Quite a few MRAs and MGTOWers seem to have have convinced themselves that women rarely if ever serve real time, or face any real consequences, for committing crimes. In the parlance of the manosphere, this is known as the “Pussy Pass.”
Now, this is, of course, almost complete bullshit. Why the “almost?” Because women do in fact receive somewhat lesser sentences when compared with men committing the same crimes. (So do white people, though you don’t hear the MRA crowd talking much about the “Honkey Pass.” )
Are the lighter sentences for women the result of evil feminist man haters? Not so much, Ampersand of Alas, A Blog argues in a thoughtful look at several studies on the subject. The author of one study concludes, as Ampersand summarizes it,
that this may be caused by sexist paternalism among judges; women are seen less as full adults, and as being less capable of being responsible for their own actions, and as a result judges depart from sentencing guidelines to give women lighter sentences.
Another study found that, contrary to what virtually every MRA or MGTOWer would assume, male judges were more likely than female judges to give especially harsh sentences to men. Let me repeat that: Male judges gave the harshest sentences to men. As the study’s author noted, “the greater the percentage of female judges on a district’s bench, the smaller the gender disparity.” (Emphasis mine.)
Just don’t try telling this to the MRA/MGTOW crowd. We saw the other day how the idea of the “pussy pass” – the notion that “the law does not serve justice” – has led some MRAs to advocate or voice their support for lynching female perps (with what degree of seriousness I don’t know).
Meanwhile, over on NiceGuy’s MGTOW forum, nigeles175d “humorously” suggests that the supposed existence of the “Pussy Pass” should also give guys the right to rape women who happen to give them boners:
[I]f we men cannot control our passions as women often claim, why don’t we get a Dickie PassTM like women get the Pussy PassTM? If women cannot control their tears, their screams, their giggles, and if women are driven to poisoning or murdering their sleeping husbands and use the excuse of years of abuse and being unable to control their mental state, why do we not consider a similar excuse for men. The way some women dress (hint, hint, SlutWalkers) to deliberately entice men to want sex with them, why is it not an exonerrating circumstance in the same way as it is for women? It seems women are never made to take responsibility for their actions, nor are they ever held accountable. Alternatively, if men are not allowed it, but women are, then we’re treating them like children and they don’t deserve the vote or positions of authority.
And of course it all goes back to women having the vote — the source of all evil in the modern world. Attitudes like this are, of course, what make the Slutwalks (and feminism in general) necessary in the first place.
Maybe he’s busy getting promoted again.
So your saying that rapists are normally adults? Firstly, it’s “you’re”. That’s a contraction, not a possessive. Secondly, yes. They are. There aren’t that many rapist children.
I’d like to go back to a point in the original post: You don’t hear the MRA crowd talking much about the “Honkey Pass.” Uh huh. Because like most self-absorbed people, MRA’s are just fine with double standards that benefit them. And it’s interesting that bigots usually have more than one kind of bigotry. There’s a big overlap between MRA’s, HBD types, Ron Paul-type libertarian cranks, etc. NWOslave is a perfect example, being a virtual walking conspiracy theory.
@MediumDave
First, awesome name.
Second, now I can’t stop picturing NWOslave as some sort of walking agglomeration of words and paragraphs and urls, all going “But that’s not what’s REALLY going on…” and then cornering your for a half hour to talk about how Andrea Dworkin and her black Muslim mangina’s blew up the twin towers in a controlled demolition to cause a backlash against Bush so Obama could be put into power, as Malcolm X had planned since the 60s.
You know, I’m still confused about how someone being an ugly wallflower invalidates their political opinions in any way.
ozymandias: Because MRAs don’t understand.
They think only stranger rape/violent rape counts.
They think rape is about sex.
They hear about non-stranger rape and they worry they will fuck up and get accused of rape (I remember this worry. Acquaintance rape was just surfacing when I was in college. There were lots of stories about men who were accused of rape much after the fact. I was terrified I was going to be too pushy in finding out if someone wanted to have sex and get accused of rape. They are certain this will happen to them. If I were more evil-minded I would say this is because they have a hard time finding eager, as opposed to merely accomodating partners).
Since they think feminists use the cry of rape to deal with unwanted attention (as opposed to unwanted sexual acts), they figure only, “pretty” women are in any position to be crying ‘rape’ in the way ‘feminists’ use it (because the ugly girls, and the ‘fat’ ones will be so desperate that any ‘nice’ guy will be worth it. See the writings of PUAs, talking about how a desperate guy can work on his “game” by playing, “fat chicks”, and then moving on to “real women”).
Therefore, any woman who is, “ugly” has nothing to worry about, which means them complaining about the possibility of being raped is actually sour grapes.
Pecunium – Actually, there’s a much simpler answer.
Because calling a woman “ugly” is supposed to hurt her feelings so much that she covers her face and runs away crying, thus sparing you from having to deal with anything she says.
It worked great in middle school.
Let me explain the “not all murders are the same” issue for those who are…er, behind the class, by using an example.
Person A is an 18 year old who has been beaten by their stepfather for years. A decided they have had enough, and buys a gun planning to kill the stepfather. A waits until the stepfather is sleeping and shoots him.
Person B is the stepparent of a five year old. B likes emotionally abuse the kid. One day, B decides to kill the kid, and buys a gun for that purpose. B waits until the kid is sleeping and shoot the kid.
These crimes actually have many of the same elements, the murder, the gun crime, the premeditation, etc. But should they have the same sentence? No, most people would not think that they should. And, this is a big part of the problem-that men and women do not actually tend to commit these crimes in similar ways. Some of these factors are things that may not be considered at first glance. For example, people who commit crimes against their intimates in general get less time than those who commit similar crimes against strangers (as weird as that may sound). It is well documented that women perpetrators are far less likely to have a stranger as a victim (for example, here http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cvus9503.pdf.There) are important factual differences in cases that vary according to sex that could account for far more of this discrepancy than people might think.
Also, as niggles (the commenter quoted in the OP) does not know the difference between “mitigating” and “exonerating” in a criminal context, I daresay he knows very, very little about the legal system to begin with.
One thing I’ll grant our regular trolls: they usually stick around to defend their comments, with (unintentionally) hilarious results. It’s a win-win situation, as we get free entertainment, and they get the attention they so obviously crave. No so with EWME. He just drops a couple of vile, mind-numbingly stupid remarks, then bolts at the first sign of resistance. He’s a fucking coward–and really unsatisfying as a troll.
Not that I want to give conspiracy theorists any ideas b/c who knows where conspiracy theorists will take anything… but maybe the reason they’re so paranoid that ppl think they’re rapists is b/c if you pu together:
1) being betas/omegas they will NEVER EVER have sex, much less have sex with a pretty girl
2) rape is about sex and men who can’t have any
3) all beta/omega men are going to be accused of rape at some point in their lives and thrown in jail without a trial
If this is ALL TRUTH and immutable societal/biological truth…
so are they all going around raping? (I think none of them ever has.. which is awesome btw 🙂 I suspect in general none of them have ever broken the law… and often it seems they are too afraid of human interaction in general since a lot of what they say shows they dun even TALK to other MEN much less women 🙁 So much of their reality seems like they constructed it from theory as if real life isn’t right outside the door 🙁 It’s amazing to me that ppl always “know” what rape is about and “know” that rape is uncontrollable while they themselves would never rape despite that they fit all of the criteria they just laid out xD Also amazing that ppl “know” what rape is about when they’re not survivors, or have worked w/ survivors, or know survivors, or volunteered at a shelter, etc : )
But by their logic, why NOT rape? The alternative is making your own self chosen prison in a basement somewhere writing angry screeds on the internet waiting until the sekrit feminist police accuse YOU of rape and drag you off to prison 🙁 If it’s gonna happen ANYWAYS, and they’re NEVER EVER going to have smex… then why would they not just do it? >_> (is it cuz rape would not be enjoyable for even THEM? cuz… well not about sex and all >_> and that’s ignoring even that most of the groups at highest risk for rape aren’t ANY groups that mainstream American society sees as attractive at all (elderly ppl, disabled ppl, mentally ill ppl, trans ppl, sex workers, children, etc etc) but they do have the thing in common of ppl being able to get away w/ it, and them being vulnerable 🙁 )
Rape isn’t a game neways 😐 Nor is it a theory, it’s actually out there. So we dun need to sit around pretending rape is not real and speculating on why, we can go out there and work w/ rape survivors, or shelters, or talk to them, or etc etc, instead of letting sensational news articles define our reality 🙂 There are men’s and youth shelters who could always use more volunteers 🙂 (if there’s a distrust of the state even tho a lot of these places aren’t state run, MRAs can always open their doors and couches to fellow MRAs who are fleeing abuse or DV or are rape survivors… or go w/ them to the police or court.. 🙂 but helping ppl is help 🙂 maybe they do do that alrdy and that is awesome 🙂 )
I think Holly is right, it is very much like that 🙁 I’m waiting for them to go Circle Circle Dot Dot xD
That could be like a feminist ward :O
like a magic card! 😀
Hrm…
What’s a manly colour… red? isn’t that close to pink? But blue is so… counter spell and stuff.. that’s not manly… green is pretty manly.. big and strong animals! But women like animals… : White… Black… if feminism is evil then we’re black but white is also a very “feminine” colour what w/ the healing and they LITERALLY HAVE White Knights! (congrats you guys on this board! you’re 2/2 first strikers w/ pro black xD)
Hrm… I’ll choose red…
Feminist Ward 1R
Enchant Creature
All damage dealt to enchanted creature from feminist sources is reduced to 0.
“Circle circle dot dot… You’re fat and I’m not!”
xD
I should make a WHOLE SET of
evilethically devoid feminist and MRA cards… xD MTG: GENDAR WARZZZZZZFeminist War Machine 6
Artifact Creature
Trample
Feminist War Machine has power and toughness equal to the number of feminists in play.
*/*
If we’re gonna be childish we might as well be awesomely fun childish right? 😀
Hmmm what else…
Pussy Pass 3W
Enchantment
As long as Pussy Pass is in play, any feminists in play that are sent to the graveyard are returned into play at end of turn.
😀 (c’mon any ideas? 😀 mras are welcome too! :D)
Hrm on 2nd thought that should be a black card.. first feminists are evil… and secondly it’s bringing things back from the graveyard xD
@Ami
Sure, I’ll play along (so to speak), but be aware that the collectable card game realm of geekery sort of passed me by, so my knowledge is rudimentary.
I think there should be a Sperm Stealer attack card that allows a player to collect “child support” from another player by taking one or more of their cards.
There should be an attack card that allows you to demote another player from “alpha” to “beta”, or from “beta” to “omega”, with consequent loss of various abilities. (BTW, all players begin the game at “omega” status, and try to work their way up to “alpha-alpha” status.)
@Johnny This could be a whole new game! with it’s own mechanics! 😀 xD
But hmm… given what I keep hearing about Alpha Males they sound like the new Eldrazi things xD
Like ridic powered creatures that come out on billion mana xD
Bad Boy 10
Creature – Alpha Male
Trample, Annihilator: 2, Bad Boy cannot be blocked by Feminists
10/10
Rich CEO 11
Creature – Alpha Male
Indestructable, Trample, Rampage: 2
When Rich CEO comes into play put 2 5/5 Trophy Feminist Wife tokens into play with flying and trample
12/12
It’s like an expansion set! MRA: The Gathering : Rise of the Alpha Males! 😀
xD
Football Jock can be like a Dragon Whelp type card… xD
The poor person’s beater creature! xD
HS Football Jock 5
Creature – Alpha Male
1: HS Football Jock gains Trample
2: HS Football Jock gains +1/+1 until end of turn
3/3
Andrea Dworkin 5BBBBBBB
Creature – Legendary Feminist
Trample, Indestructable, Deathtouch
Each turn sacrifice a permanent to Andrea Dworkin or you lose the game
15/15
She is voracious and unstoppable! xD
I would totally play Ami’s game. 😉
And naturally, one of the cards should be … Brad Pitt. “Weakens feminist defenses.” Or something like that.
(Because while I don’t find Brad Pitt unattractive, I do keep hearing how we all want to fuck him … and I don’t.)
DSC, so to what degree are the things you’re talking about dealt with in the sentencing guidelines? Would they be included in the “offense level” or are they separate, and thus not controlled for in the study in question here?
OMG xD Originally Bad Boy was supposed to be Brad Pitt cuz he’s like the only Alpha Male(tm) that actually has a name xD
Essence of Brad Pitt 3GG
Instant
Search your deck for a Feminist creature card of total casting cost 5 or less and put it into play. Shuffle your deck.
xD
OH MY GOD AMI, I am so tired of hearing my friends drone on and on about how they are going to turn not-MtG things into MtG cards. If I hear one more discussion of how much mana something that is never going to actually become a card should cost my head will explode!
But don’t mind me, I’m just a curmudgeon, and burned out on MtG. =p
It’s really a cute idea!
🙁 I’m sry….
This just amuses me :] I dun think too much about it, like mana cost xD But I understand the overloady things 🙁
There’s nothing wrong with curmudgeoness tho! 🙂 I’m still griping about interleague play! xD And the evolution of land based animals! >:O Back in my day…
Back in your day there were no land based animals? =p
I don’t deal in extremes at either end and so I struggle immensely with what feminism has appeared to have become and while I struggle with some of the sentiments expressed by select mras, I understand their aggressive pull in the opposite direction of feminist ideology in hopes that we may actually arrive at a truly egalitarian healthy medium. For anyone to assert that men don’t catch a raw deal on a number of issues they must just be towing the line for their respective group because as a woman of color with sons uncles a father nephews the reality is that I have personal experience with the negative impact of feminist influenced policy on men particularly black and hispanic men. I have been a liberal democratic supporter since conception but am amazed at how disconnected so many white liberals truly are from the experiences of people outside their circles. The black and brown community has experienced a rapid deterioration of the family in our communities and we know that as much as conservatives have contributed to it so have “good intentioned” liberal feminist as well. Sure there are folks in our community that continue to blindly support you all but there are a growing number of black men and women that are exhausted with your ideology as well. We are tired of the dichotomy where women in our community are empowered and celebrated encouraged towards independence and liberation while also being encouraged towards lack of pers0onal accountabilty and victimhood. (we are extremely disturbed by the stats of 7 of 10 of our children being born out of wedlock and how the “blame” has been assigned to black men and their sexual irresponsibility and the characterizations of black men as deadbeats- without a mention of how with this “choice” middle class white women fought for comes greater responsibilities of which we have absolved the women in our community of) And what has it cost us? Ill tell you this…. a lot more than your community. The fact is that poor white men black men and brown men are disproportionately imprisoned and as a trauma therapist in an adult prison elam is correct regarding the overlooked issue of male rape. This supposed partriarchy continues to opress western women? Too simple. The truth is that the top ten percent of wealthy powerful men AND women have oppressed the average white man black woman asian american children as much as anyone else. Im so tired of this shit. Forgive me if this post is a bit tangential but one can only hope that a productive conversation will occur that ACTUALLY moves us towards tru equality for all. Many of your commenters dismissal of these guys actually has led me to read some of their literature. And while there are some things that I dont agree with, I have found much of their writings to be well written pieces that I have introduced along with select feminist writings to my class of therapy practicum students. These students, the majority of which are young women have received these (mra) writings well and as such has led to healthy solution focused debates. I would be careful to dismiss them as an opressive angry white mens movement. While many students struggled with style and tone at times, the generakl sentiment of my students is that we should not dismiss what appears to be legitimate concerns of these men. And once again as a woman of color that has personal experiences with the anger and the hopelessness of men who remain silent for fearof being labeled a misogynist should they speak about their experiences, I dont subcribe to the notion like many that this is a movement of bitter angry old white men. Trust me.
😀 When I can look past their unadulterated evil for a moment, the sheer stupidity of MRAs makes me laugh. I’m still waiting for another one to show up and link to that same study again.
And to be honest, as my students have begun to dissect some of the moderate writings of the MRA crowd, we have found many of your commenters postings to be intellectually dishonest. The spin on both sides can be disturbing at times. But per our own research we have found their writings to be very different than what has been suggested by some on your site. In fact, our book club has decided to read the recent release of I believe Tim Goldich. So far it has been a refreshing distraction from gender politics that leave true moderates exhausted. Seriously, it is a good read thus far.
Chavonne, ever hear of paragraphs? Just use the enter key and it will separate out your comments to make it easier to read.
Chavonne, could you possibly link to these moderate MRA writings that you use with your students? I’m really curious to see them.