In various countries around the world, women and teenage girls are regularly groped while riding commuter trains. This, I suspect, is not news to most of you; indeed, I know one reader of this blog who’s had this happen to her. In Japan, one survey found that two-thirds of female passengers in their twenties and thirties had been groped. Because the problem is so prevalent in that country — and the authorities are so ineffective at controlling it – some train lines have instituted women-only train cars in an attempt to cut down on groping (and on false accusations of groping as well). “Women-only” train cars have also introduced, in a limited way, in India, where harassment of women in public – known as “Eve teasing” – is distressingly common.
So what’s more appalling – the fact that groping on trains is so common in Japan that two-thirds of young women commuters have had to endure it themselves, or the fact that a small number of train cars have been set aside for women in a fairly half-assed attempt to curtail some of this groping?
For a lot of MRAs, the latter. The subject came up on Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit recently, inspiring some of the regulars to fulminate against this allegedly misandrist outrage. Fatalistic pulled out the n-word and this facile comparision:
Here’s what I’m seeing here: “At least we let you in the back of the bus, nigger.”
ExpendableOne, meanwhile, managed to work in a staggering number of standard-issue MRA complaints into this one sentence:
I think it’s discrimination and subjugation entirely based on misandry, negative male type-casting/stereotyping and anti-male heterophobia.
Ztakn seemed to suggest that it was all part of some oddly indirect money-making scheme on the part of, I guess, women:
To keep it short they exploit and propagate fears not only demonizing men in society but also terrorizing women and scaring the shit out of them making them more paranoid than they need to be.
And then they do it for money.
How would that work exactly?
1) Get groped
2) Set up women-only train cars
3) ???
4) Profit?
Given that the Men’s Rights subreddit is one of the few Men’s Rights forums online that is not completely overrun with misogynist fanatics, there were others who responded more reasonably. Alienblonde noted:
In Japan it’s a massive problem where school girls get groped by older males on trains in peak hour.
Happened to me in Europe too when I was back packing. Some old Spanish guy sat beside me and decided to feel me up.
Women shouldn’t have to deal with this and unfortunately, until it stops happening, I think [women only train cars are] justified.
Naturally, this being a Men’s Rights forum, she quickly found herself the focus of a game of “blame the victim.” Fatalistic accused her of “[j]ustifying discrimination with this all men are potential criminals feminist dogma.” When she pointed out that she was not, in fact, doing this, he moved on to castigating her for not making a public scene when she was groped:
You should out the people who actually do these things rather than treat the rest of us as criminals by default with disgusting bigoted policies and the back of the bus mentality.
When she pointed out that this could have put her in more serious danger, he merely scoffed:
You would have to be paranoid and spoonfed the most egregious of feminist women are helpless, men are unstoppable beasts that need other men with guns to drag them away dogma to believe that all but the most psychopathic would persist or try to harm you if you outed them to a crowd for their actions.
Easy for you to say.
Of course, when women DO confront sexual harassers on trains, as I noted in a post on the infamous New York Subway flasher last November, they get reactions like this sarcastic Reddit comment from one member of the men-are-oppressed club.
Yes, because obviously her heterophobia needs to be glorified… Penises are so disgusting and scary, obviously women should totally be justified in fearing them and there couldn’t possibly be any kind of misandry involved with such contempt, befuddlement or “helplessness/horror” to the mere sigh[t] of male anatomy. /s
Yep, if you’re a woman on a train, not wanting to have some random dude pull his penis out and rub it on you is “heterophobia.” Who knew?
In the case of the subway flasher, the alleged perp did indeed flee when confronted. (He was later arrested.) That’s pretty much the best-case scenario. But it’s hardly the only possible result, and it’s understandable why a woman riding the train to work (much less one backpacking alone in a foreign country) would hesitate to publicly accuse a groper of groping her. Having women-only train cars cuts down on the number of times women are put in this difficult situation.
Yes, in an ideal world, there would be no need for women-only train cars. In an ideal world, men wouldn’t grope women on trains.
As for bruises, I’ve had a few. The worst was when I was hit in the eye with a fastball when I was 11.
Yo MARL, after reading your bullshit, I am certain that all, and I mean all, of your stupid stories, including your faked pictures, are complete lies.
I think MRAL is a crock of shit who did not happen. Fakey fake fakerson. Serously, dude, find a new hobby.
way to dodge the point. Great you’ve been bruised. How did it feel, and hey, if you remember it, it probably wasn’t a totally inconsequential experience right?
care to address any of the other points I raised?
like the ethics questions?
OK MRAL, but you were asked about different kinds of bruises – has anyone ever gripped you so hard they left bruises? How much pressure does that take? Do you think that constitutes ‘brushing up’ against someone else?
Also, the ‘I think you’re lying’ response (over and over again) is getting tiresome. Like, seriously tiresome.
@ MRAL
“If any of these minor events made a “lasting impression” on anyone, then they are weak and this is simply more evidence of the privilege of women, unused to hardship.”
Unused to hardship? Fuck you. Just fuck you. We’re unused to hardship? I don’t know what the backgrounds of everyone else here is, but have you ever been malnutritioned? Because I have. I had scurvy when I was a baby and looked like a white Ethiopian (very thin but with a bloated stomach). I was molested during that time and was so gone from the world that my grandmother once discovered me colouring on my bare skin with crayon (which I’m told hurts a lot). I was two. Because of that happy time period, I still have trouble keeping iron up.
Skip ahead four years and my stepfather molests me for five years until he and my mother break up. During that time period, I’m bullied at school, from guys making fun of my curly hair to one of them searching my backpack for pads and trying to shame me for getting my period, and later telling me I was “ugly and [had] small tits” in grade seven.
Fast-forward to grade twelve in high school where my supposed fucking friend decides to grab my breast as I bend over to pick up my books and then stalks me for the rest of the year. Skip to first year college and I wake up the morning after my best friend’s birthday party to some guy groping me. And then this past summer I get boxed into my seat on the bus while some creep feels me up.
That’s just the sexual assaults, never mind the sexual harassment or the time some guy chased me several blocks until I got to a Tim Horton’s. Yeah. I think I’ve experienced some hardship. But either yours is somehow so much worse to the point that everything above is just “minor events” or I’m lying, right? Fuck you. Wherever the next sinkhole opens up, I hope you’re standing right above it.
“To be honest, I think nobinayamu’s story is a crock of shit and did not happen.”
Oh, good, then I’ll assume everything you’ve said is a crock of shit and that you’re a troll. You’re not actually short, and there’s nothing wrong with your eye. You slept with tons of women, and you got the internship you wanted. And you’re a troll. See how easy that is? You want to doubt us, I’ll doubt you. From now on, I will assume absolutely everything you say is a lie.
To be honest, I think nobinayamu’s story is a crock of shit and did not happen.
God, you are such an asshole.
And that’s me being charitable.
Can David assign homework here before people can comment again? Can we get MRAL to go to any five paramedics, police or firemen (or other first responders, emerg doctors and nurses?)* and get them to tell him about the last, oh let’s say 10 calls they’ve been on where a woman was assaulted (DV or other) and explain to him the form the assault took and whether there were permanent or semi permanent marks left on her body?
After that he can ask if any of them looked self-inflicted or if the responders thought that the person was possibly exaggerating or making it up.
He won’t listen to us, how about listening to the boots on the ground, as it were.
*I’m listing responders here as the people who respond to 911 calls, so firemen would probably see the least incidence as it’s easy to select for what they have in the truck (oxygen tanks and fire hoses) when deciding if they should be sent to a call.
kodiak, I think they’d all be fymynysts in on the conspiricy. Cos it’s too inconvenient to MRAL’s wordview to acknowledge that other people (WOMEN!!) experience any hardship, let alone sexual assault.
I think it’s officially called ‘being a self-obsessed jerk’.
-_-;; Somehow I dun think being considered a troll and a phony bugs MRAL at all >_> I’m glad at least we’re coming to a consensus about this xD
But irregardless.. why not….
So another question to the MRAL frightened to answer my questions xD
What do you think it’d be like to experience what the women here who have? (even if you don’t believe it EVAR .. and you still haven’t answered why you think women are lying when they weren’t playing suffering NASCAR until you showed up xD) What have YOU experienced that you believe is worse? Why do you believe it’s worse?
If your world and arguments rly make as much sense to you as you claim it does, then out w/ it xD Cuz I suspect when you THINK about it, even you know it’s not true (you run from this stuff ALL the time when actually asked xD )
And Kes is right, first you said it’s lies, then it’s exagerrating, now you admit it happened but isn’t bad? So which is it? And why is it that? And how do you think YOU’D feel? Since ppl not talking to you is upsetting to you. SO upsetting that you never forgot it… and you think people should “get over” being sexually assaulted…
therefore you think that not having a hi returned is worse than sexual assault?
just making sure, we know where you stand… 🙂 it’s funny to me how ppl here are taking you at such face value, believing what you say and trying to help you so much and have been SO patient to you, incl sharing painful exp to them to you, and you haven’t even said “i’m sorry that happened to you”…
also you never respond to Pecunium. Go tell him that his life is pancakes compared to your hardship. Is it only easy to doubt women cuz you’re not afraid of them? xD
*jeopardy music plays*
MRAL do you believe sexual assault and rape happen to women? At all?
Why are you so sure that every story here is a lie? o_O What makes you so sure? You even admitted you have no idea what it’s like to be a woman, and what a woman’s life is like. So how can you know? Are you SURE you know?
You DO know that what you’re saying is incredibly hurtful and triggering to the women here sharing their stories? Is that your intent? What has nebody here personally done to you that you want to hurt them? o_O;; (I mean besides me xD You prolly want to throw a hammer of thor at me )
OR given that you dun think ANY of this is true… then you’re not hurting them at all? So what’s the point? o_O;;; So you think ppl are ACTING upset and triggered and too angry to speak just for your benefit?
Women share their personal and painful exp with each other.. and LIE for your sake? o_O And now they’re acting upset and triggered… for your sake? xD
If you’re NOT a troll, and you DO want ppl to actually believe your s- and be patient w/ you… how do you explain that?
xD
*gives Nobinayamu and Alex huge big hugs if it’s okay with them*
I am sry for all the s- that’s been done to you 🙁
Not that I think you ARE, but I just want to let you know you’re both awesome and don’t let a troll trying to get his anger/pain/jollies/whatever on the internet get to you cuz he’s trying to be hurtful and it’s not worth it… we’ve been called worse things by better people. 🙂
*offers moar supportive hugs to everybody*
I like the term smeghead.
Or Rimmer.
Ami, angel, you seem funny and sweet and goodness knows it’s nice to read the posts of other female gamers.
But as much as I enjoy reading this site, I truly do not give a rat’s ass crack about anything that MRAL has to say. Which doesn’t mean that other readers/posters shouldn’t express their own hurt or outrage. I’ve led a fairly colorful life and, trust, I have heard much, much worse. I do, however, appreciate the e-hugs.
MRAL: You are such a whiny fucking titty-baby. It’s a miracle that you manage to walk around without bursting into tears every five minutes. How on earth do you manage to get back and forth to classes without beating your breast and rending your hair over the incredible unfairness of your overtly privileged and yet acutely pathetic little life? Your struggle is an inspiration to us all.
Also, you fucking dumb ass, it should be fairly obvious that I’m black. So when I refer to you as a whiny ass white boy please understand that I mean it in the most literal and disrespectful way possible. You are a whiny ass white boy and believe me, I’ve known a few. Every time you mention Malcolm X or Toni Morrison, or say anything regarding your incredibly limited understanding of race relations and civil rights issues in America I just want to have you hog-tied and dropped off in the projects of west Baltimore so that you can really, truly understand a little bit about what it means to grow up with hardships. Or get your ass beat. Whichever comes first.
Like I said, I’ve got hundreds of stories like the ones I posted. That type of shit started when I was 13 years old. I keep waiting for this magical age where women lose their looks so I can stop being hassled. But thirty came and went and it isn’t really any better. Hell, thirty-five is rapidly approaching and I still have to employ the pinky-finger-bend-back whenever some random hand ends up on my ass when I’m out dancing. This is a part of my life and I stopped taking it personally a decade ago.
I don’t know why I’m even bothering. Unlike other people here I don’t care whether or not you get help. I mean I care in the abstract; I don’t want you going on a rampage and shooting up a beauty salon twenty years from now. But it’s hard for me to feel anything but abject derision for a child who uses the internet to force women to pay attention to him.
Especially when he’s too fucking stupid to notice that he’s insulting the very folks who, by his own admission, are the only community he has for discussing books and his obvious love of literature.
Seriously, you’re so dumb I bet you miss your mouth when you eat.
MRAL, you are a mean spirited runt.
I have several groping/catcall/guys thinking I’m a hooker on the street/etc. stories, but here’s one with kind of a happy ending.
I worked at a bar in college as a barback, and the crew was pretty evenly split gender-wise, and we all took turns doing everything. Part of that entailed walking into a sea of drunks and getting empty pitchers. Some guys were under the impression that the price of a pitcher included a handful of my ass.
Our bouncers were amazing, one in particular. Rodney always told me that if anyone gave me shit, find him and he’d toss ’em.
One night, as I’m loaded with pitchers and trying to make my way through the crowd, my ass gets pinched, HARD. I turn around, asking what the fuck?, see the guilty party, and signal Rodney. Rodney picked this dude up like he was luggage, took him upstairs, and told him not to come back until he could behave. Never saw the dude again, until…
…a few years later I’m out with friends and I see the pincher. I turned away, but he came up to me and said, “I just want you to know that I’m sorry, and I’ve never pinched a woman’s ass again.” I accepted his apology and went back to what I was doing.
hellkell,
I think your anecdote illustrates why men have to take this sort of thing seriously and call other men on their shit. Some guys really do need a close encounter with an ass-kicking to get the message.
My wife started in real estate development in the 80’s, it was a man’s world. She has never complained, in fact she will say to this day she walked into a man’s world and expected to have to prove herself. But the amount of sexual innuendo, ass slaps by even her employees she had to deal with were something I never would have the patience for.
She dealt with it far better then I would. Instead of a instant fire she would tell the guy either you stop or we are no longer doing business case closed. My wife got her contractors license not because she needed too, but because as a licensed contractor it gave her a one up with negotiating with contractors.
Good news is that 20 years later she’s treated with respect in the industry, but although she’d deny it it was a long hard climb. One of the stories she’s told me was going to buy a fleet of trucks and took along a male friend just for the ride. Even though she told the sales person she was looking for X amount and her male friend stood to the side the salesman decided to only talk to her friend even after he told him he had nothing to do with the purchase.
I know our kids don’t deal with sexism like my wife did, but people that want to revert to the way it was back then…….. WHY?
@ Bee Oh, don’t worry, I know that no one here thinks of men like that as representative of all…what upsets me is that people like that are either a majority or a loud minority that people, for some reason, don’t even try to stop or are afraid to.
I guess that’s one advantage to being a nerd/”mangina”/whatever: You start out an outcast of today’s society, so one has a chance to see things for what they really are and find truly important things to get passionate about.
“Rodney picked this dude up like he was luggage, took him upstairs, and told him not to come back until he could behave”
“I think your anecdote illustrates why men have to take this sort of thing seriously and call other men on their shit. Some guys really do need a close encounter with an ass-kicking to get the message.”
I like my whiteknights with mustard.
I like whiteknights with whipped cream…
I don’t get it…how did “Whiteknight” come to be an insult? It just means that you’re coming to someone’s defense…so what? If that person is someone you care about, well, good on ya for being a whiteknight!
this reminds me of those old Tombstone commercials?
What do YOU want on your White Knight? xD
Or you could combine it w/ the Delissio Pizza commercial that says that only women eat foods separately and real men eat cheeseburger pizzas instead of a cheeseburger and/or a pizza xD
So I guess guys can like White Knights AND Bishops together… Bish Knights! 😀
Why is there a ? there? xD I think I meant a ! 😀
@nobiyumi-ashi-obi-wan-kenobi (or whatever pretentious african sounding name your folks gave you)
“I keep waiting for this magical age where women lose their looks so I can stop being hassled”
Jeeeezus Keeeeriste on the holier than thou freakin’ cross!
ARE you stupid and arrogant enough to think we believe that?
“Also, you fucking dumb ass, it should be fairly obvious that I’m black. So when I refer to you as a whiny ass white boy please understand that I mean it in the most literal and disrespectful way possible”
It should be equally obvious that I’m white. So when I refer to you as a pompous, self important, entitled black bitch please understand that I mean it in THE most literal and disrespectful way possible.
Hahahaha, Ami.
I mean, I know that somehow, somewhere, there’s an MRA reading my responses saying, “We’re putting down the feminazi whiteknights because the only people who suck up to females are those who want to get laid/political favors/money/anything other than their mouths on MY cock!”
I mean, geez, have they ever heard of a concept called “ladyfriend”? Cause I have plenty of those, and I have folders on my desktop full of…er…stuff.
It just baffles me.