Some highlights, by which I mean lowlights, of a recent discussion on The Spearhead of IMF head Dominique Strauss-Kahn’s arrest on sexual assault charges. The Spearheaders, naturally, have some unique and interesting perspectives on the case:
Black women (like the accuser) are all a bunch of liars. Run away!
Reality May 18, 2011 at 11:04
I knew it was going to be a black woman- I suspected from the second I heard about this. Crystal Magnum anyone? Don’t want to make this a racial issue- but how can you avoid it? You take 5 ounces of Female/Feminist hate and deception, add 8 ounces of the stereotypical black thing of always sniffing around for a lawsuit, stir .. and you have more than enough reason to avoid black women even more vigorously than women in general.
The case is somehow all about how badly “beta” men are discriminated against by evil women:
Commander Shepard May 18, 2011 at 11:53
Typically false rape allegations are made when a woman realizes she’s slept with a beta but doesn’t want her rep taking a hit and wants to avoid feeling like crap (betas are icky) my gut tells me either this is a totally fabricated set up (politically motivated) or Strauss-Kahn is getting a lesson in how betas have to apologize everyday for their existence.
She’s accusing him because she’s got AIDS and therefore (?) wants to make a quick buck, ethics be damned:
Avenger May 18, 2011 at 18:55 …
Since she has AIDS she knows that an infection could take her out at any time and she has a teenage daughter. A person like this will certainly not think like a normal person and may very well do something for a lump sum of cash since she has nothing to lose and may have some resentment towards men and doesn’t care what happens to this one guy. She also may be thinking that if she dies at least her daughter will have the money. This is not someone I would trust. …
I predict that Strauss will be released on bail tomorrow. He’ll pay the female’s lawyer some money and then the whole thing will just fade away.
He’s probably innocent, but he’s a white-hating Commie Jew bastard, so ha ha:
goldenfetus May 18, 2011 at 09:57
Libertarian here. I doubt this guy is guilty. Seems unlikely, yet possible. But as observed, this guy is a White-hating elite Marxist Jew. So while I agree that political disagreement is not sufficient grounds for wishing false-rape accusation/conviction on him, I submit that his hostility toward my people coupled with his general evil is enough to justify the enjoyment of his suffering. We can’t forget that his politics are what makes this possible in the first place, or ignore the ‘reap what you sow’ component here.
As a white guy, I’d like to say that goldenfetus does not in fact speak for “my people.”
And before anyone steps in to complain that I’ve picked the “outliers” in the discussions, the fanatics whose opinions aren’t shared by the MRA masses, I will note that (as is generally the case with Spearhead comments I quote) all of the comments here have gotten numerous upvotes from Spearhead readers, and only a handful of downvotes, if any. In other words, they represent something close to the Spearhead conventional wisdom. (And by “wisdom” here I mean “offensive idiocy.”)
Also, a statement about patriarchy from a larger feminist site, Shakesville:
“Though all of us, sans rigorous philosophical exertion, are hapless conduits for every limiting and oppressive archetype upon which the patriarchy depends, conveying the bars of our own cages, very few of us are its unconstrained beneficiaries. Even the average straight, white, middle class American man exchanges privilege for severe limitations on his personal expression and emotional life—and he is encouraged never to examine that devastating trade-off too closely, lest the veneer on the alleged bargain prove thin enough through which to see. We all serve the same callous master, and there’s little to celebrate in being the favored slave—especially compared to a life of freedom.”
Emphasis mine.
For what it’s worth, I think Eve’s list is a bit over-the-top. For example, the idea that talking about the kind of woman you find attractive necessarily makes you a supporter of rape is just stupid, and I don’t know very many feminists who would agree with that characterization. The issue of pornography is contentious, to be sure, but I don’t know many feminists who would go so far as to say watching pornography in which women are depicted makes someone a rape supporter. The issue I’ve heard discussed lately is the treatment of actors and actresses in the porn industry, but that would be more like accusing someone of supporting sweatshops.
Still, there’s a significant difference between calling out certain behaviors as supportive of rape and accusing specific individuals of actually committing specific acts of rape. It’s akin to the difference between calling someone an anti-Semite and accusing them of having been a guard at Treblinka.
For clarity, i dislike the idea of “all of us support patriarch always”, it’s a wierd phrasing. But the point i wanted to make there is that this much larger feminist site isn’t saying ‘All men are to blame’. It’s saying quite clearly that all people in a patriarchy, women and trans* included, uphold it and have a duty to work against it. It is not, despite your allegations, anit-man.
wow. should be ‘patriarchy always’, ‘weird’, and ‘anti-man’ [size=”1″](we’ve already had an anit-man around, that was different)[/size]
dang, size tags don’t work! Imagine that bit being very small.
… because i used brackets by accident. To make this last bit not just me randomly triple posting, please, david, let us preview! If you can.
“And yet women who are raped aren’t allowed to speak out?”
And yet another lie about rape from a feminist.
As you know, the MM are anti false allegations, removing the presumption of innocence and the crimes of a minority being used to stereotype and create hatred for political gain as well as advocating for male victims.
Eoghan, I think there’s definitely a debate to be had over how helpful or accurate it is to accuse someone of being a rape apologist. Your mischaracterization of what most feminists are actually saying is not terribly helpful either, however.
“And yet women who are raped aren’t allowed to speak out?”
And yet another lie about rape from a feminist.
I can’t find the source of the original quote, but it really sounds like a rhetorical to me.
Captain Bathrobe
“eves list is a bit over the top”
It depends on where you are standing, if you are alright with false allegations and lies about rape as long as they don’t involve going to the police station, it might seem ok or a bit over the top.
If you arent ok with false allegations about rape and abuse full stop, its a Eves list is a mass false allegation about rape.
Captian Bathrobe
Im not mischaracterising what feminists are saying.
Lies about and false allegations about rape and abuse are so ingrained in feminist rhetoric and activism, many feminists don’t realize the seriousness of what they have been conditioned to do or that there is anything wrong, unusual or sinister about it.
A bit over the top /= OK. C.f., deliberate use of understatement.
Okay, I am a god damned feminist, and I was saying that rhetorically. See the question mark?
Also, saying what you just did, and yet claiming that rape culture is completely false and sinister? Double standard, double standard, everyone do the double standard!
All right, E, you’re certainly entitled to your own opinion, but saying it doesn’t make it so. Calling out certain actions and attitudes as supportive of rape culture–like most feminists I read–just isn’t the same thing as making a mass false accusation of rape. Your insistence that it is qualifies as the same sort of blanket accusation that you purport to condemn.
It would be much more helpful to state why you believe particular behaviors and attitudes are not supportive of rape culture. Then, we could have real argument instead of simple contradiction.
“Its likely more a case of the more lies about rape and rape propaganda misinformation campaigns you are subjected to the more jaded you become.”
Could be that. Or could be I know more about rape than I would ever like to in an ideal world, and you’re an ignorant asshole. Come on, tell me I lied about being raped. No one believed me then, either. Lucky for you that rape accusations barely ever result in a conviction, so I guess my propaganda failed! LOL.
If I was the female equivalent of an MRA I’d have condemned all men, declared them all ‘sinister’ rapists and so on, but luckily I find the idea of considering half the population ‘sinister’ and likely to rape me pretty ridiculous.
Also, let me be perfectly clear about my rhetortical question there. You claim that those men are atypical, and better to have a space to vent, despite crying about misandry and claiming all women are sluts and liars, etc. Yet when a woman cries about her rape, even if she’s not saying all men are evil, she is a horrible factor that causing oppression to men.
And the fact that the biggest MRA website is full of these supposedly ‘atypical’ MRA commenters, while larger feminist sites like the one I pointed out have comments sections that are considerably more calm, and articles that do not claim all men are liars and whores. Yet we’re part of this giant false-rape culture.
Not to mention this site right here, where quite a few feminists visit, is somehow not going gangbusters about all the whorish and rapey men. You still have yet to find me a comment on here saying all men are rapists, yet I found, in less then a minute, a post on that article claiming all men are faslely accused of rape.
I’m sorry Laura, that’s awful. I believe you.
“Is there now a man alive who has not at some point been threatened with a Rape or sexual-misconduct allegation?”
Yes. Virtually every man I know, at least.
“As you know, the MM are anti false allegations, removing the presumption of innocence and the crimes of a minority being used to stereotype and create hatred for political gain as well as advocating for male victims.”
That sounds…reasonable. I wish more MRAs had given me that impression. I’d be especially interested to see the MRM campaigns/support for male victims, I think that’s a really important cause as men are much less likely to report 🙂
“As you know, the MM are anti false allegations, removing the presumption of innocence and the crimes of a minority being used to stereotype and create hatred for political gain as well as advocating for male victims.”
This would be fine, if so many MRAs weren’t using this, like you are, to demonize feminists and women. This is not a zero-sum game. Removing false allegations, as I’ve pointed out, also helps feminism. Also, ‘crimes of a minority’ depends on how you mean it. If you mean minority of accused, not going to fly. If you mean minority of men, sure. Current count that I saw, at highest, by feminist sources is lower then 1 in 12 men are rapists.
And advocating for male victims of abuse and sexual assault is a great and worthy endeavor. But it becomes not so when it’s coupled to cries against feminism for women’s shelters. The problem here is not the ideological goals in that respect. It is the particular method in which many MRAs act.
The problem as always is the massively broad definition of rape supported by the State. There is only one type of rape, there is no “grey area.”
The worst and most popular being, “she was drinking” therefore rape has occured. I of course don’t mean being unconcious.
If a woman has been drinking any amount and she makes a concious choice and consents to sex she can later claim he raped her. If she makes a concious choice after drinking to drive and gets into an accident is “he” culpable? If she makes a concious choice after drinking to walk and falls and injures herself is “he” culpable? If she makes a concious choice after drinking to shoplift is “he” culpable?
So if they were both drinking why is “he” culpable for “her” actions if they have sex? Should “he” have known better while “she” didn’t have to know better? “She” is free to engange in sexual relations while they were both drinking, while “he” is liable for both of their actions by “law.”
So when I say feminism is a Marxist hate movement designed to transfer all social, economic and political power from men to women with the State as the ultimate authority, this is just one more example. “His” social power to simply have sex and not be accused of some hideous crime doesn’t exist. It is contingent upon “her feelings” at a later date. Her “consent” can be withdrawn after the fact. “His” economic power is used to defend himself in court. “His” political power has been handed over to the “State” to decide his fate.
Is this man guilty or is this woman a liar? I have no idea. What I do know is that feminists will clamor to have more “laws” written. The grievance industry will grow and the State will gain more power.
Still on moderation am I? Ahh well, I am the “bad man.”
Nobby
You mentioned “rape culture”, which is a political construct and fear mongering tool – feminism and feminists are the most active abuse and rape culture in our society.
Victims are deemed worthy or unworthy, accepted or turned away on the basis of gender. Abusers of one gender are protected, and abusers of another are used to stereotype the whole gender, politicize and make money, and stereotype society itself.
Abuse itself is stereotyped as gendered. Thats the active abuse culture in our society, feminism. Feminists supporting a false accuser that went on to child abuse and murder without feeling any sort of need to apologize – thats what an abuse culture looks like.
Calls against the feminist abuse culture are justified, as abuse victim shouldn’t be brushed under the carpet and abusers shouldn’t be protected because they aren’t politically useful.
Calls against the feminist system be it legal or support that includes or excludes victims on the basis of their gander are justified.
Calls against the mass false allegations of rape and abuse that feminism uses to fear monger, raise money and votes and spread hate are justified.
Calls to protect society from forces that would further remove the presumption of innocence and so turn the west into an Iran or China are justified.
“by feminist sources is lower then 1 in 12 men are rapists”
If its a feminist source, its likely a false allegation about rape. There is a study that shoes that 4 men out of 100 will use some form of coercion that I cant lay my hand on right now. And women rape men as often as men rape women according to a number of large studies.
The feminist movement relies heavily on false accusations and lies about rape.
Men’s Reports of Nonconsensual Sexual Interactions with Women: Prevalence and Impact
Department of Psychology, University of Potsdam, Potsdam, Germany
Published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior
Two studies examined the prevalence and emotional impact of men’s nonconsensual sexual interactions with women. The first study included a sample of 247 heterosexual men with a mean age of 18.3 years. The second study was a replication with a sample of 153 heterosexual men with a mean age of 22.3 years. All respondents completed a measure of nonconsensual sexual interactions including the use of three aggressive strategies (physical force, exploitation of the man’s incapacitated state, and verbal pressure) and three forms of unwanted sexual contact (kissing/petting, sexual intercourse, and oral sex). In addition, the relationship to the female initiator was explored. For each type of nonconsensual sexual interaction, respondents indicated the affective impact of the experience. In Study 1, 25.1% of respondents reported at least one incident of nonconsensual sex with a woman and 23.9% reported attempts by women to make them engage in nonconsensual sexual activity. In Study 2, the overall prevalence rate for completed nonconsensual sexual interactions was 30.1%, and 23.5% of the men reported attempts at making them engage in nonconsensual sex. In both samples, exploiting the man’s inability to offer resistance was the most frequently reported aggressive strategy. Kissing/petting was the most frequently reported unwanted sexual activity, followed by sexual intercourse and oral sex. Prevalence rates were higher for nonconsensual sex with an (ex-)partner or friend than for nonconsensual sex with an unknown women. Ratings of affective impact revealed that men rated their nonconsensual experiences as moderately upsetting. The findings are discussed in the light of previous studies on men’s unwanted sexual experiences and the extant literature on women’s nonconsensual sexual interactions with men.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/t88035m5295g6751/
Predictors of Sexual Coercion AgainstWomen and Men:
A Multilevel, Multinational Study of University Students
Denise A. Hines
http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/ID45-PR45.pdf
Given that feminism is responsible for such an output of false allegations, lies and fear mongering surrounding rape, attacking it is morally correct.
In fact I do know one man who has been falsely accused of rape. He was jailed, but the charge was dropped for lack of evidence before it was brought to court. Somehow he has managed to retain the belief that not all rape accusations are false. Amazing, isn’t it?
It’s really too bad that our culture supports MRAs and misogynists like Eoghan so much when they falsely assume that their attitudes are representative of all men. If our culture wasn’t a culture that tolerates rape, they would find themselves much more on the fringe. As it is, our culture is shifting towards treating rape as the crime that it is, and so they are reacting as they find themselves being pushed closer and closer to the margins.
Ah screw it. I don’t have time to correct that post. Serves me right for attempting html tags on my break.