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alpha males beta males masculinity pics PUA saturday morning cartoons

Saturday Morning Cartoons: Choosing a husband, and the world’s first PUA

In light of some recent discussions here, I thought this cartoon seemed relevant.  I got it from my new favorite Tumblr blog, Comically Vintage. It’s astounding how many of the comic panels posted there — especially those from melodramatic 60s-70s romance comics — apply to the arguments in and around the manosphere today. Perhaps because the world in which these guys live is as imaginary and out-of-date as the fantasy world of 40 or 50 year-old Romance comics.

And while we’re on the subject, here’s a bonus cartoon. Here, crawling from the primordial soup, is the world’s first PUA! (Granted, he hasn’t quite worked out all of the tenets of modern Game, but, hey, he’s still a lizard. Just as human evolution took millions of years, evolving something as complex as modern PUA theory takes time.)

Hmm. That fish over there has sprouted legs. Is that an IOI?
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kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

Indeed, some of my most profound conversations occured at 4 in the morning with friends. At least, they seemed profound at the time… hmm….

Holly
9 years ago

A request to David: this place needs a real-time chatroom or a forum.

Or I guess I could start an IRC channel…

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

No Holly! Must… Continuously.. Create… 600-post-long threads! Each less than two sentences long!

Holly
9 years ago

It’s sort of a de facto forum, huh?

Johnny Pez
9 years ago

Hobbies? Used to play RPG, used to juggle. Read (SF, history), write (alt-hist), walk my dogs, go out with my wife.

And Holly, how am I supposed to mock MRAL when you’re busy trying to reform him? How about showing a guy some consideration, huh?

darksidecat
darksidecat
9 years ago

I had far more hobbies and out of class socializing when I was an undergrad. The big lectures for 1Ls overstimulate me and most days I could not bear much in person socialization outside of them. Hopefully, next semester’s smaller classes will let me have enough energy left over to join some of the undergrad groups (as all law school socialization tends to revolve around booze and I do not drink, nerdy undergrad clubs are the way to go). So, my hobbies at the moment are the kind of things one can generally do alone-video games, movies, anime, drawing, reading, etc. Maybe I should take up programming, but my computer skills are a bit behind (I did not have regular computer or internet access until five years ago when I was seventeen). Still, I kick butt at formal logic, so I might be able to catch up if I get interested enough to put in the effort (I have trouble with being extremely lazy in regards to things I am not immediately interested in).

katz
9 years ago

Sorry, my internet is really spotty.

Yes, there are breed standards for hamsters just like for cats and dogs, and you can get show-quality hamsters from a breeder (for like $10, because it’s still a hamster). The [[http://chahamsters.org/ California Hamster Association]] holds shows around here.

Mostly they’re just judged by the breed standards, but there is a hamster ball race (with separate categories for Syrians and dwarves, naturally).

Johnny Pez
9 years ago

(with separate categories for Syrians and dwarves, naturally)

This goes without saying.

Holly
9 years ago

Everything about that website is incredibly adorable.

…and now my guinea pigs are looking at me with what I hallucinate to be envy for betraying their species. Aw sweeties, you’ll always be my favorite rodents.

(They are red and white Dutch-patterned Teddy pigs, and while nowhere near show quality–the standards for a correct Dutch pattern are quite harsh–they’re my sweeties and that’s enough.)

C.C. Fuss
C.C. Fuss
9 years ago

Yaknow, some years ago I moved to my current city for work. I knew noone here, and it turned out my colleagues were antisocial and uninterested in befriending the new girl. Because not many people move here from outside, this city is very insular and unwelcoming to strangers. Most people’s social lives revolve around their old school friends.

Add to this that I’m by nature socially awkward and highly uncomfortable simply intruding on a group of strangers, and I had a very rough time of it.

What I did was, go all-out to find ways to meet people. When I managed to get in a conversation, I asked them about what they did, and then sometimes asked them how I could try that. I did a whole bunch of stuff I’d never done before – joined a hiking group, volunteered at the animal shelter, found a folk centre and started playing folk music. And I made friends, as well as gaining some really useful social skills and confidence in meeting strangers, and finding some fantastic new hobbies.

The thing is, I did not wait for people to come to me, and I certainly didn’t approach them thinking that they owed me anything, or that I was warranted in feeling angry if they didn’t respond. I had to make a lot of attempts to find the few things and people that did work out. I had to go way outside my comfort zone. Many times.

MRAL – Go into situations without thinking that people are obliged to interact with you, and without ruminating about how they’re probably just going to be rude, the bitches, like always. No matter what you say, and how you think you’re behaving, that attitude will come across in your body language, and you’ll seem angry and hostile. Also, try to think about what you can offer to them, as well as the other way around.

katz
9 years ago

Piggies are indeed adorable! Have you got any pictures?

Holly
9 years ago

Not on hand, but this is my old, sadly departed guinea pig Sally: http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6128/img0714.jpg

and

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6536/img0724.jpg

Lady Victoria von Syrus
Lady Victoria von Syrus
9 years ago

The conundrum of choosing to DM or just play is an interesting one

For me, it depends on the game. I can play in almost any system, but I have to really feel the setting to be able to GM it properly. One of my favorite games to GM is Houses of the Blooded, a John Wick game, because the players have almost as much narrative control as the ST. I also really like the new Hunter game by White Wolf. And I’d probably get into Mage, but no one around me will run Mage: Revised :(. I’m actually co-running a Babylon 5 LARP in a week or so.

My other hobbies, aside from general nerdery, are sewing and cooking. No, really.

casual observer
casual observer
9 years ago

Didn’t Hugo Schwyzer recently get threats from a BU user?

girlscientist
girlscientist
9 years ago

“Well…… I still get angry when that happens. But more notably, women sometimes even ignore ACQUAINTANCES, which is most definitely spitting behavior.”

MRAL, I know where you’re coming from. Where I live I’ve always been a foreigner with a strange name and a kooky personality. I’ve met tons of people, myn and wymyn, who have made fun of me for who I am or who have just been plain rude to me. I know exactly how painful it is, and there have been times that I’ve been very bitter about it, too.

But you know what? The only thing that these people are really telling you is that they have a horrible personality and that you should steer clear from them. If they ignore you, feel free to ignore them too. Whatever it is you have that makes these people be rude to you is not a curse, it’s a gift: a way to separate nice people from horrible ones very fast. That way you won’t waste time befriending people who end up being incredibly shallow and boring.

Why should you care what they think about you? They don’t know you, so they have no idea what they’re talking about, and you don’t like them anyway, so the contempt is mutual. If you just go about your life without paying any attention to them, you will take away any power they have over you. Instead of being the “omega” to their “alpha” in terms of looks, make them the “omega” to your “alpha” in terms of having respect for yourself and knowing what’s important in life, which you will have plenty of time for once you stop obsessing over them. You want to know secret? They don’t have time to find what is actually important to them because they’re too busy obsessing over themselves, their status among their friends and if these designer jeans make them look fat. How pathetic is that?

I agree with what everyone is saying here: join clubs. If the people in the club are cliquish, or if the atmosphere in the club doesn’t suit you for a reason, leave and join another one. If the atmosphere in the club is fun and people include you in the group, stay. Pay attention to people for reasons other than their looks (their hobbies, the movies, music or games they like,… things you might have in common with them). You’ll end up with a range of interesting, fun friends of all body type and attractiveness. And yes, even girls who you find attractive and who will find you attractive, too.

In short: let go of the bitterness, it’s cramping your style 🙂

girlscientist
girlscientist
9 years ago

Oops. Sorry about the html fail. [Fixed! –DF]

casual observer
casual observer
9 years ago
Sonneillon
Sonneillon
9 years ago

Wow, the ‘ugly’ guy has all the earmarks, pun intended, of the stereotypical Irish. Subtle, guys, subtle.

ithiliana
9 years ago

David, a report on trends in marriage and divorce in the US — I was especially interested by the correlation between education and divorce! (This link goes to blog talking about the report, but that blog entry has link to full report).

Nice graphics too!

http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/05/29/u-s-trends-in-marriage-divorce-and-cohabitation/

Xtra
9 years ago

The first scenario (not saying anything) is spitting behavior.

I never knew, I’ve been spit on thousands of times by men and women of all ages, children too. Yesterday this elderly lady spit on me.

Women get that for some men hello = how bout some dick?

Spearhafoc, who is changing his nym
Spearhafoc, who is changing his nym
9 years ago

Major trigger warning here:

This is the worst t-shirt I have ever seen. I saw this this morning and can’t get over it. It just boggles my mind.

Who the flying fuck would wear this?

Pecunium
9 years ago

MRAL: It’s only a problem when a woman is not alpha-level herself but refuses to even talk to betas or omegas, considers herself better than them, and is in general a bitch.

What tripe. This is utter nonsense (delusional in fact). It’s completely subjective, and has some narcissistic aspects, when combined with your idea that for someone to not respond to your overtures with the reactions you want (i.e.the woman in the elevator who didn’t say hello in the right way) is, “spitting” on you, and knowing that you are the one deciding who it is who isn’t “alpha enough” to not be obliged to talk to you… that’s a delusion; a belief contrary to actual fact.

No one is required to speak to anyone. Ever.

Add the repeated themes of violence to women who don’t give you the “respect” you think you deserve (and why do you deserve it? if you are so omega? I mean you keep saying how hideous your eye is, and how pathetically short you are; when we add how brutish your thoughts are… I can see that you might be right in thinking you are “omega” and a woman who deigned to have any sort of interaction with you might be making a serious mistake.

Not because of your looks, but because you are a violent person. You harbor some very angry attitudes, and seem to have some disturbingly violent ideations as a result of the skewed views you have on 1: your status in the world,and 2: how other people think/act.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Re the whole issue of “urban interaction”: I’ve spent time in a lot of urban areas (San Jose, San Diego, Chicago, Boston, NYC, Jersey City, DC) I’ve lived in big towns, small towns, and cities (I’ve lived in little spots where it was three miles to the nearest other building, and in areas with millions of people). I have to say, 1: I’ve never found anyplace to be all that “rude”, in baseline behavior.

I suspect that’s just me. Even in cities in foreign countries (Quito, Kiev, Nürnbeg, Ottawa, Inverness), I’ve never had trouble with the locals. The only one which seemed at all, “cold” was London, but I wasn’t feeling my best).

But they do have different cultures. Being in Maine, (near Naples) the people were (to me) less outgoing than they were in Boston or New York. What I do notice is the “friction interactions” (where one is just passing people in the street) are different. That tends to be a function of street density, and weather. New York in the summer is lots of people just swirling past, and a lot of people who will, at the least sign of interaction, talk to you. Share an observation about something going on across the street, etc.

The clerks in stores are a lot less friendly than they are in LA, or SF, or Laramie, or Kearney, but the people in passing seem to be friendlier; if they think there is some reason to strike up a passing conversation.

Holly
9 years ago

Spearhafoc – Well, there’s only one answer to that:

http://www.dailytees.com/the-police-never-think-it-s-as-funny-as-you-do-shirt.html

ithiliana
9 years ago

Pecunium, that’s why I put “rude” in quotes (or tried to)–different standards of behavior are different standards of behavior. But a lot of people, the first time they have to interact with people from another cultural group, interpret them as being “rude” meaning “not behaving the way I was taught to behave.”

Lots of scholarship about this issue in regard to education because of different cultural mores about direct looks, who talks first in an interaction, what sort of pause is long enough in a conversation to invite new participation (shock shock, the pauses are shorter among certain groups in NYC than they are in other cultures–and not all people living in NYC either, etc), and how that affects education especially given how more teachers are from the dominant culture.

And yeah, MRAL’s leap from women in general to this incredibly small and self defined sub-group who should treat him well because, well, he is the center of the universe, and his surety he knows who/what they are–definitely a danger signal. I’m beginning to wonder if he doesn’t prefer thinking that everybody hates him and wants to spit on him rather than acknowledge the truth–that he’s not even a blip on the radar for most people (just like most of us aren’t even blips on radars for most of the people around us).

KristinMH
9 years ago

Yeah, local culture makes a big difference in what is considered polite passerby behaviour. I once did a gig in Charlottetown and was totally floored when I tried to jaywalk and the cars just stopped.

I too am sorry to know I’ve been spitting on MRAL-types for years. Mostly because I always have earphones in and can’t hear them, but that’s no excuse!

Holly
9 years ago

The violence really is the dealbreaker. If he was only lonely and bitter, I would seriously consider meeting this kid and trying to show him in person that people can be decent–but once that becomes a safety risk, I can’t consider it.

You can be the sexiest motherfucker on Earth, but if you say something that suggests you might physically hurt me if you get angry, you’re instantly whatever letter comes after omega.

I do hope that as MRAL goes out in the world more and gets more into extracurriculars and stuff, he’s really good at not just hiding that anger but actually letting go of it.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

If anything, I feel even worse! I’m a guy, and who knows how many women I’ve spit on without even realizing it! I mean, at least MRAL expects to be spit on constantly, but these women are used to getting all the dick they want! And now here’s this guy walking down the street, spitting on every woman in site! I feel terrible…

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

I used to live in a really rural area, where the “car wave” was expected — you know, the wave over the steering wheel at the approaching car in the other lane. Despite that, I don’t know that even the people in town (though friendly) could have lived up to Mr. Al’s expectations for human interactions. Sometimes I’d see someone I knew very well, and say hello … and they wouldn’t say hello back! Or they would say hello, but they weren’t that enthusiastic about it. And that’s OK, because I understand that we all have our own lives and agendas, and sometimes people are late for work, or in a bad mood, or not paying attention, etc. Mr. Al really needs to get over this idea that he’s the star of the show and everything revolves around him.

Holly: What a cute piggy! I love piggies.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Motorcycling has a “wave” culture. It’s actually sort of funny, in New Hampshire I was feeling a little like MRAL, because none of the local riders seemed to ever, “drop a a hand.” They were all friendly enough when stopped, but on the road they never waved.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Things I enjoy doing: Photography, hiking, fencing, shooting, gardnening, cooking, teaching, motorcycling, rock-climbing, writing (blogging, commenting and specific purpose), horseback riding, camping, singing.

Itellectual interests: Philosophy, religion, politics, photography, cooking, biology, military history, political history, persnal histories, language.

I’ve done mouse and rat shows (when my ex and I were breeding snakes we were also breeding rats, mice, chickens and guinea pigs). They are a lot more fun than a description sounds, in part because of the people one gets to meet.

There are (though they tend to be on the down-low) a lot of snake keepers, who also breed rodents, and show them.

Plymouth
Plymouth
9 years ago

Whoa. So MRAL moved from a small town to BOSTON. That explain SO MUCH!! Former Bostonian here (well, I grew up in a suburb of Boston and then went to college across the river). I think I’m one of the only people I know who moved from the Boston area to the San Francisco area and DIDN’T notice an increase in general friendliness. I think I brought a little bubble of cold impersonal Bostonian attitude with me and it reaches its cold tendrils out and affects everyone I meet. Either that or I’m just oblivious! Actually, I favor the latter explanation 🙂

katz
9 years ago

Agreed; the Boston thing really explains a lot. But MRAL never considered the possibility that people in Boston just act less like what other places consider to be friendly. He just assumes that everyone hates him.

With that baseline assumption, it’s going to be hard for him to ever enjoy anything.

Holly
9 years ago

Funny thing is, I think Boston is a relatively friendly place. But then again, I used to live in Seattle. People in Seattle are polite but not warm; people in Boston are warm but not polite. In Boston you get twice as many “fuck you”s and twice as many “we should hang out later”s. In particular, people in Boston seem more willing to strike up conversation with strangers–make a comment on some weird thing happening on the street, and often as not a total stranger will chime in and go “yeee-ah, that’s wicked weee-id.”

All this applies, however:

A) To the experiences of someone who feels secure in her social life, and so doesn’t have desperation or frustration weighing her down and projecting outward

B) To nonsexual situations, where I really was talking just to talk and had no thought of whether it was going to end up in bed–and it almost always didn’t.

sarahejones
9 years ago

Sorry, I’ve been lurking on this conversation and I’m probably way behind the game (though I now greatly desire to see a hamster show some day before I die). But I wanted to respond to MRAL’s definition of spitting behavior. You’d probably consider me one of those alpha bitches. But the reason I don’t always respond to strangers who say hi to me? It’s not because I wish to be rude. It’s because I’m shy, and I’m a survivor of abuse, and I don’t easily trust strangers.

So an honest question, MRAL, if you’re still reading these: has it occurred to you that just maybe, that woman who ignores you on the sidewalk is simply shy? Or has been hurt? Or is so accustomed to being objectified and harassed that she no longer feels comfortable interacting with strangers?

And I realize it’s quite a switch, moving from a small Maine town to Boston. My mother and her entire family are from Maine so I’ve spent some time there. My dad went to college in Boston too (New England Conservatory). It’s a difficult adjustment to make, but it will be even more difficult if you assign nefarious motives to every stranger you meet. We all have back stories.

girlscientist
girlscientist
9 years ago

David: Thank you for fixing my comment!

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

Posting to clarify that I’ve never commented on Schwyzer’s blog, so that has nothing to do with me.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

I 2nd what Sarahjaye says (as a survivor of rape, domestic abuse and stalking myself 🙁 )… but it doesn’t even have to be that… They could be thinking about something, or on their way to be a meeting, they could be nervous or scared or angry or thinking about an issue, or thinking about who will win the hockey game.. or whatever… assuming you know what’s going on in a person’s mind if they don’t acknowledge you or talk to you is a bad game to play at, and is also bad for the ol’ self esteem 🙁 (and as Kirbywarp says, men go about their business ignoring WOMEN all the time too… ppl have LIVES)

SallyStrange
SallyStrange
9 years ago

A while back, MRAL said this:

Not all alphas act in a certain way, just most of them. In other words, being an asshole isn’t a REQUIREMENT, but the entitlement placed upon alphas by society often INDUCES them to act in assholish ways.

Which is hilarious, because if you just replace “alphas” with “men,” you have a fair description of the basic feminist critique of how living in a patriarchal society affects men. Awesome.

Plymouth
Plymouth
9 years ago

The other day I was walking out from work to get lunch, totally lost in my thoughts and someone said “hi” to me. This pulled me out of my train of thought just in time to look around after she passed me and see the back of her head. I *thik* it was a co-worker of mine who I actually quite like. Fortunately she’s a normal well-adjusted person who isn’t going to conclude from this interaction that I regard her as “shit on my shoe”. It’s so nice knowing normal well-adjusted people.

Shaenon
9 years ago

Aw, man, I’m in Boston right now! Flew out for the annual meeting of the National Cartoonists’ Society. I’m actually tempted to try to meet up with MRAL, but he’s too damn rude.

But really, MRAL, you’re in Boston? Go out to museums and stuff. See the MFA and the Gardener. Visit the big science museum and the weird little MIT museum. Go to little cafes and bars and bookstores. Walk along those red brick streets with the shops, and Harvard Square, and Boston Common, and tour the historical sites. Listen to Jonathan Richman albums (this will help with so many things). There is no excuse for sitting in your dorm room feeling sorry for yourself if you are in Boston in the spring.

Louis the swan in E.B. White’s “The Trumpet of the Swan” was in Boston, and he was a swan who was fucking mute, which is a serious handicap when you’re a trumpeter swan and need to trumpet to attract a mate. Did he sit around being angry at all the lady swans and whining about being an omega cobb? No. He learned how to play the trumpet and got a boss job swimming in front of the swan boats in Boston Common, playing romantic music. That is how he became a superstar and also got laid. Figure your life out.

law1204
law1204
9 years ago

I personally would not recommend that MRAL “get out there” and try to make friends or find a partner until he gets years and years of therapy. His attitudes are way too dangerous.

Should he go out and socialize with others and find himself in a relationship with a woman, his overwhelming sense of entitlement and frustrated need to control would only render her another statistic needing help from a battered woman’s shelter. Can you imagine what he would do to her should he perceive, however incorrectly, that she had “slighted” him in some way? These thought patterns and wrong morals are not something that are just gotten rid of with a few social interactions or joining a few clubs.

It’s his lucky day though. The Emerge program is based in Cambridge.

Emerge: Counseling and Education to End Domestic Violence
2380 Massachusetts Ave, Suite 101
Cambridge MA 02140
(617) 547-9879
http://www.emergedv.com

Pandericthys
Pandericthys
9 years ago

A woman should be sexually totally open but solely in service of one man… and that man should be, you know, me.
Sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me.

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

Yeah, I’m not doing the Emerge thing, and I wouldn’t hit anyone.

Bostonian
Bostonian
9 years ago

MARL Yes you would, if you thought you could get away with it. the only thing holding you back is the thought of getting caught and dealing with jail.

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

Yes, that’s true. Your point?

Spearhafoc
9 years ago

So, beating women isn’t actually wrong, you’re just afraid of the legal consequences?

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

I’d say some people, mostly alphas, deserve a good solid beating, and that it would be morally justified. Most, but not all, of those people are women.

Bostonian
Bostonian
9 years ago

MARL @ 3:18 Just goes to show, the MRA movement is just the rapist and woman beater support group.