In light of some recent discussions here, I thought this cartoon seemed relevant. I got it from my new favorite Tumblr blog, Comically Vintage. It’s astounding how many of the comic panels posted there — especially those from melodramatic 60s-70s romance comics — apply to the arguments in and around the manosphere today. Perhaps because the world in which these guys live is as imaginary and out-of-date as the fantasy world of 40 or 50 year-old Romance comics.
And while we’re on the subject, here’s a bonus cartoon. Here, crawling from the primordial soup, is the world’s first PUA! (Granted, he hasn’t quite worked out all of the tenets of modern Game, but, hey, he’s still a lizard. Just as human evolution took millions of years, evolving something as complex as modern PUA theory takes time.)
Pecunium, that’s why I put “rude” in quotes (or tried to)–different standards of behavior are different standards of behavior. But a lot of people, the first time they have to interact with people from another cultural group, interpret them as being “rude” meaning “not behaving the way I was taught to behave.”
Lots of scholarship about this issue in regard to education because of different cultural mores about direct looks, who talks first in an interaction, what sort of pause is long enough in a conversation to invite new participation (shock shock, the pauses are shorter among certain groups in NYC than they are in other cultures–and not all people living in NYC either, etc), and how that affects education especially given how more teachers are from the dominant culture.
And yeah, MRAL’s leap from women in general to this incredibly small and self defined sub-group who should treat him well because, well, he is the center of the universe, and his surety he knows who/what they are–definitely a danger signal. I’m beginning to wonder if he doesn’t prefer thinking that everybody hates him and wants to spit on him rather than acknowledge the truth–that he’s not even a blip on the radar for most people (just like most of us aren’t even blips on radars for most of the people around us).
Yeah, local culture makes a big difference in what is considered polite passerby behaviour. I once did a gig in Charlottetown and was totally floored when I tried to jaywalk and the cars just stopped.
I too am sorry to know I’ve been spitting on MRAL-types for years. Mostly because I always have earphones in and can’t hear them, but that’s no excuse!
The violence really is the dealbreaker. If he was only lonely and bitter, I would seriously consider meeting this kid and trying to show him in person that people can be decent–but once that becomes a safety risk, I can’t consider it.
You can be the sexiest motherfucker on Earth, but if you say something that suggests you might physically hurt me if you get angry, you’re instantly whatever letter comes after omega.
I do hope that as MRAL goes out in the world more and gets more into extracurriculars and stuff, he’s really good at not just hiding that anger but actually letting go of it.
If anything, I feel even worse! I’m a guy, and who knows how many women I’ve spit on without even realizing it! I mean, at least MRAL expects to be spit on constantly, but these women are used to getting all the dick they want! And now here’s this guy walking down the street, spitting on every woman in site! I feel terrible…
I used to live in a really rural area, where the “car wave” was expected — you know, the wave over the steering wheel at the approaching car in the other lane. Despite that, I don’t know that even the people in town (though friendly) could have lived up to Mr. Al’s expectations for human interactions. Sometimes I’d see someone I knew very well, and say hello … and they wouldn’t say hello back! Or they would say hello, but they weren’t that enthusiastic about it. And that’s OK, because I understand that we all have our own lives and agendas, and sometimes people are late for work, or in a bad mood, or not paying attention, etc. Mr. Al really needs to get over this idea that he’s the star of the show and everything revolves around him.
Holly: What a cute piggy! I love piggies.
Motorcycling has a “wave” culture. It’s actually sort of funny, in New Hampshire I was feeling a little like MRAL, because none of the local riders seemed to ever, “drop a a hand.” They were all friendly enough when stopped, but on the road they never waved.
Things I enjoy doing: Photography, hiking, fencing, shooting, gardnening, cooking, teaching, motorcycling, rock-climbing, writing (blogging, commenting and specific purpose), horseback riding, camping, singing.
Itellectual interests: Philosophy, religion, politics, photography, cooking, biology, military history, political history, persnal histories, language.
I’ve done mouse and rat shows (when my ex and I were breeding snakes we were also breeding rats, mice, chickens and guinea pigs). They are a lot more fun than a description sounds, in part because of the people one gets to meet.
There are (though they tend to be on the down-low) a lot of snake keepers, who also breed rodents, and show them.
Whoa. So MRAL moved from a small town to BOSTON. That explain SO MUCH!! Former Bostonian here (well, I grew up in a suburb of Boston and then went to college across the river). I think I’m one of the only people I know who moved from the Boston area to the San Francisco area and DIDN’T notice an increase in general friendliness. I think I brought a little bubble of cold impersonal Bostonian attitude with me and it reaches its cold tendrils out and affects everyone I meet. Either that or I’m just oblivious! Actually, I favor the latter explanation 🙂
Agreed; the Boston thing really explains a lot. But MRAL never considered the possibility that people in Boston just act less like what other places consider to be friendly. He just assumes that everyone hates him.
With that baseline assumption, it’s going to be hard for him to ever enjoy anything.
Funny thing is, I think Boston is a relatively friendly place. But then again, I used to live in Seattle. People in Seattle are polite but not warm; people in Boston are warm but not polite. In Boston you get twice as many “fuck you”s and twice as many “we should hang out later”s. In particular, people in Boston seem more willing to strike up conversation with strangers–make a comment on some weird thing happening on the street, and often as not a total stranger will chime in and go “yeee-ah, that’s wicked weee-id.”
All this applies, however:
A) To the experiences of someone who feels secure in her social life, and so doesn’t have desperation or frustration weighing her down and projecting outward
B) To nonsexual situations, where I really was talking just to talk and had no thought of whether it was going to end up in bed–and it almost always didn’t.
Sorry, I’ve been lurking on this conversation and I’m probably way behind the game (though I now greatly desire to see a hamster show some day before I die). But I wanted to respond to MRAL’s definition of spitting behavior. You’d probably consider me one of those alpha bitches. But the reason I don’t always respond to strangers who say hi to me? It’s not because I wish to be rude. It’s because I’m shy, and I’m a survivor of abuse, and I don’t easily trust strangers.
So an honest question, MRAL, if you’re still reading these: has it occurred to you that just maybe, that woman who ignores you on the sidewalk is simply shy? Or has been hurt? Or is so accustomed to being objectified and harassed that she no longer feels comfortable interacting with strangers?
And I realize it’s quite a switch, moving from a small Maine town to Boston. My mother and her entire family are from Maine so I’ve spent some time there. My dad went to college in Boston too (New England Conservatory). It’s a difficult adjustment to make, but it will be even more difficult if you assign nefarious motives to every stranger you meet. We all have back stories.
David: Thank you for fixing my comment!
Posting to clarify that I’ve never commented on Schwyzer’s blog, so that has nothing to do with me.
I 2nd what Sarahjaye says (as a survivor of rape, domestic abuse and stalking myself 🙁 )… but it doesn’t even have to be that… They could be thinking about something, or on their way to be a meeting, they could be nervous or scared or angry or thinking about an issue, or thinking about who will win the hockey game.. or whatever… assuming you know what’s going on in a person’s mind if they don’t acknowledge you or talk to you is a bad game to play at, and is also bad for the ol’ self esteem 🙁 (and as Kirbywarp says, men go about their business ignoring WOMEN all the time too… ppl have LIVES)
A while back, MRAL said this:
Not all alphas act in a certain way, just most of them. In other words, being an asshole isn’t a REQUIREMENT, but the entitlement placed upon alphas by society often INDUCES them to act in assholish ways.
Which is hilarious, because if you just replace “alphas” with “men,” you have a fair description of the basic feminist critique of how living in a patriarchal society affects men. Awesome.
The other day I was walking out from work to get lunch, totally lost in my thoughts and someone said “hi” to me. This pulled me out of my train of thought just in time to look around after she passed me and see the back of her head. I *thik* it was a co-worker of mine who I actually quite like. Fortunately she’s a normal well-adjusted person who isn’t going to conclude from this interaction that I regard her as “shit on my shoe”. It’s so nice knowing normal well-adjusted people.
Aw, man, I’m in Boston right now! Flew out for the annual meeting of the National Cartoonists’ Society. I’m actually tempted to try to meet up with MRAL, but he’s too damn rude.
But really, MRAL, you’re in Boston? Go out to museums and stuff. See the MFA and the Gardener. Visit the big science museum and the weird little MIT museum. Go to little cafes and bars and bookstores. Walk along those red brick streets with the shops, and Harvard Square, and Boston Common, and tour the historical sites. Listen to Jonathan Richman albums (this will help with so many things). There is no excuse for sitting in your dorm room feeling sorry for yourself if you are in Boston in the spring.
Louis the swan in E.B. White’s “The Trumpet of the Swan” was in Boston, and he was a swan who was fucking mute, which is a serious handicap when you’re a trumpeter swan and need to trumpet to attract a mate. Did he sit around being angry at all the lady swans and whining about being an omega cobb? No. He learned how to play the trumpet and got a boss job swimming in front of the swan boats in Boston Common, playing romantic music. That is how he became a superstar and also got laid. Figure your life out.
I personally would not recommend that MRAL “get out there” and try to make friends or find a partner until he gets years and years of therapy. His attitudes are way too dangerous.
Should he go out and socialize with others and find himself in a relationship with a woman, his overwhelming sense of entitlement and frustrated need to control would only render her another statistic needing help from a battered woman’s shelter. Can you imagine what he would do to her should he perceive, however incorrectly, that she had “slighted” him in some way? These thought patterns and wrong morals are not something that are just gotten rid of with a few social interactions or joining a few clubs.
It’s his lucky day though. The Emerge program is based in Cambridge.
Emerge: Counseling and Education to End Domestic Violence
2380 Massachusetts Ave, Suite 101
Cambridge MA 02140
(617) 547-9879
http://www.emergedv.com
A woman should be sexually totally open but solely in service of one man… and that man should be, you know, me.
Sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me.
Yeah, I’m not doing the Emerge thing, and I wouldn’t hit anyone.
MARL Yes you would, if you thought you could get away with it. the only thing holding you back is the thought of getting caught and dealing with jail.
Yes, that’s true. Your point?
So, beating women isn’t actually wrong, you’re just afraid of the legal consequences?
I’d say some people, mostly alphas, deserve a good solid beating, and that it would be morally justified. Most, but not all, of those people are women.
MARL @ 3:18 Just goes to show, the MRA movement is just the rapist and woman beater support group.