dogma to believe that all but the most psychopathic would persist or try to harm you if you outed them to a crowd for their actions.
Easy for you to say.
Of course, when women DO confront sexual harassers on trains, as I noted in a post on the infamous New York Subway flasher last November, they get reactions like this sarcastic Reddit comment from one member of the men-are-oppressed club.
Yes, because obviously her heterophobia needs to be glorified… Penises are so disgusting and scary, obviously women should totally be justified in fearing them and there couldn’t possibly be any kind of misandry involved with such contempt, befuddlement or “helplessness/horror” to the mere sigh[t] of male anatomy. /s
Yep, if you’re a woman on a train, not wanting to have some random dude pull his penis out and rub it on you is “heterophobia.” Who knew?
In the case of the subway flasher, the alleged perp did indeed flee when confronted. (He was later arrested.) That’s pretty much the best-case scenario. But it’s hardly the only possible result, and it’s understandable why a woman riding the train to work (much less one backpacking alone in a foreign country) would hesitate to publicly accuse a groper of groping her. Having women-only train cars cuts down on the number of times women are put in this difficult situation.
Yes, in an ideal world, there would be no need for women-only train cars. In an ideal world, men wouldn’t grope women on trains.
Oh oh oh! Or a membrane coated with *gasp* estrogen!
Heh, “Don’t touch me, or you’ll become me! Bwa ha ha ha ha!”
I wonder how men would react if women smeared them up with hormonal creams randomly on crowded trains. Just a thought…
@Cactaur 🙁 that is SO familiar to me : esp the “gay/trans panic” thing 🙁 that esp hits SO HOME for me, b/c it adds another layer of fears and danger to everything on top of alrdy not being believed, for being dismissed as a “drama queen”, or a “lying bitch” and everything you said up there : (& it’s something ppl WANT to believe it as an excuse cuz it fits their hateful narratives 🙁 like w/ the Angie Zapata murder, how transphobes STILL believe it was “trans panic” even tho it was proven in court that he knew beforehand, but this is the narrative they NEED to justify their hate and fears 🙁 )
*offers moar hugs to cactaur* sry I didn’t mean to usurp that : I think this is a v raw topic for me too 😐
@Laughing Gull if they get angry she can just claim “it’s just flaxseed oil”..
(10000 Ami points to who gets that)
To attempt to help the mood and promote my awesomeness:
http://ami-angelwings.blogspot.com/2011/05/star-trek-khan-ruling-in-hell.html
I wrote a new review today! :3 It is Star Treky and reviewish :3
Aw, don’t worry about that, Ami! I’m sorry you have to deal with that stuff, too…Have some more *hugs*!
I really hate that phenomenon so much, and it baffles me when people will try to make excuses for it! Do they really think their own comfort level (which, in this case, is a personal problem caused by being a bigot), is important enough that it justifies treating another person like that, or god forbid physically harming them.
It’s really, one of those, “Stop the world, I want to get off,” things for me.
I miss the ‘preview’ function. I wish to edit minor grammatical errors which were not immediately apparent to me upon typing my comment originally!
@Cactuar “Do they really think their own comfort level (which, in this case, is a personal problem caused by being a bigot), is important enough that it justifies treating another person like that, or god forbid physically harming them.”
Sadly, yes, they do. A less triggering example, a recent game from BioWare had a male character essentially acting Bi, in that he would hit on the main character regardless of gender. They actually had someone complain that it made him feel “uncomfortable” and that they were “ignoring the straight male gamer demographic” and should change it. Luckily BioWare told him off right good.
I don’t even know what to say to NWO. 2/3 seems to be an extremely conservative estimate. My Mom worked in Yokahama in the 70s and it was already bad then (and, yes, she could tell the difference between unintended contact and groping. Yick!). But, to contribute 2 cents–I’m working in Southeast Asia at the moment and (acknowledging that the public transport situation is far worse for women in Japan, India, and Central Asia) I’ve actually had a worse time with taxis than with public transport. OTOH, I’ve had bad experiences in taxis in the West and the East–some drivers get a woman alone in a car and they think it’s OK to take advantage of having a captive audience to spout all sorts of weird inappropriate stuff. Finally, since there are a lot of ex-pats here, I’m totally seconding Ami’s comment about Asianphiles/chasers. Some of the Western men here (nb4: I’m not saying all or even the majority of them)can have such a sense of entitlement to Asian women’s bodies, especially in a club situation. Sometimes I’m embarrassed to be a Westerner. So, while I agree with those who have expressed reservations about it, my sense is that most women would be relieved to have the option of a women’s-only carriage in those areas with known groping problems. And, yes, we absolutely need more awareness about this problem–it is horrific that anyone would be subjected to physical assault while other people consciously turn a blind eye. WTF? Ami, you rock!
And by “here” I meant where I’m living, not this blog. You guys are cool.
I think the mra mentality behind groping or exposing is very simple.
Mix together hardcore porn as a recipe for sexuality, add in that they would be trilled to have a women come on to them in any way and you have the simple fact that they cannot empathize in the slightest way with the concept of unwanted touches.
Maybe we should invent a suit that releases a really sticky dye that exposes their shame to the world and have plants on trains who wear these suits to have the dye explode all over their business clothes.
And it should be in the morning when they are going to work so they have to explain to their boss why their business suit is covered in rainbow shades.
Unless it was by a fat-fat-fatty omega! Then it would be assault!
NWOslave is hereby sentenced to be on a train with a large group of 300 pound fifty years and older penis groping women, and an equal amount of penis groping men.
Maybe then he’d learn some empathy.
Until then his mind will be set on the porn he watches: where nimble young schoolgirls are very excited to be felt up.
To keep it short they exploit and propagate fears not only demonizing men in society but also terrorizing women and scaring the shit out of them making them more paranoid than they need to be.
Reading this again… who’s “they”? o_O “They” terrorize women and demonize men.
The Japanese? o_O;; But the Japanese are generally either women or men… is this personpants alleging a genderqueer conspiracy or something? o_O
Are “they” the sekritive currently unknown gender of evil? o_O;; Maybe the illuminati are their OWN gender! :O Or this is an alien species trying to control us all!
and profit xD
OMG THEY ARE THE FERENGI! WE ARE BEING CONTROLLED BY THE FERENGI! IT ALL MAKES SENSE! (see they’re organizing slutwalks in order for women to get used to being naked like the Ferengi want us to be! BRILLIANT! )
>:D
I’m ON TO YOU! >:O *puts on tinfoil shield of angelic awesome*
@femalespectator aww.. ty :3 I just wanted to do something… I dun think I rock or nething… I was scared too…
(but I do paper! and sometimes scissors! :3 )
Maybe then he’d learn some empathy.
No, he would not.
@Kave i hope you dun take offense… and I know you were joking… i’m kinda rubbed raw right now… but I wouldn’t wish sexual assault on anybody and I never hope that anybody experiences it ever :
I might just be speaking for myself, but esp in a thread where so many ppl have talked about their experiences with sexual assault, I dun think it’s rly appropriate to be making jokes about it. :
I dun think it matters who the “butt” of it is, I certainly wouldn’t want ppl joking about me being assaulted, esp that I needed to be, to teach me a lesson :
Other ppl may disagree with me or be okay with it… but that’s how I feel about it. 😐
Ami
From my experiences with the mra I can only hope that Buddhists have it right and they will come back as women living under the Taliban.
Sorry but I do wish they could live for a day or a lifetime walking in footsteps so to speak. Good on you that your a better person who doesn’t seek an eye for an eye.
Exhibitionism is a sexual fetish for exposing one’s nakedness, especially genitalia, to onlookers. It is possible to indulge in this fetish within safe parameters – such as at nude beaches or fetish parties (a somewhat popular party are Clothed Female Naked Male parties, where the naked men are turned on by their relative vulnerability). These things are awesome.
However, some men aren’t as conscientious about their sex acts as we might like. If an exhibitionist is exposing his genitalia to someone who has not consented (either explicitly, or implicitly by attending a nude beach or CFNM party or something similar), he’s involving someone in a sexual act without their consent. That is about the opposite of awesome. It’s not quite rape, I don’t think, but it’s definitely a violation of sexual boundaries. Rape is about power, and so is exposing yourself on a subway – it’s about forcing someone to look at something they don’t want to see.
Women aren’t dumb. We know the difference between a tight fit on public transportation and someone trying to cop a feel.
Ami, you’re much nicer than I am. But you are right. No one, not even NWO, deserves that. Besides, victimization is a poor teacher of empathy, IMHO.
I realize Kave was kidding, too.
Sorry that so many women here have had experience with this kind of harassment! (Or any kind.)
Here’s another personal story — it’s a comment that got held in moderation (thought I’d approved it but somehow hadn’t) and which I wanted to make sure people saw:
http://manboobz.com/2011/05/31/the-gropes-of-wrath/comment-page-1/#comment-21780
Welcome to the blog, min0u!