In various countries around the world, women and teenage girls are regularly groped while riding commuter trains. This, I suspect, is not news to most of you; indeed, I know one reader of this blog who’s had this happen to her. In Japan, one survey found that two-thirds of female passengers in their twenties and thirties had been groped. Because the problem is so prevalent in that country — and the authorities are so ineffective at controlling it – some train lines have instituted women-only train cars in an attempt to cut down on groping (and on false accusations of groping as well). “Women-only” train cars have also introduced, in a limited way, in India, where harassment of women in public – known as “Eve teasing” – is distressingly common.
So what’s more appalling – the fact that groping on trains is so common in Japan that two-thirds of young women commuters have had to endure it themselves, or the fact that a small number of train cars have been set aside for women in a fairly half-assed attempt to curtail some of this groping?
For a lot of MRAs, the latter. The subject came up on Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit recently, inspiring some of the regulars to fulminate against this allegedly misandrist outrage. Fatalistic pulled out the n-word and this facile comparision:
Here’s what I’m seeing here: “At least we let you in the back of the bus, nigger.”
ExpendableOne, meanwhile, managed to work in a staggering number of standard-issue MRA complaints into this one sentence:
I think it’s discrimination and subjugation entirely based on misandry, negative male type-casting/stereotyping and anti-male heterophobia.
Ztakn seemed to suggest that it was all part of some oddly indirect money-making scheme on the part of, I guess, women:
To keep it short they exploit and propagate fears not only demonizing men in society but also terrorizing women and scaring the shit out of them making them more paranoid than they need to be.
And then they do it for money.
How would that work exactly?
1) Get groped
2) Set up women-only train cars
3) ???
4) Profit?
Given that the Men’s Rights subreddit is one of the few Men’s Rights forums online that is not completely overrun with misogynist fanatics, there were others who responded more reasonably. Alienblonde noted:
In Japan it’s a massive problem where school girls get groped by older males on trains in peak hour.
Happened to me in Europe too when I was back packing. Some old Spanish guy sat beside me and decided to feel me up.
Women shouldn’t have to deal with this and unfortunately, until it stops happening, I think [women only train cars are] justified.
Naturally, this being a Men’s Rights forum, she quickly found herself the focus of a game of “blame the victim.” Fatalistic accused her of “[j]ustifying discrimination with this all men are potential criminals feminist dogma.” When she pointed out that she was not, in fact, doing this, he moved on to castigating her for not making a public scene when she was groped:
You should out the people who actually do these things rather than treat the rest of us as criminals by default with disgusting bigoted policies and the back of the bus mentality.
When she pointed out that this could have put her in more serious danger, he merely scoffed:
You would have to be paranoid and spoonfed the most egregious of feminist women are helpless, men are unstoppable beasts that need other men with guns to drag them away dogma to believe that all but the most psychopathic would persist or try to harm you if you outed them to a crowd for their actions.
Easy for you to say.
Of course, when women DO confront sexual harassers on trains, as I noted in a post on the infamous New York Subway flasher last November, they get reactions like this sarcastic Reddit comment from one member of the men-are-oppressed club.
Yes, because obviously her heterophobia needs to be glorified… Penises are so disgusting and scary, obviously women should totally be justified in fearing them and there couldn’t possibly be any kind of misandry involved with such contempt, befuddlement or “helplessness/horror” to the mere sigh[t] of male anatomy. /s
Yep, if you’re a woman on a train, not wanting to have some random dude pull his penis out and rub it on you is “heterophobia.” Who knew?
In the case of the subway flasher, the alleged perp did indeed flee when confronted. (He was later arrested.) That’s pretty much the best-case scenario. But it’s hardly the only possible result, and it’s understandable why a woman riding the train to work (much less one backpacking alone in a foreign country) would hesitate to publicly accuse a groper of groping her. Having women-only train cars cuts down on the number of times women are put in this difficult situation.
Yes, in an ideal world, there would be no need for women-only train cars. In an ideal world, men wouldn’t grope women on trains.
Evidently Ami Wing, anyway according to one of your posts to me from way back this video one of my friends sent me today will be just as appreciated by you as it was by me.
“Her GPA was in the high 2′s and she had zero work experience. No I didn’t look at her resume, but I KNOW FOR A FACT I was better qualified than she was”
Um, no, you don’t know for a fact then.
Maybe you came off line an entitles dick in the interview and no one wanted to work with you. You know, like you come off here.
Seriously, even if you’re not an entitled dick, interviewing is hard. It requires people skills, which from everything you’ve said here you seem to be short on. Does your school’s career placement office do interview coaching sessions? Mine did and I found them helpful. Also practice practice practice. I’m still not an ace at interviewing but I’m way better now than I was in my early 20s and that was really all about experience. Also, I volunteered as an admissions interviewer for my college and THAT taught me hella about interviewing – listening to the answers I got back to my questions, thinking about what I was trying to ask for vs what I got back made me think about what was really being asked when I was on the other side of an interview. Good stuff.
I am able to do a very good interview because it’s a script, say the right things and smile and laugh in the right places. Yes, I did a few practice ones in high school and got good feedback, not that I’m super charismatic with it but I’m pretty good. So no.
Hmm, so when you were in the elevator with the girl, there was no way she could have been reacting to your creepy hate towards women. And in this interview there’s no way you came off as a elitist asshole who makes snap judgements about people’s credentials without any proof. I’m a seeing a pattern here.
@Mr. Kobold I found that cute even tho I didn’t get all the jokes (I think you missed where I said that it might surprise ppl but I’ve never played a pen and paper RPG in my life xD ) :3 ty for sharing it w/ me tho 😀
MRAL, you just follow a script? o_O;; (how do you think my interviews go btw :3 lots of giggling? SHOULD I giggle? would I get a job easier if I did? xD and do you think a more qualified woman would have gotten it if they were shorter? what’s the GPA to height ratio? o_O given that I’m not questioning nething you said about what you know of her xD )
But again, another question. You said previously about how you have high intelligence and other traits that would make you an alpha if looks didn’t matter. You also talk all the time about social freak alphas. Given your eye issue and your average height… I’m curious… what sorts of skills would you need to have to make you a social freak alpha and get a girlfriend (or have somebody smile back at you?)? What sorts of accomplishments or degrees or work history? What sort of fame? I’m just trying to see how you see your lot in life.. what do YOU think you would need to be a social freak alpha?
Have you ever thought of wearing sunglasses? or shades? 😀 1 guy I’m incredibly attracted to wear shades even indoors and I think that’s AWESOME xD
But srsly… when you’ve worn sunglasses or your eyes were maybe not visible to somebody, or when you’re talking online or on the phone…. do ppl react differently to you? Do girls smile back when you have sunglasses but not if you don’t? Have you tried wearing lifts and sunglasses and seeing if women rly do care about your eye and height? (and no, I dun generally go around checking to see if men are heightening, does nebody else? xD ) forget whether it’ll LAST, just do they react differently to you? Do they treat you like you presume taller men w/ better eyes get treated?
I’m gonna start off with this. If the situation is exactly as you described, and the job you were after required a high GPA, then I will agree you got shafted.
Forgive me for being skeptical. How did you know her gpa was in the high 2’s, did it just happen to come up? You also say you talked to her a “few times” and know she was dumb as shit… Well, given your views of women I’m not sure you are the best judge of this after talking to a woman for so short a time. Honestly I’ve met people who I could swear were “dumb as shit” because of their manner, but after talking to them, guess what? I was completely wrong.
But here is the main reason I don’t think things played out the way you say; companies, even though through affirmative action they have a quota they need to fit, still need to pick people good for the job. If there were just barely enough applicants, the MAYBE it would have been as you say (though again companies don’t want to hire people who are severely unfit for the job.) Either you have the wrong impression of her, or you are giving us facts that you don’t actually know.
re jobs: My réusmé is a mess. I’ve had a scattered career and people don’t really think being in the Army equals management skills.
I got rejected I don’t know how many times. People I know were less capable than I am got the job. Why? Because they had a better réusmé. I didn’t even get interviews. I don’t know how many réusmés I send out in 2008/09. Hundreds.
What I needed was an interview. Give me an interview and I will knock it out of the park. I spent 16 years doing interviews, and teaching people to do them. Specialised, but still those are skills which carry over.
So I got an interview. I started the next day.
You didn’t see her interview. You didn’t see her réusmé. You don’t know what recommndations she got. You don’t know what specific knowledge of the things the internship was about she might have had.
There may have been favoritism, completely unrelated to he sex. Maybe she has a prof who has an in with the people running the internship. Maybe her family donates.
You don’t know.
Why not throw nepotism in there as well MRAL which makes more sense or perhaps she was picked because she is not a seething mass of rage barely held in check?
Okay, fine, I don’t know, but you know what? I’m sure enough. And I’ve had suspicions before. We all know women get hired over more qualified men regularly. I’m sure enough.
@Shaenon
Yes, the upskirt photo problem has developed to such an extent that every cellphone comes with a photo-taking sound that cannot be naturally disabled or volume-lowered without hacking the phone. It’s not a perfect solution by any means at all, but it shows the kind of measures which are being taken and the cognizance that the problem itself is widespread.
And, back to MRAL for a moment, you are displaying a very bitter and entitled attitude. I’m four years older than you, and I haven’t had sex yet. (Well, not sex-sex), and what negligible sexual experience of any kind I have had, was brief, not exactly entirely pleasant (though, I stress, it was completely consensual, no pressure), and it didn’t happen at all until 20 years old, anyway!
So obviously, I have spent countless nights alone with my vibrator stewing in my hate and bitterness that every man I see one the street hasn’t immediately recognized my innate special specialness and swept me off to have wonderful sex with an experienced and considerate partner.
In fact, some of those men I asked out had the sheer audacity to reject me. “I’m flattered, but…” they said! What the hell! How could they virtually spit upon me like that?! Do they not realize how awesome I am?! It’s because my hair is frizzy right?
And then later, I applied to attend a conference and a guy at my job got it instead of me, and though I didn’t know him that well and never saw his resume, CLEARLY he must suck in comparison to my awesomeness. It SURELY had nothing to do with any of the things the review board was nice enough to point out about my application when I asked them in hopes of improving myself in the future. Well, FUCK THOSE FUCKING FUCKERS!
Also, inb4 “you must be fat” or something of that nature. Sigh.
@PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth Your last line had me thinking about some dark hateful energy entity being held in place by forcefields or something to give it form xD Like Anubis in Stargate or Armas from TNG xD and it made me sporfle XD
Well you probably are fat.
…this is not happening again….
MRAL is allergic to me xD or afraid xD BE AFFFRAAIIDDD
Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | June 1, 2011 at 7:35 pm
Okay, fine, I don’t know, but you know what? I’m sure enough. And I’ve had suspicions before. We all know women get hired over more qualified men regularly. I’m sure enough.
“We” do? 😮 What makes you sure “enough”? What’s “enough?” What proof would you need to sway you the other way?
(Lemme guess xD For you to be hired xD )
Lemme tell you a little story, MRAL.
A man in a village insisted on wearing a blindfold, though he was not blind. The villagers asked him why, and he said “Well, its always black out anyway, I don’t see why I should bother.” The villagers were taken aback: “But, its light out now! You can see tables, and flowers, and houses!” But the man stood firm. On and on the villagers pestered, until finally the man got angry. “Fine,” he said, “I’ll take off the blindfold.” But of course, it was a cloudy night outside, and the man couldn’t see anything. That was enough for him, so he put on the blindfold and never took it off until the day he died.
This is the danger of limited evidence. When you are convinced of an idea, your preconceptions shape your experience of evidence, and you only ever see more proof of your convictions, while ignoring everything against it. Assume you are wrong, doubt your convictions and look at the evidence with fresh eyes, always asking yourself “what does this evidence say about the world” and never “what does the way the world works have to say about this evidence.”
It is held by a force field-his skin.
MRAL you’re still not answering what you think my life is like? 🙂 Or the differences in your EVERY DAY life, as you go about that would change if you were male or female. What would be the difference to a cashier? Would ppl approach you when they do not now? In what ways are you oppressed in your routine life that you believe you would not be? The oppressed class, means that more would happen to you than just “I didn’t get this one job” or “I had a bad exp in an elevator once”
As I said, you reject what every woman tells you about their life (or you call them fat to ignore their experiences) and there’s this giant chasm between you and like.. Pecunium. And you talk about how you KNOW women have easy lives
so I’m asking you again, specify plz? 🙂 Tell ME how you think my day to day life goes. When I go to the mall? When I go shop for groceries, as you would? 🙂
I don’t know wtf your PERSONAL life is like. I know that, as a self-described attractive women, you are treated more politely- in every human interatcion- make friends more easily, and are given jobs more easily.
No you do not MRAL-by your own admission, fat chicks deserve nothing but hatred, scorn and other harsh treatment.
So in one instance, you assume that anyone who does not conform to your rigid physical standard is going to be treated with less respect then you-someone you hate.
Interviewing is a script? Uh, no. There’s more to it than that. Developing an actual rapport with the person, making them feel like someone they’d actually like to interact with on a daily basis is all part of it. Giving correct factual answers to convince them you know your shit, sure, that is also part of it. Depending on the job it can be a really BIG part. But it’s never the only thing.
Maybe the interviewer was a fat chick.
MRAL,
I am not fat, not by any reasonable definition (BMI says I’m ten lbs underweight). I had sex for the first time just last year. I am twenty-three. I have only had two boyfriends in my life. I was one of the last people in my class to secure an internship before graduation, and the only reason I have a full-time job right now is sheer fluke that a small company I ran into just so happened to need someone with my skills. Hell, I didn’t get my first job at all till I was nineteen. It would seem my female privilege is broken or something. Or, you know, maybe it doesn’t exist and no matter how many people tell me I’m “cute” or even “drop-dead gorgeous”, I’m still not going to get a job or keep it if I don’t work at it. And I work damn hard (126 hours in the space of nine days once). Likewise, my shyness around people, especially men I’m attracted to, is why I was a virgin so long.
As for street sexual assaults just being “cop and run”? Bullshit. I was felt up on the bus for all to see for the entire duration of my bus ride home from work. Oh, but I’m lying? Fuck you. I’d side with Kave’s joke except that I don’t wish sexual harassment or sexual assault on anyone. Not even filth – yes, filth – like you. If I ever talked to you outside the net, I might just spit on you. Then you could finally say a woman actually spit on you, but I’ll tell you right now that neither your height (my best guy friend is shorter than me) nor your eye (I’m an artist; I can see past any deformity if you’re pleasant enough) would be the cause. No, it’s because you, as a person, are filthy.
Have a nice life, at least as best as you’ll allow yourself to. One of my favourite teachers in high school had a word for people like you: negatron.
We all know women get hired over more qualified men regularly. I’m sure enough.
NWOslave is ‘sure enough’ that the black helicopters are coming for him Any Day Now and that feminism is a Marxist conspiracy. That doesn’t mean he’s right.
Maybe she had something on her resume that really stood out and convinced the interviewer that she’d be a capable intern. Maybe she gave a really good interview, and demonstrated how she’d be able to use what she learned in her internship to further her career. Maybe she just knew someone at the company (nepotism kind of sux, but at least it’s equal-opportunity – nothing is preventing you from going out and networking in your chosen field).