As I’ve pointed out before, the vast majority of Men’s Rights Activists aren’t really activists at all, if by “activists” you mean people who occasionally get off their asses and try to engage in political activity in the real world. As I put in in my piece for the Good Men Project on misogyny in the Men’s Rights movement,
Men’s rights activists aren’t much like any other activists I’ve ever run across. For one thing, for supposed activists they are almost completely inactive. Sure, they complain endlessly about things they see as terrible injustices against men. They just don’t do anything about them. While some of those who consider themselves fathers’ rights activists—a slightly different breed from your garden-variety MRAs—try to influence laws and legislatures, MRAs do little more than cultivate their resentments.
MRAs seem to be good at one thing, and one thing only: posting angry comments on websites, whether their own or on those of their many enemies – whether that’s on blogs like this one or in the comments section on various mainstream media sites they consider “misandrist.” (Actually: that’s not entirely fair – on a few occasions, MRAs have been moved to make threatening phone calls as well.) They don’t raise money for anything but their own web sites and their pet projects. They don’t organize demonstrations that involve more than a tiny handful of people. Like, for example, this one, involving one dude dressed like Batman who climbed up onto a highway sign:
Or this one, which involved a dude dressed up as Batman and a dude dressed up as Robin, climbing up on a bridge.
If your protests typically involve fewer people than, say, the line of people waiting to use the Redbox video rental kiosk outside your local supermarket on a Friday night, I think it’s safe to say that yours is not a mass movement, at least not yet.
Am I being unfair in demanding MRAs actually, literally,get off their asses before I consider them to be activists? Perhaps.
But, as it turns out, MRAs aren’t much good at sitting-on-your-ass activism either. Case in point: For quite some time – weeks? months? — MRA elder Paul Elam has been urging readers of his blog A Voice For Men to sign a petition to disbar a District Attorney he and other MRAs have decided is corrupt. But despite his repeated pleas to his readers to sign the thing, it has not yet garnered the required 1000 signatures, even though at least a few of his readers have talked about signing it more than once. [Edited to add: it has now gotten more than 1000 signaturesd.]
Today, this particular example of internet inactivism prompted Elam to lash out at his non-signing readers. Declaring himself “tired and frustrated” and “sick of this shit,” he once again begged his readers to sign. Then he went a step further, suggesting that he might limit commenting on his site to “activists that are contributing to this site in one way or another” as a way of encouraging activism and discouraging those who are “sucking up air and doing little else.”
I don’t think further exhortation on his part – or limiting the comments there to “real” activists only – is likely to make much difference. [Edited to add: Nagging a few more people to spend two minutes signing an online petition is one thing. Actually transforming them into real activists is another.] Elam is running up against the inherent paradox of Men’s Rights “activism” – the fact that most of those complaining the most about alleged injustices against men are not in fact interested in changing anything. Their “activism,” as it were, is little more than an excuse to wallow in their own bitterness, and to blame others for their own problems.
If MRAs really cared about domestic violence against men – as opposed to using the issue as a rhetorical weapon against feminists – they would be raising money and devoting their time to actually building shelters, like the (mostly) women who built the first shelters decades ago, and the (mostly) women who keep these shelters going today. If MRAs were really interested in stopping prison rape, instead of simply complaining about it, they’d be donating money to or working with the advocacy group Just Detention or other groups concerned about the treatment of prisoners. If they were really interested in helping those falsely accused of rape or other crimes, they’d be working with The Innocence Project or some other group fighting for the falsely accused or convicted. Or they would be starting real organizations of their own.
But that’s not, at heart, what the MRM is about. For all but a tiny handful of real activists, it’s not about changing the world. It’s about creating a space where men can kvetch and blame and cultivate their own sense of martyrdom. Actually trying to change the real world would involve , well, going out into the real world, a place where their assertions about the alleged oppression of men are seen as the nonsense they are, a place where their bitterness and hatred of women is seen as bitterness and hatred rather than the righteous anger they like to imagine that it is.
When MRAs do venture out of their self-created bubble they tend to either make fools of themselves – like Batman on the highway sign in the video above – or to reveal themselves to be the angry fanatics they are. Elam, for his part, sometimes even has trouble making his case in the relatively sympathetic environment of the Men’s Rights subreddit on Reddit, and is quickly reduced to sputtering rage when anyone disagrees with him. In the end, sputtering rage seems to be what the MRM is really all about.
Oh, I should just post what he sent me on FB… so creepy… and then, I really have no idea how he ended up where I was, or how he knew it was me. He asked me what my ‘moniker’ on FB was. Then I knew it was him, Ron! Agh! I sort of shiver when I think of it. OK, here. Enjoy. I’ll post the exchange. Then, after this, like 3 days later, he approached me.
‘Snapping at someone is now the first stage of abuse? That’s new to me, since my experience has always been that women are the verbal abusers in our society (owing to the physical differential). Of course, many sociologists writing for Disinfo point out that women are equal the abusers as men in society, but it is vastly under reported (no man would report that). Wendy Kaminer, Laura Kipnis and even Naomi Klein say we need to get beyond the ‘victim’ and identity politics of third wave feminism, which has set a movement of empowerment back by 3 or 4 decades. Women have all the power now in society. No need for them to act like all the asshole men through the centuries and abuse it through the criminal justice system. It’s as bad as a little girl in the back seat of a car saying her brother looked at her and calling it a crime.
Ron’
Since I know not to engage this kind of shit (right?):
‘Wow, you must be joking… you cannot be fucking serious. Buh bye.’
Then I blocked him. I did share it with a good friend, and reported him for being such a psycho. If I ever see him again, and he touches me, I will kick his ass.
What else do you want to know? 😛
Oh yeah- I told him to see a dentist because his breath was like a squirrel died in his throat. Death breath, really bad. I was trying to offer some feedback…? As I ran out the back door…?
That’s the reason why these guys invade blogs/forums about dating or blogs/forums against them to make shit. For them activism mean bitching on the net and trolling. Two years ago, there was a thread about an MRA in Somethingawful and the guy was bragging about being one of the biggest internet troll.
I’m always fascinated by the tiny proportion of MRA discussions that are about, you know, men. What is the ratio of “men are X” or “men deserve X” to “women are X” and “women don’t deserve X?”
‘Cause it’s usually really, really low. Arguments with MRAs always seem to come around to talking about women the entire time and debating the nature and rights of women. It’s almost impossible to find a statement about men that stands alone without being couched in “AS OPPOSED TO THOSE EVIL WOMEN” invective. A lot of them don’t even seem to like men or particularly care what happens to any men other than themselves.
I have yet to find a discussion of, say, domestic abuse of men that centers on rescuing and sheltering the victims and helping them rebuild their lives and psyches. It only ever gets brought up as a counterpoint to women talking about domestic violence or as a way to accuse women of all being abusive, but when it comes to showing concern for the actual men being harmed… it’s hard to get even lip service out of these dudes.
Holly, that’s absolutely it. It’s all about demonizing women. False rape accusations is another good example. MRAs love going on and on about how false accusers should go to jail for as long as rapists would have, etc etc, but you never hear any discussion of actually trying to help the falsely accused by working with, you know, one of the organizations out there that is devoted to this. The False Rape Society blog doesn’t even link to any of these advocacy groups.
The Kellett petition is a another good example — it stems from a case of a man that the MRAs believe has been falsely accused. But the focus of their campaign is on demonizing the female DA who prosecuted him; he’s sort of become a sideshow to that.
“But that’s not, at heart, what the MRM is about. For all but a tiny handful of real activists, it’s not about changing the world. It’s about creating a space where men can kvetch and blame and cultivate their own sense of martyrdom.” – OP
^This.
Coupled with (IMHO) the fact that most of those idiots have never suffered any of the abuses they bitch and moan about – other than rejection as a sexual partner. (Which is hardly abuse – if they made themselves more congenial and attractive they’d find some partners. Who wants to hook up with a whiny, moaning jerk who hates women?)
A great number of them whine about women but avoid relationships and marriage. Then they whine about the injustices men suffer from the institution of marriage while never having any experience themselves. They whine and moan about the injustices of child support and custody but they don’t have children. Then they whine about women having abortions at the same time they whine about women “stealing” sperm.
They aren’t activists because they don’t have any skin in the game. They just want to whine and moan about all the injustices that they’ve heard about anecdotally.
You know, it’s strange that this post is up just now because I’ve been wondering ever since I started lurking on this blog: Why don’t MRA’s seem to be actively engaged in any, you know, “activism”?
I mean, if you have objections about the way men are portrayed in sitcoms and television ads – boycott the shows! Form a group, write a press release, send it out to the media and to your already existant online communities. Boycotts have been used for decades to effect change in media and entertainment. Plan a boycott.
If you feel that Family Court laws are unfair -and we’re talking about people who compare Child Support to rape, slavery, and defended a guy who damn near killed his ex-wife in front of a judge- then put together a comprehensive list of grievances and form a protest march. If you have legitimate grievances with Family Court –and I believe that there are legitimate grievances- then talk to some lawyers about the best ways to word your desired reforms. Schedule speakers, send out press releases. Get to fucking work already.
And for the love of god, try and distance yourselves from the mentally ill within your ranks when you go about seeking national attention. Dudes showing up in Batman suits, or guys ranting and carrying signs about the need for sex-farms of 12 year olds will not help your cause. In other words, priorities, fellas. Priorities.
It’s just really gets on muy tits to see a bunch of people who call themselves activists while not do anything remotely like activism. I think you’ve built awareness – even if people disagree or consider your views risible to repugnant. The buzz is there.
You know what I think? I think that MRA’s think there above the grunt work of real activism. I think they feel it’s beneath them.
Fuckin’ typos:
“…really gets on my tits…”
“…MRA’s think they’re…”
Yeah, I’m a bit pedantic.
Wow, if you can’t get 1000 signatures you’re a political gnat.
I was impressed when the Green Party got 39,000 signatures for Rich Whitney to run for governor of IL in 2006 (I collected hundreds of those signatures myself).
Then, a couple of years later, the anti-gay-marriage people in IL collected something like 350,000 signatures for an IL constitutional amendment banning gay marriage (which thankfully didn’t go anywhere). Much more impressive numbers!
To get these kind of numbers you can’t be sitting on your ass writing internet comments. You have to *hustle*, and you have to have a petition in your hands and on your clipboards that people are willing to sign their name to.
And note that you can get 350,000 signatures and still fail to achieve what you want to achieve. At which point you have to be able to convince your (typically all-volunteer) organization to pick themselves up and go out and try again.
350,000 signatures against gay marriage doesn’t impress me that much, personally. If you want to find people who are against gay marriage, you can find thousands of them packed into the same buildings every Sunday between 8:00 and noon, depending on the building.
And occasionally you have to pay to get signatures. Here in AZ almost every Republican, regardless of how minor the office seems to pay to have their signatures collected. You can tell by checking the public record which is online. (I have yet to pay anyone and *knocks on wood* I hope I never need to.)
Well yeah, many of the things — the things that approximate actual problems — that MRAs complain about wouldn’t be that difficult to do something about if one really wanted to make a difference. Or, to be clear, it would be difficult, but not impossible, and for someone who took on these problems as their pet passions, it would be worth doing.
Think that women educating the country’s boys leads to all men’s problems? Become a teacher! Form male teacher’s support groups! Volunteer at the schools! (My dad does this, and he loves it. But then, he’s more of a mangina, if I had to guess.)
Care desperately about the plight of male victims of DV? Raise funds! Research how to start a hotline, or a safe house. Advocate for male victims, start a therapy group. Get your MSW and study how DV affects male victims.
Does feminist jurisprudence really get your goat? Go to law school! Find out more about those nasty feminist laws, and how every court always rules in favor of the woman and against the man. Once you’re a lawyer, you can start making changes, either by representing male clients, or by making policy.
Hate TV shows and commercials that make men look dumb? Write the networks that show them. Start a petition. Or a boycott! Tell your friends not to watch these shows or buy these products until they start advertising with non-buffoonish men. Write letters to the newspaper. Form an action group. Take to the streets!
I can only think that the reason these things never happen is because (1) these things aren’t really problems, or at least not in the way that MRAs believe they are, and (2) if they really started researching these issues, and not just throwing out “statements” of “fact” in the Spearhead forums or whatever, they would realize that most of the shit they’ve swallowed as fact from other Spearhead commenters is simply not true. Oh: also they’d have to stop using hateful misogynistic screaming as their primary mode of communication, or risk not being taken seriously.
Tl;dr. True MRA activism? Not gonna happen.
@David Futrelle…I thought I went over this already, you say…”Holly, that’s absolutely it. It’s all about demonizing women. False rape accusations is another good example. MRAs love going on and on about how false accusers should go to jail for as long as rapists would have, etc etc, but you never hear any discussion of actually trying to help the falsely accused by working with, you know, one of the organizations out there that is devoted to this. The False Rape Society blog doesn’t even link to any of these advocacy groups.”
If you want to say this than fine, If however I say lets not focus on prosecting “rapists,” but instead on helping the “victims” will I than be labeled a “rape apologist?”
The difference between feminism and MRAs is that feminists ally with, and are supported by the very institutions they claim they’re trying to reform.
http://www.rockefellerfoundation.org/search/?q=feminism
http://search.un.org/search?ie=utf8&site=un_org&output=xml_no_dtd&client=UN_Website_English&num=10&lr=lang_en&proxystylesheet=UN_Website_en&oe=utf8&q=feminism
http://search.usa.gov/search?query=feminism
Site #1 is the Rockefeller Foundation, the corporate/socialist arm of the banking cartel supporting feminism.
Site #2 is the UN, the world political arm supporting feminism, which the Rockefeller Foundation donated the building for the UN.
Site #3 is the US arm supporting feminism.
For each of these “official” sites you can type mens rights, where you will find the only “right” men have is to support women and expand womens rights. There are no corporate, national or internationally funded mens rights. Men have to fight individually with their own resources to achieve any parity.
Our allies are ourselves and whatever scant resources we have above maintaining enough to survive. Our enemies are the combined wealth and power of the corporations, The UN, The US Guv, the mass media and women as a unified bloc creating laws, (Title IX, AA, Quotas), ect, ect, ect. to hinder and hobble men at every turn.
Go to those sites and see that the word socialism is intrinsically liked with feminism in article after article. If you say it isn’t a zero sum game then why do these organiztions only help women. If a man starves to death or is poverty or is uneducated any less “oppressed” than a woman whose fate is the same? When they tell you stories of young pregnant girls being the norm and sold off, this isn’t true. Fathers do not allow that to happen. Ask yourselves, would your father allow that? Well neither would any other father. And if it does it is not the norm. For every girl who is pregnant and left alone, others will help her, yet a boy in these countries might be forced to kill and die. Is he less oppressed being dead. Along side of the “men” in power there are women who are just as evil and uncaring. Yet ALL aid goes only to women and girls.
Feminism is the false notion that women were oppressed in the past. For evey woman who was locked in the home, there was a man who worked horrible hours somethimes dying or being maimed to support their families. The women in those days knew they were “privileged” not oppressed. For every woman who couldn’t read there was also a man. Many men would come home from work and have his wife or even daughter read the news to him because he was illiterate. The women/girls learned to read while the men worked in many homes. There was no oppression. To say girls sexuality was “owned” by their fathers is an insult. The fathers cared about their daughters welfare and wouldn’t allow some jobless cad to treat his daughter like property and rape and leave her with children. He would only allow a man of value to marry his daughter. Yes, what fucking swine fathers are.
And do I type on blogs like this, yes. I however do donate to fathers and families, I do sign petitions. My name is out there. The folks at the top of the pyramid support feminism not because its helpful, they do it because its destructive. And they gain the power to enforce with every law feminists advocate.
The MRA menz would consider social type work and activism to be wimminz jobs. They are too busy doing all the inventing and discovering, running companies, fighting wars, contributing to science, writing philosophy, etc. Men do all the “important” stuff that holds society together, remember?
Also type in the word “women” in any of those sites and you can find out how you can help women and girls in all walks of life. Also type in “men” to see the differences. The Rockefeller Foundation is quite succinct in it’s description of men. It would appear men are evil oppressive rapists and women are helpless victims.
See how much I care. Go and donate and become activists for socialist policies that help women.
What a bunch of lazy, pathetic fucking excuses. I’ll tell you something about fathers: my father hated it when I made excuses and wouldn’t let me.
Let me see if I’m parsing you correctly NWOSlave: MRA groups don’t actually participate in real activism because all such activities and attempts are doomed to failure? The media, world governments, corporations, laws, etc. are all so stacked against you that all attempts to change/improve the existing laws and systems are utterly futile? And women wrought this complete and utter domination in the 40 or so years since mainstream, 2nd wave feminism took root in developed western nations?
Got it. So why should any young men bother listening to anything you say? What can you possibly provide them except a relatively safe space to complain?
Like I suspected, MRA’s are lazy, feckless, and think that the difficult work of activism is beneath them. I’m glad to hear that you’re putting your money where your mouth is, despite your “scant resources, and the grinding poverty of earning nearly $40,000 a year.
Christ on a cracker, am I glad that when it came time for my people to engage in activism in order to ensure my civil rights they didn’t just throw up their hands. And, fuck, people were setting dogs on them and full pressure fire houses.
I typed in men at the UN site., I’ll do the same for women. Heres is the first page headlines for men.
Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon today challenged men to champion the cause
for the empowerment of women, saying they remained “second
Nepal: UN rights office deplores appointment of man suspected of
serious crime. Jyoti Sanghera, head of the UN Office
Sign up for DESA News. Sign up for the DESA Newsletter. Growing importance
of men in families. 18 February 2011, New York. men-family
COMMISSION ON STATUS OF WOMEN TO FOCUS ON SHARING DUTIES
BETWEEN MEN, WOMEN, INCLUDING CAREGIVING FOR HIV/AIDS
Do Not Sit Back, Unite to Change Practices, Attitudes, Secretary-General Urges
as He Launches Network of Men Leaders to End Violence against
of a country, the welfare of the world and the cause of peace require the
maximum participation of women on equal terms with men in all fields
decision: should they lock all these young men away for life? Or should they
attempt … MEN IMPRISONED MEN PUSHING WEAPON ON TRUCK
TRIBAL MEN DANCING MEN PLAYING BOARD GAME WOMAN SERVES
FOOD TO MEN INSIDE A SHADE … NOLIA SERVING FOOD TO MEN
Skip navigation. Welcome to the United Nations. It’s your world. UN Search
That is why I have created the Men Leaders’ Network because I believe that
unless you change mentality and behaviour of men it will be very
Now for women in the UN
Women. … “UN Women” merges four UN agencies and offices into one.
On 2 July 2010, the United Nations General Assembly
WomenWatch: Feature on Women with Disabilities. Navigation. … Home /; Special
Features /; Women with Disabilities. Women with Disabilities
Women. … Yet women continue to face a daily struggle against violence, illiteracy
and inequality for no reason other than the fact of their gender
Directory of UN Resources on Gender and Women’s Issues. Thematic Issues
and Critical Areas of Concern > Critical Areas of Concern
Directory of UN Resources on Gender and Women’s Issues. Thematic Issues
and … Areas of Concern > Women and Environment.
Audiovisual Centre. UN Women Executive Director Michelle Bachelet on the
International Women’s Day Centennial. … Beyond UN Women.
Population and Women Programme. The Women and Population portfolio
is comprised of 62 ongoing projects implemented
Women with Disabilities Fact Sheet. About girls and women with disabilities. …
Read the Women with Disabilities Factsheet in PDF.
A lasting peace cannot be established without the equal participation of women
and men and the inclusion of gender perspectives in both
Advancement of Women. Advancement of Women. Peace and Security;
Development; Human Rights; … Stop Rape Now; Women, Peace and Security.
In all cases, either women are oppressed by men, men are evil, men aren’t helping enough, men are oppressors, or women suffer worse than men. This is the UNs official words on the matter.
You can also do this for the Rockefeller Foundation or the US site.
It would appear men are indeed the Bourgeios Oppressor class and women are the peasant victim class worldwide.
Men are imperfect women, men are broken.
Man = Bad
Woman = Good
Well according to the UN, US, Rockefeller Foundation and Mass Media anyway. Yet somehow I have more “power” and “privilege” than this united social, economic and political bloc.
Perhaps I’ll run out to the next “slut rally” to support women for being oppressed. Oh such a pressing problem.
I think that many of the MRAs are actually afraid of expressing their views publicly. When fringe groups are exposed to the light of day, they lose momentum. Instead, they do best when they fester unnoticed by mainstream society. Groups like the Spearhead and A Voice for Men appeal to bullies, and bullies only like to pick on smaller, weaker people. They don’t like to be challenged, so they would be afraid to march in the streets or spew their hate speech in the mainstream media. The Internet gives them an avenue to express their hate with anonymity, surrounded only by like minded men. I would be entertained, though, to see the most extreme members on a talk show like Maury Povich.
@Nobinayamu…As I made clear I do donate as much time, effort and resources as I am able to. Yours is “given” by the corpoarate, UN, US, media complex.
Of course I also “give” to every law and organizasion that is detrimental to me. Thats where the vast majority of my taxes goes. If I refuse to pay into this “fund” I will be gunned down in a hail of bullets that would make Rambo look like a kiddies cartoon.
Hmm. Just a thought, NWOslave, but maybe your results point to user error and not actual proof that the UN does nothing for men. Unless you think that working on, funding, and researching issues like land mines, the floods in Pakistan, UNICEF, climate change, fighting hunger worldwide, the Libya protests and violence, flooding and Namibia and Bolivia, peacekeeping efforts in Central Africa, rights for Palestinians, etc. have nothing to offer men.
And yes, I can see that you think it’s a shame that some of the U.N.’s many efforts are directed specifically at women, under groups that have the word “women” right in their names. I think it’s a shame that women around the world have specifically been singled out for especially bad treatment, so that special efforts need be made to deal with those issues.
(Sorry for the html fail in my last post.) [I fixed it –DF]
NWOslave, I agree that a problem is evident in the disparity that occurs when you search the U.N. for women and for men. If men were not assumed to be the default and women the other then the searches would be more evenly distributed. This is not something that can be accomplished by taking an adversarial approach to the problem of global gender disparity, but by working towards a world where gender parity is assumed. Feminists have, and will continue to tell you that they do not seen men as the enemy, but it is up to you to hear and understand. If you do then you can make common cause with them to work to end what social and legal discrimination men do in fact face.
As for the evils of false conviction and prison rape, David has pointed you to two organizations working against these evils. Will you consider donating time or money to either or both?
Of course I also “give” to every law and organizasion that is detrimental to me. Thats where the vast majority of my taxes goes. If I refuse to pay into this “fund” I will be gunned down in a hail of bullets that would make Rambo look like a kiddies cartoon.
You’re a scream. So you really think that if you refuse to pay taxes you’re going to die in a hail of bullets?!? [snort]
NWO – Fine, let’s say that “according to the UN, US, Rockefeller Foundation and Mass Media” men = bad. Again, the question that is being presented to you is WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT IT? How are you, personally, being an activist by organizing groups, writing petitions, etc. in order to change the UN’s stance and get them to address men’s rights on the same level as women’s rights?