In various countries around the world, women and teenage girls are regularly groped while riding commuter trains. This, I suspect, is not news to most of you; indeed, I know one reader of this blog who’s had this happen to her. In Japan, one survey found that two-thirds of female passengers in their twenties and thirties had been groped. Because the problem is so prevalent in that country — and the authorities are so ineffective at controlling it – some train lines have instituted women-only train cars in an attempt to cut down on groping (and on false accusations of groping as well).  “Women-only” train cars have also introduced, in a limited way, in India, where harassment of women in public – known as “Eve teasing” – is distressingly common.
So what’s more appalling – the fact that groping on trains is so common in Japan that two-thirds of young women commuters have had to endure it themselves, or the fact that a small number of train cars have been set aside for women in a fairly half-assed attempt to curtail some of this groping?
For a lot of MRAs, the latter. The subject came up on Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit recently, inspiring some of the regulars to fulminate against this allegedly misandrist outrage. Fatalistic pulled out the n-word and this facile comparision:
Here’s what I’m seeing here: “At least we let you in the back of the bus, nigger.”
ExpendableOne, meanwhile, managed to work in a staggering number of standard-issue MRA complaints into this one sentence:
I think it’s discrimination and subjugation entirely based on misandry, negative male type-casting/stereotyping and anti-male heterophobia.
Ztakn seemed to suggest that it was all part of some oddly indirect money-making scheme on the part of, I guess, women:
To keep it short they exploit and propagate fears not only demonizing men in society but also terrorizing women and scaring the shit out of them making them more paranoid than they need to be.
And then they do it for money.
How would that work exactly?
1) Get groped
2) Set up women-only train cars
3) ???
4) Profit?
Given that the Men’s Rights subreddit is one of the few Men’s Rights forums online that is not completely overrun with misogynist fanatics, there were others who responded more reasonably. Alienblonde noted:
In Japan it’s a massive problem where school girls get groped by older males on trains in peak hour.
Happened to me in Europe too when I was back packing. Some old Spanish guy sat beside me and decided to feel me up.
Women shouldn’t have to deal with this and unfortunately, until it stops happening, I think [women only train cars are] justified.
Naturally, this being a Men’s Rights forum, she quickly found herself the focus of a game of “blame the victim.” Fatalistic accused her of “[j]ustifying discrimination with this all men are potential criminals feminist dogma.”  When she pointed out that she was not, in fact, doing this, he moved on to castigating her for not making a public scene when she was groped:
You should out the people who actually do these things rather than treat the rest of us as criminals by default with disgusting bigoted policies and the back of the bus mentality.
When she pointed out that this could have put her in more serious danger, he merely scoffed:
You would have to be paranoid and spoonfed the most egregious of feminist women are helpless, men are unstoppable beasts that need other men with guns to drag them away dogma to believe that all but the most psychopathic would persist or try to harm you if you outed them to a crowd for their actions.
Easy for you to say.
Of course, when women DO confront sexual harassers on trains, as I noted in a post on the infamous New York Subway flasher last November, they get reactions like this sarcastic Reddit comment from one member of the men-are-oppressed club.
Yes, because obviously her heterophobia needs to be glorified… Penises are so disgusting and scary, obviously women should totally be justified in fearing them and there couldn’t possibly be any kind of misandry involved with such contempt, befuddlement or “helplessness/horror” to the mere sigh[t] of male anatomy. /s
Yep, if you’re a woman on a train, not wanting to have some random dude pull his penis out and rub it on you is “heterophobia.” Who knew?
In the case of the subway flasher, the alleged perp did indeed flee when confronted. (He was later arrested.) That’s pretty much the best-case scenario. But it’s hardly the only possible result, and it’s understandable why a woman riding the train to work (much less one backpacking alone in a foreign country) would hesitate to publicly accuse a groper of groping her. Having women-only train cars cuts down on the number of times women are put in this difficult situation.
Yes, in an ideal world, there would be no need for women-only train cars. In an ideal world, men wouldn’t grope women on trains.
Mr. Kobold, I HATE 4th EDITION!
That is all.
Mr. Kobold, I HATE 4th EDITION!
I stopped playing at 3.5. There are so many better games out there!
I still play 3.5 occasionally with my friends, its fun, we just don’t always have time to run campaigns. 4th is bizarre by comparison.
Yeah. Once 4th came out I broke off and started playing other games, and it was the best decision I ever made. But I’m still bitter about how WoC ruined D&D.
Plz describe “more politely” to me? How am I treated more politely? You said you’re SURE of this. Okay then, tell me how my life is? You said you dunno, then you said you do. When I talk to a cashier, how do they treat me vs how do they treat you?
You’re SURE of this but you’re afraid to compare your theories to reality xD So how are you so sure? How sure ARE you?
You claim ALL THE TIME that life is different for women than men. That women get more attention, that women have no trouble finding dates, that dates find US, etc etc… and you’re spat on and scorned… so… plz tell me? You claim that your life is the way it is cuz you’re a man, and that women (like that woman who you claim stole your job) have it the way they do b/c they’re a woman. You REFUSE to acknowledge (as Pecunium keeps pointing out to you) that this could be about INDIVIDUALS xD That maybe she was hired for reasons OTHER than being a woman… or that you didn’t get the job b/c you are a man.
But now you’re claiming this is all individual. And I’m an individual, and you can’t assume. xD
Maybe this will help you in your worldview and realizing that you actually AREN’T so sure of your worldview, that when challenged to actually think about it, you can’t assume what a man’s life or a woman’s life is like just knowing their gender (or even knowing the appearance details of them) xD The fact that you don’t have the slightest clue where to start w/ me even tho you know my gender and my appearance, should say something to you, that a lot of this is gut reaction, and anger and possibly depression, but when you actually think about it, you realize that it isn’t as simple as you put it w/ average heighted men all having your life and your exps and women all having another life and another exp. 🙂
And hopefully that (along with the advice about depression and joining clubs and stuff) will help you feel a little better, a little calmer, and a little happier, or at least put you on a path to that :]
So, everybody, what do you all think of the line-wide reboot at DC? It seems like a pretty stupid move, if you ask me.
I hope it doesn’t frell up the Batman Inc. stuff that Morrison’s putting out. That stuff has been my favourite Batman comics in years.
Yeah. Once 4th came out I broke off and started playing other games, and it was the best decision I ever made.
If you like fantasy games, I recommend Houses of the Blooded, it’s pretty awesome.
So, everybody, what do you all think of the line-wide reboot at DC? It seems like a pretty stupid move, if you ask me.
I hope it doesn’t frell up the Batman Inc. stuff that Morrison’s putting out. That stuff has been my favourite Batman comics in years.
This is why we need a forum 🙂
Blacks are more violent than whites………..citation needed.
Why in the world would MRAL think he would be a good fit as an intern for a place that has “a history of affirmative action”. Whoever interviewed him made the best call evar. Why would he want that job anyway, given how he feels about affirmative action. And what the hell is it with the whole affirmative action quota BS. I have worked at places as the only black person there, so the quota is one? and how exactly is this so called quota enforced? Is there an affirmative action inspector that randomly goes to places like health inspectors do restaurants?
I gave up on both Marvel and DC a long time ago xD (but to get my thoughts on comics just look thru my blog or my reviews :3 i have so many posts there from everything to how I feel about the leadership of the big 2, to sexism and racism in comics, to how comic writers write teenagers, and the non stop reboots/preboots/dasboots/uggboots/etc xD )
“I still play 3.5 occasionally with my friends, its fun, we just don’t always have time to run campaigns. 4th is bizarre by comparison.”
Me and my crew actually came up with a really good hybrid between the two that worked really good for a long-running campaign. Then we switched to 4 mostly because our schedules got so insane it was hard to keep something weekly going so we had to come up with scenarios that were ideal for quick bouts of hilarious monster murder.
I’m curious MRAL: if you had been passed over for this internship in favor of another man, would you have concluded that he was better qualified than you? Or if he was, in your opinion, one of these so-called “alphas”, would you have assumed it was down to his attractiveness? I’m betting the latter
You seem to have set up a system in which nothing is your fault. You can’t get a date? It is because your eyes are not optimally symmetrical. You have trouble striking up conversations with women? It is because they are stuck-up alpha bitches. You didn’t get an internship you wanted? It is because the other candidate benefited from “female privilege.” Your life is unhappy and unfulfilling? It is because a metaphorical god fucked you at birth.
Are you beginning to see a pattern here?
That’s something else I was wondering, MRAL… it doesn’t seem to be about men and women as much as tall and attractive, or skillful and popular, or rich and successful, men and women since fat women and short men according to you don’t get any “privileges” and yet somehow this is a war of the genders o_O;; It sounds like that when we put everything you’ve said together, your issues are not about genders at all but about various social dynamics (as Pecunium and others have said) 🙂
Well you probably are fat.
lol, I knew it was coming but it was still pretty damn funny. And thanks for that, man. You are the blindingly self-centered gift that keeps on giving.
You’re right, of course. Women never ever have problems, except if they’re fat, and that’s only because they deserve it for being disgusting fat chicks. If they complain about having problems, they’re just getting hysterical over trivial shit. If they handle problems well, it’s just because it was only trivial shit anyway.
Conversely, no one truly understands the deep black torment that clings to your soul like the pitch on the hull of a forlorn ghost ship in a sea of despair and agony, ringed all ’round with the kelp of loneliness.
This whole thing has a very good chance of evaporating all my interest in non-Vertigo DC comics. I never thought that would happen.
It all depends on what’s going on with the Batman books, and what Morrison and Simone are writing.
Also, they’re saying the new DC universe will be more diverse, but the first image they’ve released is of a group shot with only one woman and one non-white person. Seems fishy to me.
Also, also, Jim Lee’s costume designs suck.
Changing the nym.
There’s no point in keeping the Sadly, No! name-changing gimmick if I can’t actually change my name all the time. From now on out, I’m sticking with this one.
MRAL: We all know women get hired over more qualified men regularly.
No, we don’t. You may believe it, but that doesn’t make it so.
What I do know (from having been a manager of people) is that almost all jobs have more people available to fill them then there are positions to fill. This is even more true for things like internships which can be useful in a career.
So what affirmative action does is say, “Pay attention to “x” group. They are underrepresented. If you find one who is as qualified as the white male… the tie is decided for the minority.”
The thing is, there are so many applicants, for jobs, that it’s gimme that someone qualified, won’t get it. Is it possible to unfairly select someone? Yes, but not at the initial hiring stage (not, that is where some form of specific favoritism isn’t skewing things).
I was in the Army. That is, actually, the most “affirmative action” place there is. Because the rules are that one must “norm”, if at all possible, the ratio of promotions to the national average of the population. If a selection cycle fails to do that, there is a whole lot of explaining to do. It happens, every few years, that blacks don’t make O4-O5 (i.e. Major and Lt. Colonel) in the right numbers. The usual reason is that they don’t have the required schools (Army courses; not civilian), and the thing the Army works on next is seeing why that happened (which is usually individual error, officers are responsible for managing their own careers). If it happens that a command is arranging things so that blacks/women/hispanics can’t attend schools, then corrections are made.
In the NCO ranks it’s not an issue at all. Blacks, in particular make up a disproportionate percentage of senior NCOs. Higher than it would seem to be the case on cohort numbers (Blacks make up about 12 percent of the total US population, and about 20 percent of any single recruiting year, but they make up about 35 percent of the Senior NCOs).
Why? First the Army is affirmative in looking for talent. If someone is smart, but educationally deficient, his first-line supervisor will (usually) recommend an assignment to a community college to get the needed skills (this is usually a problem with written English; more specialised skills, like the; limited, trigonometry needed for artillery are taught in Army schools). Then they go to the Army Schools they need to get on the promotion list. After that (from E6 up) it’s a purely point based system.
So why do blacks out perform? Because they stay in the Army. I did a career. Of the people who joined in my recruiting year, half were gone four years later.
So no, I don’t know that women get hired instead of “better” qualified men. I think they get hired instead of equally qualified men.
I don’t have a problem with that.
Well I fucking do. That’s BULLSHIT, and FUCKING SHIT FUCK that SHIT MORE FUCKING ways to PRIVILEGE BITCHES.
And this is why ppl wonder… xD
But regardless, I hope you took what I said and the other stuff that ppl have said here to heart 🙂 I mean I know you seem to want to believe certain things rly badly, but it rly seems like you even know that things aren’t that way when you rly think about it :]
Mr. Al: Count me in as one of those women with a great resume for the jobs I’ve been applying for, lots of pertinent experience, a strong scholastic record, interviewing skills that … could use work, but aren’t bad; and yet, I’ve been sending out resumes for two years (more or less). Every single time, someone else applies who’s better qualified for the position in some way. In my last school program, it would kill me to see people with less experience and worse grades get jobs when I couldn’t.
But employers are tricky. I’ve interviewed people, and I’ve probably made the wrong choice, or at least not the very best choice. I would look for the person I thought could do the job best; and to a certain extent that meant choosing someone with the correct educational background and work experience, but just as important was their attitude, passion for the work, skills like organization and communication, personal traits like a cheerful personality or a lack of energy, and even, somewhat subconsciously, I suppose I would try to pick someone similar to the last person who held the position and the other people in the office.
If you don’t seem like someone the interviewer would want to work with, you could be screwed. If you don’t seem like you’d fit in to the corporate culture, you could be screwed. It has to do with a lot more than GPA and work experience — and gender. And yes: if it needed to be repeated, I’ll repeat it. (Some) women have the same difficult time finding a job that (some) men do. If your career office didn’t explain that you’ll get rejection letters a lot more than you’ll get job offers, they’re not doing their job.
hmpf. No wonder everyone’s hanging out in the book thread.
Agree with Bee. Interviewing is one of the toughest things to do well.
Well I fucking do. That’s BULLSHIT, and FUCKING SHIT FUCK that SHIT MORE FUCKING ways to PRIVILEGE BITCHES.
well, if two people are pretty equally qualified, I am pretty sure that I would NOT hire the one whose body language talks like this.
What’s bullshit? That when equally qualified, the minority applicant might get preference?
I get that you have a problem with that. You just don’t like it when we tell you what the problem really is.
The problem is that the presumption that men must be better qualified is rubbish. That presumption is what’s known as, “privilege”. If I have 90 men applying for a job, and 10 women; and I have one qualified woman, and one qualified man…
Then in a fair world I can choose whichever one I want, right?
I can make the decision on whatever basis I like… right? Because they are both qualified. I can only hire one. How do I choose.
I don’t have a problem with that call being for the minority. Be it blacks, whites, women, short Russians, whatever.
Want to know what I do have a problem with? Fields like Occupational Therapy, or Nursing, or Childcare, or Teaching. where the dominant demographic is female, and somehow the majority of the managers are mostly male. I don’t believe that when 10 percent of the career field is female, that 90 percent of the people qualified to manage are male.
But you keep going on that the system is rigged against men.
I’ll put it into words you might understand a little more plainly, words I know you understand.
“That’s BULLSHIT, and FUCKING SHIT FUCK that SHIT MORE FUCKING ways to PRIVILEGE [MEN].”
I like how, ages ago, MRAL said something like “I’d never let myself get fat” if he was a woman. In all his 20yo wisdom. Any chance that, if he broke his leg badly and couldn’t exercise, suffered from depression, a hormone imbalance, metabolism slowed because he’d gotten older…he might actually gain weight? Or if he had a different set of genetics he might be fat even while eating the same things and engaging in exactly the same exercise regime he does now (I am presuming that he eats healthily and exercises – otherwise he’s a big hypocrite)? Or if he were raised in household that had a messed up relationship to food and exercise? Any chance that, if he were a woman, he might get pregnant and find it difficult to lose the associated weight cos he was looking after a freaking kid, hormones are crazy, and had no sleep or time to cook healthy meals? Or was too poor to buy fresh produce? Oh no. MRAL NEVER would let himself get fat.
And that is why all fat chicks are evil.*
Also, non-consensual groping is wrong. Seriously. It hurts people and makes them feel unsafe (fyi- getting harassed on WOW doesn’t actually involve threatening your physical safety).
*logic fail
“Well I fucking do. That’s BULLSHIT, and FUCKING SHIT FUCK that SHIT MORE FUCKING ways to PRIVILEGE BITCHES.”
MRAL, you’re either a troll, or you have intellectual difficulty putting on pants in the morning.