Some highlights, by which I mean lowlights, of a recent discussion on The Spearhead of IMF head Dominique Strauss-Kahn’s arrest on sexual assault charges. The Spearheaders, naturally, have some unique and interesting perspectives on the case:
Black women (like the accuser) are all a bunch of liars. Run away!
Reality May 18, 2011 at 11:04
I knew it was going to be a black woman- I suspected from the second I heard about this. Crystal Magnum anyone? Don’t want to make this a racial issue- but how can you avoid it? You take 5 ounces of Female/Feminist hate and deception, add 8 ounces of the stereotypical black thing of always sniffing around for a lawsuit, stir .. and you have more than enough reason to avoid black women even more vigorously than women in general.
The case is somehow all about how badly “beta” men are discriminated against by evil women:
Commander Shepard May 18, 2011 at 11:53
Typically false rape allegations are made when a woman realizes she’s slept with a beta but doesn’t want her rep taking a hit and wants to avoid feeling like crap (betas are icky) my gut tells me either this is a totally fabricated set up (politically motivated) or Strauss-Kahn is getting a lesson in how betas have to apologize everyday for their existence.
She’s accusing him because she’s got AIDS and therefore (?) wants to make a quick buck, ethics be damned:
Avenger May 18, 2011 at 18:55 …
Since she has AIDS she knows that an infection could take her out at any time and she has a teenage daughter. A person like this will certainly not think like a normal person and may very well do something for a lump sum of cash since she has nothing to lose and may have some resentment towards men and doesn’t care what happens to this one guy. She also may be thinking that if she dies at least her daughter will have the money. This is not someone I would trust. …
I predict that Strauss will be released on bail tomorrow. He’ll pay the female’s lawyer some money and then the whole thing will just fade away.
He’s probably innocent, but he’s a white-hating Commie Jew bastard, so ha ha:
goldenfetus May 18, 2011 at 09:57
Libertarian here. I doubt this guy is guilty. Seems unlikely, yet possible. But as observed, this guy is a White-hating elite Marxist Jew. So while I agree that political disagreement is not sufficient grounds for wishing false-rape accusation/conviction on him, I submit that his hostility toward my people coupled with his general evil is enough to justify the enjoyment of his suffering. We can’t forget that his politics are what makes this possible in the first place, or ignore the ‘reap what you sow’ component here.
As a white guy, I’d like to say that goldenfetus does not in fact speak for “my people.”
And before anyone steps in to complain that I’ve picked the “outliers” in the discussions, the fanatics whose opinions aren’t shared by the MRA masses, I will note that (as is generally the case with Spearhead comments I quote) all of the comments here have gotten numerous upvotes from Spearhead readers, and only a handful of downvotes, if any. In other words, they represent something close to the Spearhead conventional wisdom. (And by “wisdom” here I mean “offensive idiocy.”)
Sally Strange
You are correct about elements of the christian right that would use a gay pedophile to stereotype all gay men thats an extreme minority with no power – its the same game that feminism has been playing against heterosexual males, using rape and abuse by a minority to stereotype men, masculinity and society, but feminism has power and is pushing for a situation where all a woman has to do is point her finger, its already the case with DV.
And women are the most protected abusers, not white males.
Someone was asking about the article in a voice for men I mentioned, a regular here was doc dropped for making false allegations of rape.
http://www.avoiceformen.com/2011/05/13/the-lighthouse-a-beacon-of-lies/
Hey Dave. What gives with the “remodification” of my posts. Whilst I was in Rochester working for the past few days I posted one or two posts early in the morning and late a night, and wasn’t on moderation. I guess since I used my laptop is those cases I’ve either been “remodified” or my home desktop IP is still on moderation.
So either let me know why I’ve been put on moderation or take this IP off moderation. Because after the few comments I left ya sure didn’t mention anything about me having “breached” and rules.
Sally Strange
“Somehow he has managed to retain the belief that not all rape accusations are false. Amazing, isn’t it?”
This is yet another lie about rape by a feminist on tis board. Noone is saying that because there is a culture of false allegations and lies about rape and because feminism and feminists lie about rape, that all rape accusations are false.
Victims are deemed worthy or unworthy, accepted or turned away on the basis of gender. Abusers of one gender are protected, and abusers of another are used to stereotype the whole gender, politicize and make money, and stereotype society itself.
Even if that’s true, it’s not a creation of feminism. Who are these feminists who think female abusers should be let off the hook? I don’t know any. Who are these feminists who deny that men can be victims of domestic violence? I don’t know any.
And that study? Interesting, but not terribly illuminating without a study that made the same inquiries of women and compared their rates of unwanted contact and their reported psychological impact. Please note that “kissing/petting” are included as “unwanted sexual behaviors.” Fair enough, but I’d like to see how many women report being the recipients of similar behaviors on the part of men. Unfortunately, the article costs $34.00 to download in its entirety, so I can’t look at the data more closely.
For what its worth I think male sexual victimization by women has been under-scrutinized, and that it’s higher than most people imagine it to be. Still, context, power relationships, and psychological impact matter as well when assessing the overall problem.
Wow, E, that Paul Elam article doesn’t really show him in a positive light, does it? He comes off like a bit of a thug…and I’m using deliberate understatement again.
Publishing the name and identifying information of a commenter on a blog is very, very different from calling out a public figure about something he writes on his own blog. Christine’s implication that Elam knows about rape from personal experience was over the line, but his response was way out of proportion, as he is as good as inviting his minions to call her up and harass her at work.
Eoghan, is this supposed to support your arguments in some way? Because all I got out of it was that Elam is a fucking creep who is not above attempting to intimidate someone into silence.
“Moderate voice of the MRM” indeed.
Captain Bathrobe
Well the regular thats making the false allegations about rape comes off as the thug, and Elam looks like some one responding in kind.
Societal illusions and the acceptance of false allegations of rape here would hide the fact that the regular here, is the villain in the story.
It was in fact the regular here was the one attempting to intimidate into silence with the false allegations of rape.
“Even if that’s true, it’s not a creation of feminism. Who are these feminists who think female abusers should be let off the hook? I don’t know any. Who are these feminists who deny that men can be victims of domestic violence? I don’t know any”.
Feminism falsifies data and research that hides female abuse, feminists are given the false information about abuse being mainly gendered and they believe it and repeat it, thats how the feminist abuse culture works.
First, the study. A sample size of 400 is small, espeically compared to US department of justice statistics. However, using those same type of studies, survey based self-reporting, the number for women comes out very, very high. At least 25, some have even gone to 40%. Mostly those statistics are not used, because the methodology is not well backed up. Using larger sample sizes and better methodology leads to smaller numbers. But again, since you think (and have yet to back up with evidence) that feminism is bad and wrong, your study is fine while the feminist study showing higher is bad.
‘You mentioned “rape culture”, which is a political construct and fear mongering tool – feminism and feminists are the most active abuse and rape culture in our society.’ But again, claiming that we’re a huge conspiracy promoting false rape allegations is perfectly fine. Especially if you don’t back that claim with viable sources.
“Victims are deemed worthy or unworthy, accepted or turned away on the basis of gender. Abusers of one gender are protected, and abusers of another are used to stereotype the whole gender, politicize and make money, and stereotype society itself.” And yet, right on that spearhead article, the woman is being lambasted for being a woman, yet that is somehow different. Again, not zero sum. A feminist helping a woman is not attacking men. Attacking women is, well, attacking women.
“Abuse itself is stereotyped as gendered. Thats the active abuse culture in our society, feminism. Feminists supporting a false accuser that went on to child abuse and murder without feeling any sort of need to apologize – thats what an abuse culture looks like.” Show me where that happened.
“Calls against the feminist abuse culture are justified, as abuse victim shouldn’t be brushed under the carpet and abusers shouldn’t be protected because they aren’t politically useful.” Sentence doesn’t parse, but I think you’re saying “femiminism doesn’t help everyone, so it’s wrong!” Sorry, not zero sum. Why aren’t you in haiti helping poor children who are dying? Because you choose where to direct your efforts.
Rest is mostly blah blah attacks on feminism with no credible sources, i feel no need to respond.
“If its a feminist source, its likely a false allegation about rape. There is a study that shoes that 4 men out of 100 will use some form of coercion that I cant lay my hand on right now.” See, right the fuck there. “It’s feminist, therefore it’s wrong”. No. period. Show me evidence, as I have shown you. I would like to see that study, really. Because AS I SAID, that is the highest estimate I have found. HIGHEST. That means others are lower! Words, they have meanings!
“The feminist movement relies heavily on false accusations and lies about rape.” Blahdy blah, baseless accusations with no evidence blah.
And for your second paper, lets actually read it!
“For example, when forced touching of sexual parts was in-
cluded as part of the definition, approximately 25–33% of
college women reported experiencing such behaviors”
“Specifically, by both men’s and women’s reports, the rates of verbal sexual coercion against men by women are consistently estimated to be between 10 and 20% (e.g., Aizenman & Kelley, 1988; Anderson, 1998; Baier et al., 1991; Burke et al., 1988; Fiebert & Tucci, 1998; Krah´e et al., 2003; Lottes, 1991; Stets & Pirog-Good, 1989; Struckman-Johnson, 1988; Struckman-Johnson & Struckman-Johnson, 1994), whereas physically forced sexual intercourse by women against men is estimated to be between 1 and 3%”
Well, lets see, we have a 25-33% of women, a rate much higher then the one usually used by feminists (1 in 6), and a lower rate for men, only 10-20%. So, what were you trying to say? because no one here ever said men can not be victimized.
No, Elam is the thug for forcibly showing off information on the regular who had given no permission to use it. Elam, on the other hand, has given out said information publically already. Saying ‘i did it, so I’m going to do it to you’ is no damned defense. If i punch myself in the shoulder, am I somehow allowed to punch you? If i were to put my adress up here, does that give me the right to track down your information, if I can, and post it here? Because you’ve been heavily insulting to me, and personally claimed I am implicitly involved in false rape allegations, seeing as I’m a feminist.
Feminism falsifies data and research that hides female abuse, feminists are given the false information about abuse being mainly gendered and they believe it and repeat it, thats how the feminist abuse culture works.
And your evidence for this is…? How have feminists falsified data or hidden evidence? Disagreement is not the same as falsification.
Also, Elam’s actions were far more thuggish than Christine’s. Her remarks weren’t intended to get Elam fired nor were they intended to foment a campaign of harassment or intimidation. Also, she’s not a public figure and he most definitely is. An appropriate response from Elam would have been to visit this blog and challenge her to provide proof or be called a liar. Calling her out by her screen name on his own blog would also have been acceptable. But posting her picture, real name, and work phone number with an incitement to harass her at her place of work dwarfs anything Christine said or did. He’s not “responding in kind,” he’s responding to a water pistol with a bazooka.
g-d html fail…
NWOslave: If a woman has been drinking any amount and she makes a concious choice and consents to sex she can later claim he raped her.
Why you always lying, Slavey? This has been refuted again and again here. Read your state’s statutes. Read any state’s statutes and tell me where it says that a woman cannot consent if she has had one drink. (Hint: That is not law in any state.) There is a grain of truth to what you say, though. A woman could indeed walk into a police station and say, “I was raped. I had one drink, and I consented to sex, and now I’ve changed my mind and decided to revoke my consent. Please lock him up.” She can make that claim, sure — she would just not be taken seriously under that fact pattern.
This is one instance of the MRM doing harm to its followers. They have lied to you, and you believe it, despite the utter lack of real-world evidence to back up their lie. Unbelievable.
Captain Bathrobe: YES. Thank you. I’ve been creeped out by that post since I read it. I don’t want to go back to read it again, because it’s actually disturbing; but I’m happy to see that it struck you in exactly the same way that it struck me.
Nobby
If you are providing feminist sources, they are not credible, feminism is in the business of making false allegations about rape and abuse.
The second study I gave you is the “nd most comprehensive study to date to investigate these issues, in that there were data on sexual coercion and revictimization on both men and women from 38 sites around the world”
You can see a break down of it here..
http://feck-blog.blogspot.com/2011/05/predictors-of-sexual-coercion-against.html
As for Elams response to the false rape accuser. I think that its warranted, men have to start responding to the false rape accusation culture and calling feminists out on their false allegations about rape and abuse. Even if your main concern is women, its in the best interests of women to call out feminists that throw false accusations of rape and abuse around like confetti, how much damage have the feminists on this thread alone done to the credibility of rape victims with the repetitive lies about rape? Think about it.
Captain Bathrobe
You condone false accusations of rape because you are in a culture (feminism) that encourages it, not everyone sees a false allegation of rape as a water pistol, especially not those that have been killed, tortured, raped, burned at the stake, lost everything or killed themselves because of a false allegation of rape.
I read the damn study, lol, and I picked out a part of it that is directly counter to your claims. I never made any allegation that it was a bad study. Answer me based on what I said.
I refuse to debate any further. Take that as you will, but you have provided a total of four links. One is a feminist who i even disagreed with, but still a feminist so everything there much be lies anyway. One link is to Elam’s rediculous attack on a woman and purporting physical violence should be done. And two are research, one of which helps my case, and one we can’t readm goes counter to the second, more hig-profile paper, and has challenges in methodology.
I cannot debate with someone who says everything but what they believe is lies. It cannot be done, and I am tired of shouting at a wall. If you decide to change and actually respond to what I said and what i linked in a rational manner, i will do the same. but until then I have no interest in talking to someone who claims my very existence is a lie.
Lol: As for Elams response to the false rape accuser. I think that its warranted, men have to start responding to the false rape accusation culture and calling feminists out on their false allegations about rape and abuse.
Was what the Manboobz commenter said an accusation/allegation, or was it an insinuation/implication? I would say it’s the latter, meriting a different approach than one might take with an actual accusation. I would also say that “calling out” =/ real-life harassment.
how much damage have the feminists on this thread alone done to the credibility of rape victims with the repetitive lies about rape?
None? What are you talking about? Where are these credibility-damaging repetitive lies?
Well the regular thats making the false allegations about rape comes off as the thug, and Elam looks like some one responding in kind.
I don’t see the statement the poster made as a “false allegation/accusation”. It’s just an opinion that the poster wouldn’t be surprised “if”. It doesn’t even meet the definition of defamation. Obviously, the poster did not state as a “fact” that he was a rapist. There are several MRA’s I wouldn’t be surprised if they were abusers or rapists based on certain things they have written. I’d bet there are multitudes of people who have low opinions of several MRA’s, including Elam. And you know, we’re all entitled to our opinions, our right to free speech, and all that. He doesn’t hold back on his low opinions of people. He has the right to express them – and so does everyone else.
lol: You pointed to the top post as an refutation of, “The MRA’s are already accusing the alleged victim in the DSK case of being a liar”.
You said that post shows, The Spearhead is saying that the woman is likely telling the truth, which is true… for the single guy who wrote it. The comments there, however, support the contention that MRAs are accusing the accuser of being a liar.
Note also that the person you are saying is wrong, is using the words, “alleged victim.” Kendra is giving the accused the benefit of the doubt, in direct contradiction of your accusation of “all the lies” in this one thread.
As to lies. Your link to “A man is a rape supporter if” is a lie. Thats not an allegation of rape. It’s an accusation of supporting rapists. That’s a lot different.
BUt you want to have it all ways. The Spearhead is representative of the MRA movement, but most MRA suporters won’t have anything to do with the comments there, and would rather it wasn’t there.
Nonsense. If they really felt that way they would do what happens here. They’d read the posts and make comments. If they disliked a comment they’d downvote it, thus making it clear that the MRA community doesn’t agree with that sort of thing and thus discouraging it.
But they don’t.
Because they don’t. This is like anit… show me the MRA sites that aren’t festering swamps in the comments sections. If you can’t, explain to me how I am supposed to know that 1: “its still a minority and the bulk of mras would rather that commentary wasn’t there in the first place and 2: how you can support that while contending that rapes aren’t underreported the same way that MRA types who aren’t the misogynist asshats in the comments at MRA blogs are the minority (that it, “underreported).
Nobby, I’m not claiming “that your very existence is a lie”.
If you have been lead to believe that your existence is defined by a left wing political construct that constructs and uses misinformation about rape and abuse as a platform to fear monger and rabble rouse, the problem is with the construct, not you or me.
Pecunium
If you only read the selected comments from the spearhead and mgtow, thats all you will see. I take it you know what Plato’s cave
Whats more, men that have been abused by women, in a culture that excludes and mocks them and have been caught up in a legal system that apparently aids and abets their abusers, have every right to be angry.
Captain Bathrobe
You condone false accusations of rape because you are in a culture (feminism) that encourages it, not everyone sees a false allegation of rape as a water pistol, especially not those that have been killed, tortured, raped, burned at the stake, lost everything or killed themselves because of a false allegation of rape.
See, now I think you’re just being willfully obtuse. Either that, or you’re the world’s biggest drama queen–or, if you like, drama king.
lol: Ah… the “culture = poltical construct” argument.
When we all know that ‘misandrist culture” is a political construct of the male supremacist movement, meant to convince men who have no actual idea of what the culture they grew up in actually requires to maintain itself and can be convinced an increase in equality is actually a foul supression of, “men’s natural rights”, brought about by the radical, and evil-minded, feminists who want to emasculate all boys; so the false idea that women are just as intelligent and capable as men can be eradicated and everyone will be happy again, just like they were before women got the vote, and the pill, and the right to have a bank account, and live without a man to clean up and put out for whenever he was in the mood.
A couple of things:
I’m aware of that Elam post, and don’t want it discussed here.
NWO, I’ve taken that IP off the moderation list.
Eoghan, I’m now about 200% convinced you and Lol are one and the same. Making the same arguments, using the same language, with the same writing style (lots of run-on sentences), etc etc. If it walks like a Eoghan, and quacks like a Eoghan …
Lol:
Eoghan:
If you’re not Eoghan, you clearly studied under him.
So, Lol/Eoghan, I’d prefer it if you simply acknowledged that you are one and the same. Now that I can moderate comments properly, I will actually allow you to post here, though if you start routinely misrepresenting other people and being disruptive you will go on moderation.
Speaking of Elam, in a post titled “No Means No. Sure, Whatever.” he’s defending young men in a Yale fraternity who were banned from recruiting or activities on campus for five years for chanting “No means yes, yes means anal,” and,” “My name is Jack, I’m a necrophiliac[sic], I f*ck dead women.”.
Whacked.
Pecunium
“so the false idea that women are just as intelligent and capable as men”.
You need to learn what the mens movement is, the mens movement position is that women should be treated like and held to the same standards as men, and that we should embrace equality as in equal opportunity and equality under the law, thats why its at odds with feminism which preaches a modified form of chivalry.
@Bee…Under Penal Code 261 one of the provisions for determining rape is “too intoxicated to consent to the activity,”
You said there was no law. You either lied or were in error. The “law” says “too intoxicated” and not “incapacitated.” What constitutes too intoxicated? If a woman the next day “feels” she was “too intoxicated” to legally consent reguardless of the amount she drank than a “rape” must have occured, since there is no specific blood alchohol content specified as “too intoxicated.”
Well, theres your “law.” I’m not saying the vast majority of women would ever do this. However if a mere 1/10th of one percent of women use this law a year in this country thats 160 thousand a year. So over a 40 year period that 6.4 million men who have been or have had an attempted incarceration levied against them. This means there will always be a minimum of at least 4% of the population of men who have had this done to them. And this is just one law.
Now I highly doubt MRAs were beating down the white house door to enact this law. So who was it? The State will of course be more than happy to gain all that power.