Some highlights, by which I mean lowlights, of a recent discussion on The Spearhead of IMF head Dominique Strauss-Kahn’s arrest on sexual assault charges. The Spearheaders, naturally, have some unique and interesting perspectives on the case:
Black women (like the accuser) are all a bunch of liars. Run away!
Reality May 18, 2011 at 11:04
I knew it was going to be a black woman- I suspected from the second I heard about this. Crystal Magnum anyone? Don’t want to make this a racial issue- but how can you avoid it? You take 5 ounces of Female/Feminist hate and deception, add 8 ounces of the stereotypical black thing of always sniffing around for a lawsuit, stir .. and you have more than enough reason to avoid black women even more vigorously than women in general.
The case is somehow all about how badly “beta” men are discriminated against by evil women:
Commander Shepard May 18, 2011 at 11:53
Typically false rape allegations are made when a woman realizes she’s slept with a beta but doesn’t want her rep taking a hit and wants to avoid feeling like crap (betas are icky) my gut tells me either this is a totally fabricated set up (politically motivated) or Strauss-Kahn is getting a lesson in how betas have to apologize everyday for their existence.
She’s accusing him because she’s got AIDS and therefore (?) wants to make a quick buck, ethics be damned:
Avenger May 18, 2011 at 18:55 …
Since she has AIDS she knows that an infection could take her out at any time and she has a teenage daughter. A person like this will certainly not think like a normal person and may very well do something for a lump sum of cash since she has nothing to lose and may have some resentment towards men and doesn’t care what happens to this one guy. She also may be thinking that if she dies at least her daughter will have the money. This is not someone I would trust. …
I predict that Strauss will be released on bail tomorrow. He’ll pay the female’s lawyer some money and then the whole thing will just fade away.
He’s probably innocent, but he’s a white-hating Commie Jew bastard, so ha ha:
goldenfetus May 18, 2011 at 09:57
Libertarian here. I doubt this guy is guilty. Seems unlikely, yet possible. But as observed, this guy is a White-hating elite Marxist Jew. So while I agree that political disagreement is not sufficient grounds for wishing false-rape accusation/conviction on him, I submit that his hostility toward my people coupled with his general evil is enough to justify the enjoyment of his suffering. We can’t forget that his politics are what makes this possible in the first place, or ignore the ‘reap what you sow’ component here.
As a white guy, I’d like to say that goldenfetus does not in fact speak for “my people.”
And before anyone steps in to complain that I’ve picked the “outliers” in the discussions, the fanatics whose opinions aren’t shared by the MRA masses, I will note that (as is generally the case with Spearhead comments I quote) all of the comments here have gotten numerous upvotes from Spearhead readers, and only a handful of downvotes, if any. In other words, they represent something close to the Spearhead conventional wisdom. (And by “wisdom” here I mean “offensive idiocy.”)
@Kendra Thanks, I was thinking of making that point, too, but you saved me the trouble 🙂
Exactly, Kendra (and Xtra). If presumption of innocence in a court of law is a privilege extended only to some people, then it’s meaningless.
Kendra.
“The MRA’s are already accusing the alleged victim in the DSK case of being a liar”.
The Spearhead is saying that the woman is likely telling the truth,
http://www.the-spearhead.com/2011/05/20/slate-france-defends-decision-to-publish-alleged-strauss-khan-victims-name/
“Why isn’t she considered innocent until proven guilty of making a false allegation?”
Because there are so many false accusations of or about rape. Look at your own statement about what MRA’s are saying, its a falsehood. This is why there is suspicion surrounding women and rape, the high false reporting rape and the incessant feminist lies and false accusations of and about rape. This look at this one thread and count all the lies. Its a girl who cried wolf situation.
lol: “Are alleging that mens rights activists are interested in a free pass to rape as opposed to standards of evidence in line with other crimes and the standard human right of innocent until proven guilty?”
If he won’t, I will. The MRA movement has consistently made “it’s a woman, she’s a criminal” statements about people who have not even been charged with a crime. They keep a double standard, specifically on the subject of rape. That standard seems to be… “If she wasn’t beaten senseless from trying to denfend herself, then it can’t be considered rape. If he doesn’t go to the police; before he’s accused by a woman, the charge is false.”
Pretty much the only time I can see them saying a rape occurs is when some member of a woman’s family goes and beats the crap out of someone (or kills them) “protecting” their “women”. That’s ok.
So yeah, I think mens rights activists (by and large) are interested in giving a free pass to rapists.
Tofu
can you confirm that you are alleging that mens rights activists are campaigning for in a free pass to rape as opposed to standards of evidence in line with other crimes and the standard human right of innocent until proven guilty and recognition of false accusation?
Too many lies about rape just fall out of the mouths of many american feminists.
A Pecunium, we must have posted at the same time.
Can you back that litany of allegations and lies about rape?
lol, are you going to answer me or not?
lol: I guess what I have to say about the top post is 1: Good for him, and 2: he just goes to show that Not All MRAs Are Like That.
Because I read the comments,and looked at the up/downvotes.
This one isn’t the worst of them, nor the one with the least upvotes;
An excerpt:
*IF* DSK had considerably overstepped the bounds of extravagant sexual behaviour and strayed into the realms of non consent and rape with some twenty tiers down skank, what would his normal reaction be? what would the skanks normal reaction be?
He’d open his wallet….
And as someone else said, as usual in these cases nowadays as soon as a man is named as a potential rapist all the fucking wimminz come out of the woodwork and start making historical allegations dating back years and even decades, and these get published too, in DELIBERATE character assassination, to sell the rapist story.
Adolf Hitler was probably a complete cunt, but that does not make it one iota more likely that he ever raped anyone.
Speaking as a falsely accused rapist, we all have one thing in common, “why would I rape this bitch or anyone else when I can get the exact same thing for free anywhere else?”
DSK was used to dropping two or three THOUSAND bucks on a whore for a fuck, and it was “pin money” to him…. this is like the chairman of a road haulage company being accused of driving away from a gas station without paying…. it doesn’t make fucking sense.
Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1
This was the only comment I could find that was at all supportive of the OP:
The African woman had no idea about any of this and had nothing to hide. If she were suspect NYPD would have sniffed it out. Let the deluded, obsessed, undisciplined old alpha male rot in prison. He was a disgusting pig, with power.
Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
So I don’t really think you can say the MRA movement is supporting the idea that there might be a case here.
First, he completely and utterly misses the point that the anonmyity is for the purpose of protecting the accuser. Public opinion doesn’t matter as far as the courts decision, and so an argment that reads ‘Sure, she may get attacked by a crazy DSK supporter, but I like her more now!” completely misses the point. But besides that it’s not “wimmens are evil!” so, you know, point in favor. But lets look at the comments:
11 upvotes, one downvote: “She may have contracted AIDS from her deceased husband or some other man and has a underlying hatred for all men.”
13 upvotes, 0 downvotes: “At the same time the State (to please women) has extended the definition of Rape and sexual assault to include sex between husband and wife and imprisons people for even so much as looking at a woman (whilst tossing men the bone of homo-sexuality as a compensation). It is now therefore men (like Strauss-Khan) who need protection from the increasing spurious allegations of sexual misconduct.”
10 upvotes, 1 downvote: “Speaking as a falsely accused rapist, we all have one thing in common, “why would I rape this bitch or anyone else when I can get the exact same thing for free anywhere else?””
8 upvotes, 0 downvotes: “Is there now a man alive who has not at some point been threatened with a Rape or sexual-misconduct allegation? You must either conclude that all men are criminals, or that they are perfectly normal and that it is women who deliberately or otherwise are living in a sexual fantasy world of their own creation. (Believe me ladies the majority of you – at least 99% – are of no sexual interest to me atall).”
I will admit the highest upvoted one (14:0) is actually fairly decent. But that is the only one.
Now please find me a single comment here saying that all men are living in a fantasy world or, more easily, that DSK is obviously lying.
Yeah, lol (Eoghan), I’m going to stick with my previous characterization of you as self-characterized martyr, equating being called names with being criminally accused of rape. You only started backpedaling after you were called on it. Someone is being dishonest here, and it’s not me.
Medium Dave
I’m not him, and its not exactly a secret that the spearhead comments section can be a hot bed of abused and very angry men, their stories occasionally do come out, from sexual abuse by mothers to false allegations and child kidnapping and financial ruin via the courts by spouces, its also no secret that element of that comments section represents an extreme minority. Everyone here knows that, the blog owner knows that, you all just like to pretend otherwise.
The Spearhead is a good publication, and its just over taken Feministing in terms of views, there is no where for these men to go for help, as you and the other feminists here know only too well, if a man is abused by a woman, and is angry and speaks out, he is likely to be mocked and labelled a rapist or abuser, I’d rather see them venting there, than snapping and turning a gun on themselves.
And yet women who are raped aren’t allowed to speak out?
Is there now a man alive who has not at some point been threatened with a Rape or sexual-misconduct allegation?M/i>
Why, yes. Millions, probably. Even accounting for hyperbole, what an astonishing statement that is. What kind of mental bizarro-world must “Opus” live in? Yet notice, no one at the Spearhead argues with him.
Thats fine Captain Bathrobe.
Stand by your claim that feminist false accusations of or about rape or abuse are not a false accusations of or about rape or abuse.
Here’s the thing: We don’t know that it’s a minority. And considering how little effort it takes to up or downvote a comment, I’m going to consider those ratings more representative. And when the people who post articles are also known to fly off the handle at women, and be supported, it doesn’t look good. And again, it doesn’t cover the fact that the entire point behind anonymity is the accusers physical protection. He just completely ignores that in the article.
Medium Dave
Patriarchal theory states that all men oppress all women under the threat of violence and rape.
Thats a pretty compressive mass false accusation of rape and abuse.
Only today was this mass false allegation of rape by a feminist published on mens rights reddit.
https://evebitfirst.wordpress.com/2011/05/18/a-man-is-a-rape-supporter-if/
Stand by your claim that feminist false accusations of or about rape or abuse are not a false accusations of or about rape or abuse.
Um…OK. If made such a claim, I would stand by it. Once again, you seem to be conflating internet name-calling with something more sinister, being called a “rape apologist” with being accused of rape. When people have repeatedly called you on it, you denied you conflated the two, then went back to conflating the two. Whatever keeps you off the street, I suppose, but it’s not really a coherent argument.
Or maybe you’re just doing some sort of 13-dimensional meta-troll that only Scott Adams would understand. Yeah, I’d go with that one if I were you.
Nobby.
Even if a comment gets 64 up votes, its still a minority and the bulk of mras would rather that commentary wasn’t there in the first place and will have little to do with the comments section of the spearhead.
And anyway, as I said, abused men are better of venting there than snapping else where.
Captain Bathrobe
Its more likely that you dont want to face up to the fact the feminist over reliance on making false allegations about rape and abuse is sinister in itself, going to the police and following through and destroying the target is of course more sinister, but it doesn’t make the incessant false allegations and lies about rape and abuse that feminists seem to make and tell, any less sinister.
How do you know about the bulk of MRAs, lol? where are they all saying that it shouldn’t be there? Cause I can’t see anyone arguing against the things being said.
Patriarchal theory doesn’t state that. Sorry, linking to a random small blog most of us have never heard of (as opposed to spearhead which, as you say, is quite popular these days) does not an argument make. Patriarchy is generally agreed to mean, from what i’ve seen (other feminists please correct me if this is wrong), a system of oppression which mainly benefits men. It can be held up my anyone, and is by many women, but it still benefits men the most. This does not mean there are not disadvantages to men, and this does not mean all men uphold it. But a system of oppression that benefits one more is going to tend to be upheld by the benefiting party.
Also, considering W.F. Price also said, about the guy who battered his wife after a child custody case, “Obviously, he attacked the woman because he felt the order was unfair, and he reacted as warriors sometimes do in response to provocation — violently.” the fact that a female accuser in a case must sometimes be concerned for her safety is obviously not unknown to him, actually considered quite natural, and so makes his argument even weaker.
Thank you, lol. I appreciate your responding. I have an eye for repeated phrases, as does Futrelle (no, we’re not the same person either).
But I reject your assertions. There are organizations, such as Male Survivor and Pandora’s Project which offer help to male victims without engaging in woman-blaming. Pandora’s project has a message board when men can share their stories… it is not true that places like the Spearhead are the only place they can turn.
If in fact the angry men at the Spearhead have suffered from female abuse, well, they have my sympathy, but they’re not going to get better that way. Encouraging them to wallow in bitterness and rage is a dead end… they will not heal.
Rather, I think that the Spearhead is a place for men who are enraged that they can’t control women. Times have changed. They need to get over it.
lol, You said it was a falsehood when I stated that MRA’s are calling DSK’s accuser a liar. When Nobby showed you a list of comments from the very article you linked for me, it proved that Spearhead readers are calling the accuser a liar based on nothing at all. They are claiming it is some political conspiracy using less evidence than the conspiracy theorists that say the lunar landing was staged.
Even if those commenters have been personally damaged in their lives, that does not excuse them of making the outrageous, vile statements they made. They may describe it as venting, but I call it hate speech, along the same lines as those people in the Westboro Baptist Church. Look at the number of upvotes given the statements in Nobby’s post. Those opinions must be popular at the Spearhead because people are upvoting them rather than calling them out on their misogyny.
W.F. Price was the only one who didn’t accuse the woman of being a liar, even though he wrote the entire post to be against rape shield laws. Most of his commenters said the woman was lying, or the story was fishy. Read Avenger’s statement
“Perhaps Strauss did come out of the shower naked and put his arm around her or something. She gets all upset due to her muslim culture and the fact that she may have contracted AIDS from some illicit activity and runs to tell the manager.When he asks he why she’s so upset she tells him about the naked man but is now feeling that she looks stupid to get upset over something so trivial so in true female fashion to save face adds that the guy also forced her to give him a bj. ”
I stand by my original statement that the MRA’s are in fact accusing the woman of lying without a shred of evidence to back up their claims.
Also, I can sit here and cry about how MRAs are making up lies about, oh, the burglary false accusation rate. It’s sinister, i tell you! All my buddies say it’s happening! doesn’t matter I don’t have links to back it up.
Also, absolutely no mention of the fact that false allegations hurt feminism too!. Every allegation that is proven false makes it harder for women to come forward with real rape stories, and harder to put a real rapist in jail.
Abused men are better realizing that what happened to them was the result of one bad women; and just because some women are abusers, doesn’t mean that all of them are.
Look at what you’re arguing, really look at it.
You get a group of men who have suffered abuse at the hands of women, who then conclude that women as a gender must be shallow, callous, evil and naturally inclined to abuse. But then you turn around, and when you see abused women or their advocates trying to raise awareness or somehow help decrease the instances of abuse of women, all of a sudden it’s a feminist conspiracy out to criminalize all male behavior and it must mean that feminists and abuse advocates all hate men.
If you defend places like the Spearhead with the argument that being the victim of woman-on-man abuse entitles one to be an anti-woman sexist, then you must therefore accept that being the victim of man-on-woman abuse entitles one to be anti-man sexist. You can’t have it both ways. Or is it that women aren’t allowed to be angry like men are, or that every woman who has claimed to be abused is lying?
Lol: There was a recent article on AVFM about a regular here who made false allegations of rape against Paul Elam and the Welmer Price of the Spearhead, by name ..
Is anyone else familiar with the post lol’s talking about? If I remember correctly, a Manboobz commenter said something like: certain things that Mr. Elam had said made him sound like a rapist. It was … not the best-thought-out comment, perhaps, but it wasn’t an accusation. It was an insinuation. In response, Mr. Elam did what any normal, stable MRA would do … he tracked the commenter down and posted her name, photo, phone number, and email on his site, and encouraged his readers to harass her. It’s a really weird story, and I think pretty illuminating as well.
Look it up, though. I may not have gotten all the specifics right. Perhaps lol will provide a link.
Re. this: I’d rather see them venting there, than snapping and turning a gun on themselves.
Not the only two options. And the Spearhead commentariat is not made up, either solely or primarily, of men abused by women. (Unless we’re talking about “abused” men like MRAL, who is frequently “spit on,” in which case, I’d say they need help in other ways, and not encouragement in feeling more paranoid.) Anyway, the weird thing is, most feminist blogs are filled with women (and men) who have been abused and raped, gone through difficult divorces, etc., and you really don’t see the kind of palpable hatred for men in those blogs as you for for women at MRM blogs. You really don’t. You might see someone expressing fear or hatred for their abuser, or for rape culture, or contempt for Republican policies or politicians, but unending, concrete hatred for all men? Only at very specific blogs do you find that; generally, you’re more likely to find compassion for men — especially male victims of DV, rape, gay bashing, poverty, etc.
Here’s a question: Why is the Spearhead always called a “publication” by its followers, and its stories “articles,” and not a blog with blog posts? I’ve always wondered that.